Why doesn't God intervene? A question to the religious among you..

reply to post by Intuitiveaptitude2009

My conclusion is this: atheists and non believers find it hard to give up their sins just as me and you do.

Atheists don't sin so have nothing to give up in the first place, the arrogance of the religious never ceases to astound me.

I am not religious, but I will attempt to answer you question.

In the Book of Enoch, it was revealed that the crime that Watchers had committed was to change "the order of things".

Michael, probably, implored Enoch to look all around him and notice how all things that occur in the Heavens and on Earth do so according instructions.

The act of intervention by God, assuming that God could intervene to a greater extent than God is already embedded within the natural operation of the universe, would be a rejection of God, by himself, and supports the idea that both God and his creation are unsustainable and that it would be better to just let both be destroyed.

The question I would ask, why save something that just doesn't work?

I suppose that if there is a God, which there is, he could fix everything, but it would be a waste of effort because the creation would simply continue to malfunction and be a constant pain in the ass.

If it doesn't self correct, then it is not worth saving.

reply to post by bruxfinn

I suppose that if there is a God, which there is,

Why the twist ? Just say, I belief God exists. Anyway...

I think your thoughts are interesting but flawed.

The only thing if created that malfunctions is mankind. If you are religious that would make God responsible does it not ?

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by bruxfinn

 

I suppose that if there is a God, which there is,

Why the twist ? Just say, I belief God exists. Anyway...

I think your thoughts are interesting but flawed.

The only thing if created that malfunctions is mankind. If you are religious that would make God responsible does it not ?

My understanding of what God is probably differs from many but what I am saying is that if the what would be the point of fixing something that has freely chosen to be aberrant?

How many viruses will you allow to infect your operating system before you reach the conclusion that it would be far cheaper to simply purchase a new computer?

How long will you take your broken car to the mechanic before you both decide that a brand new car is needed?

While I don't think that human society is beyond repair, I just don't see why an infinite God would bother wasting his time trying to repair it.

Fix yourself or die; you are easily replaced with a new world.

I read something today that fits in here. It is talking about quantumness and how scientist can't figure out where Gamma Energy is coming from.

Science wonders where it's coming from, but it remains elusive. They realize that it's cosmic and coming from space. The truth is that it's coming from the center of the galaxy, but it appears to be coming from everywhere. That's because the main attribute of this kind of energy is that it is not 3D. Therefore, it has quantum [multidimensional] attributes that do not carry a "location" or place of origin with it. This is difficult to explain, but things in a true quantum state are everywhere, entangled in a universal soup of being "one" with everything. Therefore, you can't say "it comes from there." There is precedent in science for this, so it is not all that strange to a physicist reading this.

It's the same principle with things that are in a quantum state. They are not perceptually in any "place" and no 3D instrument is going to locate "where" they are coming from. In fact, the very idea of "where" is very funny, for "where" is just for 3D creatures.

That's why "God, where are you?" is a very cute and simple-minded question. The answer is, "Yes."

reply to post by kiwifoot

1 Corinthians 4:5
So don't get ahead of the Master and jump to conclusions with your judgments before all the evidence is in. When he comes, he will bring out in the open and place in evidence all kinds of things we never even dreamed of—inner motives and purposes and prayers. Only then will any one of us get to hear the "Well done!" of God.


Maybe God did intervene on your behalf and protected your nephew from the evil these children or adults could have done to his life some day in the future.

