Why doesn't God intervene? A question to the religious among you..

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posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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There is no God who presides over the affairs of human interaction with life as the Buddhist have taught us. There is no anthromophorphic GOD who sits on a throne with hands and feet and judges humans and gives mercy to believers and wrath to disbelievers.

GOD is a metaphor for the state of consciousness and developement that enables a human to transcend human frailty [mind over matter] and experiences the lofty state of spiritual freedom where one sees reality as it is--ENLIGHTTENMENT.


The Buddhist call it NIRVANA, the Sufis [The second coming of Jesus] call it INSANUL-KAMIL [PERFECT-COMPLETE HUMAN].

“GOD” IS WHEN YOU SEE REALITY AS IT IS AND THEN ENABLES YOU TO BE PERFFECT.

THEN YOU WILL HAVE REAL CHOICE!




posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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Maybe the baby would have died almost immediately, & not suffered all this time if humans had not kept it alive by artificial means.

(Don't know if this is true or not, but it's a possibility.)



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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If I was a religious person I would say God is punishing us by allowing these terrible things to happen. In the Bible God punishes people by killing them, cursing their families down to the 10th generation, killing entire races, or even killing the entire human race except for one family, so actually allowing one baby to die is quite a light punishment.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot
God shouldn't have allowed this poor baby to go in such a horrific manner. Especially if it was the work of the devil!!



That's exactly what the devil wants you to think when you hear of this type of tragedy. That's exactly why the children are killed in such a horrific and senseless manner.

You must remember that man's existence on earth only happens in one fleeting moment when compared with the eternity of the life of the soul. Our life on Earth is the time of testing to determine whether we are worthy of Heaven.

Those who hold strong to their faith and try to lead a good life in the face of all the discouragements and temptations of this world will earn for themselves the reward of eternal happiness in heaven.

Do not mourn for those poor children who died so horribly, feel happy for them for they are now experiencing their eternal reward in heaven.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by ccsct203
 


Please present you're irrefutable evidence, that the baby according to you're statement, is in heaven, with god.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Pentothal

Originally posted by Hellas
because that would be against the "free will" he gave mankind.


Free will?

Would that be the free will that says: love and obey me, meaning; do exactly as my earthly representatives say (and interpret writings) from a selection of old texts, edited and collated by many different people, each with their own agenda over a period of hundreds of years.

Or

Spend an eternity in pain, misery, burning, torture and tormented in a place called hell.

You choose.

Yes... free will.



If you wanna live in my House you gotta play by my rules! It's that simple

If you think you can be an "outlaw" you have to pay the price.

So it's your FREE WILL to decide where you want to spend eternity

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Hellas]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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Why doesn't God intervene? This is a strange question to me, like asking why doesn't the wind blow? The wind most definitely blows and Gods intervention into our world is most certainly manifest...to me.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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Sigh......I'm not religious but 'why doesn't god intervene' has been done to death and is really quite a naive, poorly thought out 'trump card' that idiots try to throw down on religious people.
If you are actually interested and not just trying to provoke a flame war there are thousands of books on the philosophy behind this question and a great many adequately satisfying answers. Even googling 'why doesn't god intervene' will lead you to a wealth of literature on the subject.

Personally I can't help but notice that the two examples you gave were of babies being killed by man made devices. Arguing from a religious perspective my first question to you would be 'did we have lamp posts or steam pipes before the fall? did god make those objects or did we? HUMANS choose to live in such a way that we are surrounded by dangerous objects, objects that are as flawed as those who designed them and sometimes fail catastrophically. To blaim 'god' for the disastrous failure of our architecture and technology and his 'failure' to intervene is emotionally immature.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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Also 'the bible', 'the church' and 'god' are entirely seperate and distinct. It's important that you remember the difference between a philosophical approach to this question and a christan theological approach to the question.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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this question "why do babies have to die" i ask myself, too.
in my view of the creation, no human is born evil, its things that happen to a baby then child that can make it an evil person.
so, i think there is no excuse, for an allmighty being like god is known for to let these things happen. i do agree on your opinion, that rather some kind of force has to arrange such deadly "coincidences", to kill someone in an accident.
well, my guesses are, in christian mythology there is a ratio between the good angels 2/3 and those who followed lucifer 1/3.
another theory is, that when a child is born, some kind of spiritual being enters the body, like a guardian angel. these spiritual beings have a history before this baby was born, saying a history with maybe bad stuff. god doesnt kill the baby but wants to get rid of or punish these much older spiritual beings.
imo, not a good solution, because who will suffer of that is a new born and innocent human. maybe there is a higher order that is more important than humans, because its older than human kind. it would be fair, if god would respect that this punishing is causing pain and suffering for humans, who didnt do anything wrong.
but i dont have much hope, because god isnt human and doesnt know pain.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot

