What is your explanation for information supernaurally gained by spiritual/religious individuals

I have been reading a lot about religious topics for a while, and recently I have been looking at certain "miraculous knowledge" and "revelations" religious people have gained through encounters or contact with "spirit beings" or "ghosts". While these people do seem to receive information they seemingly couldn't have known, the religious message that goes with them is usually contradictory to the others. I will give some examples of events that seem fascinating and hard to explain any other way.

First, the apparition of "Our Lady of Fatima", which led to the mass witnessed "Miracle of the Sun", where the apparition told them about the date of the event before it happened.

I will post some info on it from wikipedia, but there is a lot more to read

en.wikipedia.org...

"As early as July 1917 it was claimed that the lady had promised a miracle for the last of her apparitions on 13 October, so that all would believe"

"The Miracle of the Sun (Portuguese: O Milagre do Sol) is an alleged miraculous event witnessed by 30,000 to 100,000 people on 13 October 1917 in the Cova da Iria fields near Fátima, Portugal. Those in attendance had assembled to observe what the Portuguese secular newspapers had been ridiculing for months as the absurd claim of three shepherd children that a miracle was going to occur at high-noon in the Cova da Iria on 13 October 1917.[1]"

There were also some psychics that said this date was going to be special.

Next, the psychic accounts of Emmanuel Swedenborg. For those not familiar with him, he is the man that started the religion he called "True Christianity", or "Swedenborgianism"

en.wikipedia.org...

Here are some excerpts on his psychic abilities from Wikipedia

"There are three well known incidents of psychic ability reported in literature about Swedenborg.[47] The first was from July 29, 1759, when during a dinner in Gothenburg, he excitedly told the party at six o' clock that there was a fire in Stockholm (405 km away), that it consumed his neighbour's home and was threatening his own. Two hours later, he exclaimed with relief that the fire stopped three doors from his home. Two days later, reports confirmed every statement to the precise hour that Swedenborg first expressed the information.[48]

The second was in 1758 when Swedenborg visited Queen Louisa Ulrika of Sweden, who asked him to tell her something about her deceased brother Augustus William. The next day, Swedenborg whispered something in her ear that turned the Queen pale and she explained that this was something only she and her brother could know about.[49] The third was a woman who had lost an important document, and came to Swedenborg asking if a recently deceased person could tell him where it was, which he (in some sources) was said to have done the following night.[50]


I will have to do the next part in another post, because the next part is too big for this post.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by NamelessMonster]

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The next is Wallace Fard Muhammad. He is the founder of the religious movement "The nation of Islam" (which actually has little to do with Islam, see for yourself below) and claimed to be God in person.

en.wikipedia.org...

This may or may not have the information where it says that all white people are devils and were created in a laboratory a long time ago by a scientist.
en.wikipedia.org...

But here is the fascinating information he had.

"In 1930, when Master Fard Muhammad came, He told us that, “The total area of the land and water of the planet Earth is 196,940,000 square miles.” He said, “The circumference of the planet Earth is 24,896 miles,” and, all of us had to memorize this. “The diameter of the earth is 7,926 miles; the area of land is 57,255,000 square miles; the area of water is 139,685,000 square miles.” He said “The Pacific Ocean covers 68,634,000 square miles and the Atlantic Ocean covers 41,321,000 square miles.”

“The Indian Ocean,” He said, “covers 29,430,000 square miles, and the lakes and rivers cover 1,000,000 square miles. The hills and the mountains cover 14,000,000 square miles; the islands are 1,910,000 square miles; and the deserts are 4,861,000 square miles. Mount Everest is 29,141 feet high, and the producing land is 29,000,000 square miles. The earth weighs 6 sextillion tons—a ‘6' followed by 21 zeros—and is 93,000,000 miles from the sun, traveling at the rate of 1,037 1/3 miles per hour. Light travels at the rate of 186,000 miles per second, and sound travels at the rate of 1,120 feet per second. The diameter of the sun is 853,000 miles.”

We were just students under a Master Teacher who asked us to study. Then, Master Fard Muhammad began to tell us about the distance of the planets and the life that is on the planets. He taught Elijah Muhammad, who was from the cotton fields of Georgia, and, who only went to the fourth grade of school. If you compare what Master Fard Muhammad said in 1930 (now 79 years ago), with the dimensions that the scholars have given, every year they have gotten closer and closer, until now their computations are similar with Master Fard Muhammad's. He is the man Who taught Elijah Muhammad, and came to raise us up from a dead level and make us rulers over those who once ruled us—not by guns and sticks, but by giving us a superior knowledge."

I'm not sure if all of that info is right or not, but some of it is still way closer than anyone should have been able to know at the time. Although I know his religious beleifs are a bunch of ridiculous garbage, this part is certainly impressive.