Things Aren't Always As They Seem

Two traveling angels stopped to spend the night in the home of a wealthy family.
The family was rude and refused to let the angels stay in the mansion's guest room. Instead the angels were given a small space in the cold basement.
As they made their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in the wall and repaired it.
When the younger angel asked why, the older angel replied, "Things aren't always what they seem."
The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but very hospitable farmer and his wife. After sharing what little food they had the couple let the angels sleep in their bed where they could have a good night's rest.
When the sun came up the next morning the angels found the farmer and his wife in tears. Their only cow, whose milk had been their sole income, lay dead in the field.
The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel how could you have let this happen? The first man had everything, yet you helped him, she accused. The second family had little but was willing to share everything, and you let the cow die.
"Things aren't always what they seem," the older angel replied.
"When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was gold stored in that hole in the wall. Since the owner was so obsessed with greed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I sealed the wall so he wouldn't find it."
"Then last night as we slept in the farmers bed, the angel of death came for his wife. I gave him the cow instead. Things aren't always what they seem."
Sometimes that is exactly what happens when things don't turn out the way they should. If you have faith, you just need to trust that every outcome is always to your advantage. You might not know it until some time later... Authors Details: Unknown

reply to post by bruxfinn


Well... Then we share these thoughts even if they are a little different.

Care to elaborate on your view of God ?

Originally posted by Danbones
That reverend Hagee dude said
Hitler was doing gods work.
Hitler even said Germany was fulfilling Christian principles
which implies he hates Jews who didn't go from Germany to Israel
but liked wealthy Jews who already lived in all the other countries
he liked George Soros for turning in Jews to Hitler- look how well rewarded he has been sinse.

A whole bunch of people in this forum maintain god is protecting Israel
which implies he hates aid workers (good Samaritans)
He doesn't want Gazan babies to have chocolate or crayons or a life

GWB maintained it was god's will to go into Iraq
Since the provisional gov which was run by Americans took away all the women's rights straight away, It implies god hates women (and the idea that they might have rights), and after seeing what the DU residue is doing to the children......

A fundie was just telling me the other day that god was destroying the Christian country of America because it had become apostate.
So I said:
so...You are telling me god is destroying America
because it's full of christians........?

Funny
Are the fundies still funding this fun?

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Danbones]

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Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by bruxfinn

 

Well... Then we share these thoughts even if they are a little different.

Care to elaborate on your view of God ?

Of course...I enjoy describing what I know to be what people call God.

Natural reality is a 4-dimensional surface (3 of Space and 1 of Time) that covers, clothes as a garment, a gravitational singularity. This gravitational singularity has the appearance of a golden bar set against a sky-blue and white background and makes the sound of a trumpet. It is a place possessing the rare characteristic of being both infinitely large and infinitely small and is beyond our dimensions of time and space and not subject to them.

The gravitational singularity I described is the ultimate source of all things; containing every instruction needed for the entirety of the universe to operate...it is our system core. It is not arbitrary, nor is it human in any way; which would make it an absurd notion that it would or could...intervene...in human affairs. Asking God to change seems to be the core desire of men who question God; in my opinion, this is not a reasonable or desireable request. While mine may seem to be a sterile and overly mechanical view of God...my basic premise is that the implication of God intervening in human affairs, would be for God to destroy his own creation.

It is this singularity that men call God and used as their inspiration in the development of their religions. Many people, both men and women and of all races and ethnicities who were taught this have demonstrated throughout history that they will use this information for their personal gain. In many cases superimposing images of themselves over the singularity; thus, claiming to be God

It also seems to have been the inspiration of our own Constitution and basic structure of Government and society. Our Bill of Rights being likened to the golden bar and the sky-blue background being like our constitution and the body of laws being the 4-dimensional that govern our society.

My description of God is not a matter of philosophy, but is in its entirety a simple description of the structure and mechanics of reality; thus, living consistently with God's directives is in no way different than the rocket scientist adhering to the laws of physics when designing spacecraft. In a similiar manner if you violate the laws of physics, the craft will probably be destroyed...if we violate the laws of God, we will be destoryed.

To illustrate my point...I can suggest that if you don't believe me then tear a whole in the fabric of space/time and take a peek...you will see God.

If this seemed rambling...I've been drinking.





[edit on 14-6-2010 by bruxfinn]

reply to post by bruxfinn


For not being "religious" that is some great insight into the way things work, but I think you left it unfinished.