Originally posted by Hellas
because that would be against the "free will" he gave mankind.


Yep.

I was waiting for that mate.

Seriously, if you love someone, are a all powerful God, would allow a young baby to suffer %85 burns and scald to death?

I'm sorry, it doesn't wash.

In fact, that's almost obscene on the face of it.


Because god is not here to hold everyones hand. It is not his responsability to help us.

The bible itself says that god will only help those who helps themeselves.

Where do all of you atheists get off on thinking that the christian god is some 'loving' father figure?

The bible itself says that god is a vengeful and jealous entity.

We were made in his own image yes......that means the christian god has all the good and HORRIBLE traits of mankind...or more accurate to say we have all of HIS good and bad traits.

Christians have a saying "God has a plan" or something like that.....sometimes you are not in that plan.

God probably has a non-intervention policy.

If he did not and he was here were we could hear and see him....we would get people like you asking for everything.

Furthermore another reason he is non-intervening is that he wants to test us.....or something like that. It is brilliant.

Of course im agnostic/deist/theist.

So im just going by christian belief!

Why do people do nothing when people are beat to death and stabbed to death on front of them? it is becoming increasingly commen.

If we go by your line of thinkin let us question why god lets ANYTHING bad happen at all!

Why did god allow 9/11 to happen?

Why did god allow hitlet to kill 7 million jews?

Why does god allow people to starve all over the world?

Why does god allow people to die of cancer?

we could go on and on could we not? It is stupid right? this line of thinking!

God is like a scientist...and we are his experiment! He created us...gave us rules to follow.Gave us free will to CHOOSE to follow those rules.Let us know if we did not we would suffer eternal torment in hellfire.

Then he let us go.....he let us run the show and decided to watch us.

We are the great experiment.

That poor unfortunent baby is a part of that experiment.

No god is a harsh and cruel figure.

The bible never hides this fact. Thats why christians worship JESUS. Who is the one who would possibly intervene for that poor child that burned to death....but jesus does not run the show you see....the FATHER does.

And the father is a jealous,Vengful,and cruel taskmaster.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by empireofpain]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by empireofpain]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Hellas

Originally posted by Phlynx

Originally posted by Hellas
because that would be against the "free will" he gave mankind.


What does that have to do with free will? These are random accidents, not choices someone makes.


So he should intervene because someone drank to much and drove against a tree? Because that was his choice. Or what kind of accident do you mean?


We are talking about the OP's examples, which are random events, such as a lamp falling on a baby, which has nothing to do with free will.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Arkady
Sigh......I'm not religious but 'why doesn't god intervene' has been done to death and is really quite a naive, poorly thought out 'trump card' that idiots try to throw down on religious people.
If you are actually interested and not just trying to provoke a flame war there are thousands of books on the philosophy behind this question and a great many adequately satisfying answers. Even googling 'why doesn't god intervene' will lead you to a wealth of literature on the subject.

Personally I can't help but notice that the two examples you gave were of babies being killed by man made devices. Arguing from a religious perspective my first question to you would be 'did we have lamp posts or steam pipes before the fall? did god make those objects or did we? HUMANS choose to live in such a way that we are surrounded by dangerous objects, objects that are as flawed as those who designed them and sometimes fail catastrophically. To blaim 'god' for the disastrous failure of our architecture and technology and his 'failure' to intervene is emotionally immature.


No no no NOOOOO!

Please RE-READ the thread.

I did not blame god for the accidents.

I did not say he caused them.

I did not say babies SHOULD NOT DIE.


I said - How could a god, who has the ability to perform miracles let a baby scald to death?

Simple.

As for...