I also heard a story about a woman that came back with information about a group of stars that nothing was not known until many years later after being abducted be "aliens". It might have been the "Betty and Barney Hill abduction"

Anyway, how do people get this information? Who are they dealing with? And how do we know which side is telling the truth? Is one side getting it from divine forces and the other evil? Is it all evil? Or is it just neutral? I have been having trouble with what to make of all of this. Feel free to post some other miraculous events such as these along with your thoughts, and it doesn't matter if they are religious in nature or not.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by NamelessMonster]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by NamelessMonster]

there is not such thing as religious or spiritual information, it is just information that came from a mean that we cant understand

we need to consider that we dont understand how our world really works, but we can assume that we may have the possibility to get information from the universe in some way, like "reading minds"

other thing, maybe when we die, our information may exist, or at least traces of information in the universe, so, some people may be able to pick it up

there are some people that can do remote view, who knows how, but I am almost sure it is possible, simply because the US gov and others supported these experiments and even some of these guys work for them nowadays

and the most common, people are just having allucination or have some mental disease and are imagining things

there are a lot of possibilities in this area that I believe are being and need to be more explored than just saying, well, its GOD talking to me, or it is an alien, or whatever ...

I really dont know any people that can get this information, but really, there are a lot of possibilities that I could write here, before even thinking about these religious ones

I really believe psychic abilities exist, we are antennas, so there are probably a way to capture information from our brain, you just need to use your imagination plus a little logic to kind of imagine the most probable alternatives or theories







[edit on 13-6-2010 by Faiol]

reply to post by Faiol


That is sort of what I was thinking. Is it also possible that people create and cause these events to manifest themselves in a religious manner due to their personal beliefs and psychic power? Most people have to look in to the metaphysical or paranormal before anything like this ever happens though.



[edit on 13-6-2010 by NamelessMonster]

reply to post by NamelessMonster


yes, very possible too, thats something I would say too

some events that may happen, like a GHOST or something, I believe it could be created by our mind, not only in your mind, but in the universe ...

I remember Dr Greer saying he recorded UFOs when he and a group of people go to places to "concentrate" and talk to the aliens, maybe they were creating with their minds or something like that, it is not that far fetched;

--

another thing, for every event that it is not COMMON to our life, you will have a unique perspective, example: when Colombo got to America, the natives thought they were Gods, simply because they couldnt understand a ship;

that it is probably the explanation of 99,9% of these religious events, like the ones described in ancient books(bible) ...

thats the origin of the ancient aliens theory, that ancient people didnt saw ANGELS, or FLYING CROSSES, but some high tech or some other beings ...

Great post!
I believe that messages received come from two sources...
GOD and demons

If the message is inline with the BIBLE it is of GOD
if it is not inline with the BIBLE of of generic nature... it's from satan or demons

"talking to the dead" that's of satan.

The two well-known Theosophists Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater claimed to have used one of the eight siddhis, or paranormal mental faculties known to yogis for thousands of years, to magnify mental images of atoms and subatomic particles. This ability is called 'anima' in Sanskrit. They published their work over 38 years in their book Occult Chemistry (1st ed., 1908, 2nd ed., 1919, 3rd ed., 1951).

Dr Phillips, a British theoretical physicist, analyzed their observations and found that, by re-interpretating what they claimed they had seen, he could explain literally thousands of details in Occult Chemistry in accordance with facts of nuclear physics and the theory of quarks at the heart of the standard model of particle physics. In other words, Besant and Leadbeater described subatomic particles like protons, neutrons and quarks many decades before they were even conceived by physicists, let alone detected by them. His conclusions were endorsed by a Fellow of the Royal Society (the discoverer of vitamin B12), a former Minister of Science in the Indian Government, a former Associate Director in the Physics Group of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre in Mumbai, India and by a Nobel-Prize winner in physics known also for his interest in parapsychology.

Study Dr Phillips' work here:
smphillips.8m.com...
smphillips.8m.com...

where you can also order his books proving that detailed knowledge about the subatomic world was obtained by superphysical means many decades before it became known to science, making all conventional explanations (fabrication, lucky guessing, etc) impossible. Read Occult Chemistry here.

I would like to hear some alternative explanation for these sources that they get their information from (like the earlier stated information from the universe). But what I mean now, is the idealistic religious messages some people get, while others get completely different contradictory religious messages or ones that are not religious at all along with the information. I understand how people could be pulling information from the universe or some sort of source like that, but what is with the other stuff that comes with the information? I'm not religious, and I have done a lot of research on religion to come to this conclusion, but I do beleive in the possibility of spiritual and supernatural forces. With the information these people receive from whatever these sources are, there also comes a lot of errors and things that are completely untrue (which is why I find them manipulative). And this part applies to most religions as well (in my opinion, no offense). There are a lot of possibilities, and like I said earlier, people's religious views might cause these events in the first place.


[edit on 16-6-2010 by NamelessMonster]

Accidentally posted the above post twice - Sorry

[edit on 16-6-2010 by NamelessMonster]

Short answer.....