You left out a vital factor, love.

Example...
If you have an old car, a classic, that you absolutely adore, would you not repeatedly and consistently try and keep it in as good of condition as you could, knowing full well that it is going to keep breaking on you?

I see God holding this world together until He creates it anew (Christian theology and scripture actually teaches that we will be on a New Earth, created perfectly such as this world was before we messed it up instead of going to the current Heaven where God resides).

Anyway. I thought you had a great post there. Just wanted to share my thoughts on it.


EDIT: Just read your most recent post... Can't say I agree with that one nearly as much. What HAVE you been drinking lol (I mean it all in good fun. This is me disagreeing with somebody who so far has been respectful so far as I can tell.)

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Mykahel]

Kinda sad nobody commented on my original post in this thread. I put quite a bit of time and thought into it. Well, time anyway. I had thought it over long ago as its a pretty common question.

You'd have to go back to like page 7 or 8 by now. Seems like forever ago, but it's just been a popular topic with a ton or posts.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by bruxfinn

 

For not being "religious" that is some great insight into the way things work, but I think you left it unfinished.

You left out a vital factor, love.

Example...
If you have an old car, a classic, that you absolutely adore, would you not repeatedly and consistently try and keep it in as good of condition as you could, knowing full well that it is going to keep breaking on you?

I see God holding this world together until He creates it anew (Christian theology and scripture actually teaches that we will be on a New Earth, created perfectly such as this world was before we messed it up instead of going to the current Heaven where God resides).

Anyway. I thought you had a great post there. Just wanted to share my thoughts on it.


EDIT: Just read your most recent post... Can't say I agree with that one nearly as much. What HAVE you been drinking lol

(I mean it all in good fun. This is me disagreeing with somebody who so far has been respectful so far as I can tell.)

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Mykahel]

Love definitely plays into the equation...I think I did mention that I don't think the world is beyond repair and I will add that people who love are fighting for a world that is free of defects.

But I do believe that it's humans that will have to make the decision to repair society and that the idea that God will or could do it is a bunch of nonsense and not logical. However...the actual details of achieving salvation or doom are more complex.

I've been drinking whiskey...

reply to post by Mykahel


Your post is long...and contains many terms that we probably don't have similar definitions of. I'll read it and then try and comment.

You know im pretty s!ck and tired (respectfully)with God's passive mercyfulness.You have been a good boy today so i wont hit you. Living in servitude of a God that we have to be afraid of ,while we have 1725 pages of a book that teach us to love one another.

I gave life to my children and i dont teach them to fear me.Thats not love but hey:god's ways are unscruitable right ?, except when you see a cute nun !
edit

[edit on 14-6-2010 by SSimon]

I found it ironic when people ask these "if gods real then why is there so much bad in the world?" type questions but no one asks "If God is false then why is there so much good in the world?"

You need to realize that the heart of that question is to blame god...like Adam did in the Garden when he tried to place the blame on Eve, and God for putting eve there in the first place.

The reality is, God gave us as humans the ability to do both incredible good and incredible evil. If man does evil, it's not God's fault, it's mans for disobeying. Don't hate god for giving us free will, rather love god and use our free will for good not evil. Anything ese is just shifting the blame unfairly. That tradgedy was not the fault of God but of man.

Yet God's mercy is so great that he would even forgive that man of that sin...if he repents. Otherwis know that God will dispense justice when every chance at offering mercy has been exhausted.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

why does god hate amputeees ?

How sad to believe people can't be whole without all their limbs.

please go back and read what i wrote - you are projecting your fantasies on me - dont

no wonder it's so difficult for you to grasp the concept of a God with no limits.

so why are aputees never the recipients of miracles from this limitless god ?

day in / day out we are bombarded with the claims that miracles happen - and " god did it " when ever anything favourable happens

so why are amputees excluded ??????????