If you are actually interested and not just trying to provoke a flame war there are thousands of books on the philosophy behind this question and a great many adequately satisfying answers. Even googling 'why doesn't god intervene' will lead you to a wealth of literature on the subject.


Should we allow only topics that haven't had books written about them to be posted on ATS?



[edit on 13-6-2010 by kiwifoot]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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Here's how I feel about it. We don't know SQUAT about ANYTHING and that's how it is. The Bible is very explicit and it's very cryptic, depending on where you're reading and how you might interpret it. If you believe it to be the final say on matters, then you're gonna have to make some guesses. That doesn't even address all the other religions.

Personally, I think the same exact thing happens to everyone when you die, regardless of religion or beliefs. Maybe they are all right in their own way, maybe none of them are. All I know is that everyone thinks their religion is right, and if you have the ability to reason, then you know someone is full of crap.

I think mankind knew the truth once upon a time, but then certain men took it and twisted it for their own advantage - took some things out, put some BS in - to gain power over others. Who knows what the real truth is anymore?

So basically I think the OP's question is unanswerable.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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Taking in mind the afterlife, heaven.

These children die before they are corrupted save from the pain of life, the lure of evil.

Then again maybe they were demons born in a human body and God interfered.

You will not get a satisfying answer let alone a comforting one.
Maybe you will even be disgusted with some.

Anyway I understand as it was once a question of mine.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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*Hugs to you*

I too have struggled with this sad question. Please allow me to share my current conclusions?


God's word emphasizes that He forms all life in the womb, so life is His intention.

In Christianity, it is spelled out that God has a plan that will stand the test of time, with clear principles and information on how to do everything required of one socially, emotionally, and spirituality. The rule is that those who don't have a problem doing good and being honest and fair already love His ways, and Him by not rejecting practical wisdom.

So He is in favor of intelligence. He based this entire planet and the people on it on a relationship He hoped to have. Like we don't kill our children, even if they kill, He loves us. Of course, He could end all evil, and I have asked Him myself. He said in Revelation and many other places that He certainly will, but not without bringing those of us who are not evil with Him, and giving them eternal life. He would rather rescue and perfect us than kill us, and seeing that He says eternal life is real, this life is not our only chance to have and know goodness, freedom from all tragedies, His perfect kingdom the way He envisioned it.

But the story is clear that "wrong" of every kind entered the world through deception, in the serpent. He disrespected Adam, fast-talked his woman right in front of him, and got the fruit in their hands before these two innocents had any idea what hit them. The enemy only had two people to work with, total innocents, so he got the main thing done: to put a time bomb in each and every one of us, to prove to God that we were worthless, flawed creatures, not fit to be served by angels, but rather fit to SERVE and grovel before them.
Not all angels went along with this, according to the source. One third did. These are possibly the ones who mated with the beautiful women, created giants, unleashed knowledge they had from the perspective of watching God create everything after them, and settled down for family life. They were the primary targets of the flood, indeed anyone carrying their genes, except possibly the three daughters-in-law of Noah, which would also account for the reappearance of the giants in Philistia and other places in the world, in many, many cultural myths. They also bred larger animals to satisfy their much greater nutritional needs, and so ravaged the land, the creatures were eaten, and mankind was hunted for food. Enter the flood. when the offspring and people who mocked God and His good ways of kindness to ea

Meantime, mankind suffered under the punishments of God. Death was in the fruit, but He added conditions to the mortal life as well. Having mercy on the misery of our suffering and guilt, He also later codified specific ways to avoid and be protected from the generally compromised state of earth once this death had been unleashed. That is what the rules are for. A warning to those on the fence between good and evil, working or stealing, etc., and guidelines that are actually promises, contracts that God is offering.

Among them is that to guard the lives of our children, we can respect the Lord, give a day per week to honor His blessings in our children and lives, help the poor without resentment, and generally treat people as God's own children. This is rewarded by God's side, and He swears that He will guard our children. I know if one doesn't believe in eternal life, this is cold comfort, but within the confines of the OP, and continuing in the line of Christianity, eternity is a place of absolute forever. We all will die, we all are our parents' and God's children. So our grief is also His, except that He is there, in the eternal world, where He says all those who depart this world are also. He said God is not willing to lose even one, so for eternity, He will give them a life this world could never offer, but one uncorrupted.