When something occurs, the fact that it occurred emerges as information. Since the occurrance can never (from that moment on) have not occurred, the information of that occurrence as fact is eternal. This information collects - associated and delineated by way of relative context - within an eternal mass called The Informational Continuum. I like to call it The Residual Info Mass (RIM).

The RIM exists within physical proximity to all else that exists, since it is the result of all else that exists doing what it is that everything that exists does (with all that activity collecting as event information within the RIM) Accessing the RIM is no mean feat for other informaton-centric forms of life, and if the corporeal is capable (usually due to a brain malfunction) then direct access to one of these info-centric life forms is intermittent and episodic, with epiphany (usually with mixed results, unfortunately) as the net effect of that access.

We call these brain-damaged folks psychics and prophets. That is if we like what they're telling us. We call them possessed and insane (some of them) if we don't like what they tell us.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by NorEaster]

Originally posted by NamelessMonster
That is sort of what I was thinking. Is it also possible that people create and cause these events to manifest themselves in a religious manner due to their personal beliefs and psychic power? Most people have to look in to the metaphysical or paranormal before anything like this ever happens though.

Quite an old post to drag up, but things move so fast on here, at any given point I seem months behind, but I was reading something interesting recently that kind of reminded me of this. I don't know whether you have heard of an author called Wilkie Collins. Very famous in his day and he was really the pioneer of the psychological drama, come detective story. Anyway, I was working this Sunday on a story about Whaling, I had this vision of a woman stood on the cliff looking down over Whitby harbour as the ships came in with the haul, a jet black cloud of gulls hanging over the masts and swooping down on the carrion strewn deck. As usual with these things I got lost in the vision, wrote the story in my head, forgot to write it down and then had to frantically scramble to trigger my memory in the vain hope that I may capture the story. Too late. Again!

Anyway (again), Wilkie Collins, as I found out, often had holidays in Whitby, sometimes with Charles Dickens. Lewis Carrol was a frequent visitor too. And then there is Bram Stoker of course. And no doubt countless others who have disappeared into obscurity... Even more fascinating though, is that I found out that Collins suffered from a condition called Subjective Doppleganger syndrome. It belongs to whole spectrum of fascinating 'projective' 'disorders'.

And to top it all I then, this very day, came across a book in Oxfam called Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio by Pu Songling...it is a collection of short stories. The very first in the book is this tale...

"Tan Jinxuan, a first-degree graduate of my home district of Zichaun, was a great believer in Taoist yoga. He practised it assidiously for several months, regardless of the weather, and seemed to be making some progress.

One day, he was sitting cross-legged in meditation when he heard a tiny voice inside his ear, buzzing like a fly and saying, 'I think I'm taking shape...'

He opened his eyes, but could see nothing, and the voice was no more to be heard. He closed his eyes, regulated his breathing once again, and the voice returned. This, he thought to himself with secret delight, must surely be the Alchemical Homunculous."

The story goes on but I won't spoil it for those who haven't read it (and more importantly I can't really be bothered to type any more)...

Goethe wrote about it too. And the Buckinghamshire branch of the Hell Fire club fell apart after someone tried to pass off a monkey dressed up as a homunculous causing all present to have a bad trip indeed. But, just because it wasn't so that time doesn't mean it isn't so... Passing off 'difference' as mental illness, and deviation from the norm as Deviancy with a big Duh! does not remove the fact that some brains seemingly function differently to others. Allowing for that, that there is a diversity of 'brain types' or 'processing capabilities', then we have to accept that it is possible that some people can process information that others cannot. The problem though is that as a species we have lost touch with nature and therefore some of us have lost the ability to comprehend the information that is conveyed to us in ways that are not visual, sensual or auditory. I wonder if perhaps, theoretically, it would be possible that the brain could attempt to create an entity representative of it's self in order to try and communicate with the visual/auditory sensor. Either way, it didn't seem to do Collins any harm. I'm not sure if there is much biographical material on him, but you might just find some answers there.



'

Your interests can be broken down to clairvoyant ability and telepathy. No, you don't need to cite historical texts and examples. Some of us here do have clairvoyant and telepathy abilities. For me, especially for events I have a great deal of interest in it, I do have dreams or visions about them. The problem is that what do you do with the information? Do you try not to intervene because you know how the future events being unfolded? Do you try to intervene in order to change the future events? Would the future events being unfolded regardless if you do or do not intervene? For the fact that you know the event, does it prevent it from happening? You can watch any of the Star Trek episodes dealing with time travel. You would come in contact with "tempo mechanics."

We all come up with a silly idea about knowing the winning lottery numbers. What if you know who you would marry in the future but the time frame of this event hasn't been specified? What do you do with yourself in the meantime? Do you go look for this individual? What if you are not supposed to look for him or her? If you did look for this individual and ended up marrying the wrong person, did you just interrupt the time line, your time line? Complicated? Yeah. These are the things I always have to deal with.