My view is that God is willing to intervene in all of our lives if we ask! Just look at all the people who have experienced devastating losses,from murder to mishap,and yet they have not become bitter,resentful,or angry.

(I am reminded of the story of an Amish family who lost their loved ones when their buggy was hit by a car. I believe the young man was sentenced for vehicular homicide,but the Amish family reached out to comfort the family of the young man who was sent to jail! The Amish are great examples of that kind of compassion!)

There are tragedies occurring this very minute all across the globe,and it burdens my heart to try to fathom it all. Do I blame God? No. Can I understand why it has to be this way? Not really. Do I believe that God will keep His promise to bring all suffering and sin to an end? Yes.

Christians long for Christ's return,because that will be THE intervention to end all interventions!

Pain and suffering in this life is inevitable. John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

It is an example of His grace in our lives that we can live in this world and not be consumed by anger and grief or despair. We put our hope in the promise of the eternal and the unseen,knowing what is in this life is only temporary.

Experiencing overwhelming pain gives us a level of empathy with others who are also in pain,and that includes every one of our brothers and sisters in this world,for who hasn't known pain and sorrow,discouragement or fear or doubt? We all struggle with the same emotions,but we don't all deal with them the same! And some hide it better than others,for fear of admitting their own weakness;they may overcompensate or take refuge in acquiring power in some other area of life,or just numbing all their misery in drugs or alcohol,or any substitute addiction. Plenty of variations on how people cope!

"Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you."

For those who believe this,He does indeed intervene,so that we can not become devoured by our suffering. We needn't let our circumstances define who we are,when we know that we are His beloved children and He longs to comfort us through His Spirit,which is able to sustain us through all of our trials and tribulations.

This says it better than I can:

Romans 5:3-5 "Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us."

If someone is seriously doubting God's ability to intervene,they should ask God ,humbly,to make His presence known to them,to ask Him for the type of peace that "surpasseth understanding".

We should not expect for this life to be free from pain,we should continue to seek His grace that gives us the means to cope with adversity.

reply to post by On the Edge


ALl I want to say is that if a person over comes being bitter, angry, ect....this is their strength within them, this is their skill of adapting, coping, and dealing with life, in a mature manner.

The credit should be owned by them, and they should give themselves a pat on the back for not letting emotional and shortcomings over come them.

They have made progress, and they should be proud of themselves for dealing with life in a more positive way that benefits their inner being.

YOu can attribute it to God...but God is probably saying 'good job, that is the way, you are learning, your are maturing, Im proud of you;.

WHAT A TRULY STUPID THREAD!

This is based on nonsense, not facts.

How do you know that God did not intervene?

How do you know that this death has degraded the future, not improved it?

Consider, without this death, maybe Wikipedia 60 years in the future might have read...

reply to post by airvicemarshal

THE COUNTERFACTUAL

The following is an actual case that only recently came to light by comparison of two people's diaries.

In the late 1790's a British Man O'War was patroling water in the Mediterranean. It was late at night and there was only one Lieutenant on the watch. He had orders to sound the alram and open fire at any French vessel with militiary personnel aboard. Out of the fog comes asmall French merchanman. Onboard were various civilians and woman and a single unarmed French soldier in a scruffy uniform.

Should he open fire and kill all the civilians?

Technically, he should, but had he done so, he would merely have been remembered in history as a ruthless and vicious British officer who killed a dozen French civilians.

He chose not to.

The Officer of the Watch was Lieutenant Nelson who would become Admiral Horatio Nelson.

And the ship's passengers? The unarmed revolutionary soldier,Corporal Napoleon Bonaparte and the other civilians on board would almost all one day become his top officails in Napoleonic France and the toop Marshals in Napoleon's Army. Had Nelson opened fire there would have been no Napoleonic Wars and millions of lives would have been saved, but had he done so, people would not have know what had been avoided and, the handful who might have found Nelson in a footnote in history, would have asked why did God not intervene to save the lives of the civilians from this officer fo the watch.