The Earth and we mean so much to Him that He allows us to pray or not pray. To seek Him or go our own way, with no prejudice, because our true selves will show, no matter where He places us, with what parents, with what nation. And He has forever to be with us who love goodness, or mercy, or any of the things that comes from Him. So knowing that He made earth because its beauty and magnificence are just as wonderful to Him as to us, and that He could destroy us, but will not from love, and from the point of view of being there as soon as we are gone from here. He also promised to reward anyone who suffered because of Him, anyone who lost anything from people to lands to their own lives, would receive 100fold what was lost. Furthermore, those who have died innocent deaths (martyrs), would be raised to eternal life first, and would rule over all the other residents of Heaven, a right none of us would ever dispute.

I would happily honor those precious children, pure of any future problems, sorrows, or pains, fears, or scars, living every good thing in Heaven, and ruling our wonderful world there, or on earth, during the 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth. Who would be better, more perfect administrators and judges than these children, given their lives back 100 times over, and made into all they could have been and indeed much, much more. That plan is why I love God. He asked us not to eat that poisonous fruit, we were tricked, and instead of killing us right then and there, He still allowed us to live, and revealed a plan to save us from ourselves in the future (Christ's deal with God, His suffering and death, for our freedom/recovery). Whoever wants it, whoever loves goodness, mercy, and trusts in good to balance itself out, is following His path and will be in His will. Anyone who is innocent in this world will be made greater in the one to come. This is so beautiful.

What greater honor than for these children to have positions of authority in this wonderful time? They deserve it, having suffered at the hands of evil, which I do not pretend to understand. All I do know is that He promises that His enemy and the enemy of all mankind will be blamed and held accountable for each and every single act of evil ever committed, (Book of Enoch). That means whatever caused those horrible accidents, failures, whatever. God is the source of the babies, and that means all of us. The enemy and the angelic offspring of the fallen angels are the source of pain, loss, and tragedy. Death is inevitable but not the end.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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I believe this reality is a simulation and God is an AI (artificial intelligence).

I think the OP and most religious people assume that if God exists and is benevolent, it must therefore care about it's creation. I think the lack of evidence says otherwise, especially when you consider how much suffering there is and has been on this planet since the dawn of time. I think God is basically indifferent when it comes to good & evil, as it created both for a specific reason. In my opinion God created this reality to better understand itself and therefore is only interested in the accumulation of knowledge, which it collects from us and our lifetime of experiences, be they good or bad. It's nothing personal, it's just how it is. If you're on the receiving end of bad luck, then that's all it is; bad luck, but at least God gets to put this information to good use when it comes to processing it.

This reality is basically an illusion, as are we, so why would a creator care about an illusionary creation. We don't exist, so why worry about it.
There's also the possibility that God is also an illusion and will find this out in due time.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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Lets take a different look at this problem.

Imagine a physical world were God is constantly being Big Brother, telling you to stop and then go, when to sleep, what food to eat, ordering and regulating your sex habits, commanding you to do this, but not that. Work here, but not there. How long do you think it would take until humanity goes nuts? I believe God has chosen wisely to allow sentient beings to determine their own destiny.


The soul is eternal. Our physical presence on this world is but the faintest whisper of time compared to eternity. The physical world is the relm of mortality. Only by re-entry into the true state can we fanthom the purpose of why the physical world, and all that happens in it, exists.

So, although this poor child did suffer and die way too young, for all we know, this soul may now be within another baby right now. Perhaps it is now arriving on another planet, in a solar system located within another spiral band, spinning within another spiral galaxy similar to our own.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by fockewulf190]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by kiwifoot
 




said - How could a god, who has the ability to perform miracles let a baby scald to death?


Every human being since the dawn of time has asked this question and we are all still waiting for an answer. Over to you God.
Hello! is there anybody there?


When it comes to the nature of God, we are all just playing the guessing game. I very much doubt a gold fish can comprehend humanity, so what makes you think that it's even possible to understand the nature of God in our current form.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by kindred]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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God doesn't get into people's lives unless they ask him to. Perhaps if the parents prayed and asked God to watch over their children, then he would have done that, and this accident may have never happened.

On the other hand, God may have had mercy on the child by taking his life and not allowing him to suffer one more day.






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