I am sorry to report well is crippled down hole very long read

Oops.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by whatsup]

reply to post by cosmicpixie


Statements of belief defy that something has an observable logical set of provable facts.

A belief is something where you hold something to be true based on your impression, psychological state of mind, or bit of cognitive footwork that suggest that you think or have conviction in something to be true in the absence of any supporting material.

However, you present your claims as if they do have supporting material, and that supporting material is a logic fallacy of calling to authority, and the presumption of fact. So you "believe" but then back it up with a claim to "know."

So you believe something based on no evidence, and based on a logic fallacy then are annoyed when someone points out that this doesn't bode well for taking your seriously. This isn't a "belief," but a touch of illusion dressed up as thought. Your entire system is a feedback situation where you believe something that you have no evidence for, and then feed that belief with evidence which is based on a logical fallacy.

Calling you on that isn't disallowing that others may have valid beliefs they are entitled to - it is a direct questioning of your entire thought process being observably compromised.

[edit on 2010/6/17 by Aeons]

billyj- I won't decant all the blame onto a "neebie" engineer on site. Nor on the captain as has been tried.

The culture of safety and the expectations are laid by those who pay the pay cheques, as is the tolerance of significant safety risk.

And if this unexperienced engineer is out on a showcase well drilling into unknown territory in a well that is deeper, highly pressure, and almost experimental, the senior management who did that have much to answer for.

For this well, under these circumstances I would expect their best subsea geologists, and the best petrophysists, and their best engineers, drillers and vendors. If instead every step of this was unreliable, unexperienced, untried, it is unconscionable.

That at every turn people try to blame the low man on the totem pole and pass the entire problem off like this is....political expedient and not particularly believable.

Understand I think your explanations are excellent though.

Describe a bottom kill for everyone here please.

All,

I am not sure if i have posted here but i decided to login after a hiatus of probably 10 years to inform everyone that the video link provided on the top of page 11 has now been removed. What kind of supression bullcrap is this?

Did anyone make a copy?



""Last night in Australia one of our MSM investigative journalist shows 60 minutes showed probably the most disturbing footage of the oil slicks Ive seen yet. Somehow they were granted access over the area from the US Coast Guard. The whole report is pretty horrific to be honest but I was proud to see that our media was atleast showing the public the true extent of how bad this oil disaster really is.

Anyway I must say give this video a watch to see them follow KMs of oil slicks by helicopter its absolutely devastating to see.

video.au.msn.com...

"

I just heard this Matt Simons guy on Dylan Ratigan again saying that deep kill cannot work because he believes the casing has mostly all blown out - and there is essentially nothing there to intercept?. Any truth to this? He also says nuking the well at 18,000 feet and turning it to glass is the only option (to which Michio Kaku says would only make things worse).

Oops, here is more on old Matt Boy..
______beforeitsnews/news/80/086/Oil_Spill_Conflict_of_Interest:_Matt_Simmons_Is_Shorting_At_Least_8,000_BP_Shares.html


[edit on 17-6-2010 by whatsup]

Anybody else watching Q4000 ROV2? Would like to know what it's following? Some spots it looks like it's following a crack or a groove of some kind. Never mind the camera went out. Strange.

reply to post by lextsy


If you visit the vaious BP threads you will notice a lot of the video links have been removed, they seem to disappear quickly after being posted to the net. I too am suspicious!

Originally posted by White Wolf
Couldn't they use a bit of C4 plastic explosives to melt the ends of the Pipes that are leaking and seal the valves. What about laser tech. Could a hot enough ray seal the leaks shut? Or even hot liquid steel?

They would need to use a sub such as The Ottoman which has been refurbished but still have the furnaces. The boat was one of the first vehicles to use torpedo technology.

I'm not sure the Ottoman is strong enough to handle the depth, but there may be other boats that would.

They can use the torpedo tubes as the mold to guide the hot steel into the leaks.


Just a few thoughts.

Seriously, do you people not read the thread before you post?

If they seal the pipe, the well may burst.

Originally posted by lextsy
All,

I am not sure if i have posted here but i decided to login after a hiatus of probably 10 years to inform everyone that the video link provided on the top of page 11 has now been removed. What kind of supression bullcrap is this?

Did anyone make a copy?



""Last night in Australia one of our MSM investigative journalist shows 60 minutes showed probably the most disturbing footage of the oil slicks Ive seen yet. Somehow they were granted access over the area from the US Coast Guard. The whole report is pretty horrific to be honest but I was proud to see that our media was atleast showing the public the true extent of how bad this oil disaster really is.

Anyway I must say give this video a watch to see them follow KMs of oil slicks by helicopter its absolutely devastating to see.

video.au.msn.com...

"

actually, if you had read a few more posts down, you would see it is still available in cahced form.

I don't trust anything BP says or does. They have played cat and mouse with video, photos, ban on photographers, private security goons, buying up Google search words, you name it.

There seems to be no independent coverage on scene because of media blackout.

There have also been major foot dragging and fumbles by U.S. Coast Guard, EPA, and certainly the slow motion White House whose trips were supposed to reassure everyone by having Obama on the nightly news eating seafood. Apparently, decisive executive leadership cannot be found in Washington.

There have to be some big time shenanigans going on behind the scenes that we, the American public, are not privvy to, yet our coast is being ravaged by this.

They have let the criminals control the crime scene.

After feeble attempts to stop the gusher and lie after lie, why hasn't this emergency been turned over to NASA engineers (the best and brightest) and the U.S. Navy (any kind of robotic submersible you would ever need)?

The whole thing smacks of gross negligence, coverup conspiracy, and failure to act decisively and with the full might of U.S. resources. Why the government collusion with BP unless we are witnessing politicians hands tied because they're so entwined with big oil?

First we had a substandard and pitiful response to Katrina, now this.

Unbelievable.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by switching yard]

i believe a sleuth - oh , say PHAGE - could go to this link:

USGS national magnetic survey, select BSL or SJG

and start data mining from the san juan and texas magnetometer

labs....

before and after the April 20th event....

and find something like this..





i do not have the time to correlate the data, ie., to exclude solar

flare/cme activity as a source of geomagnetic field disturbance,

but a geophysicist could.

the spike in main magnetic moment is interesting.

there should be rumblings just before and maybe increasing in

frequency since..

this may be the only way to indirectly infer a coming "massive

blowout event" the government and BP would never tell us about.

any seismic events should create magnetic disturbances...should...

? any takers?



[edit on 6/18/2010 by drphilxr]

[edit on 6/18/2010 by drphilxr]

reply to post by irishchic

What also scares the chit out of me is the total and absolute lack of respect for the American people in all of this:the obviosuly intentional confusion, lies,lack of reality as to the severity and possible resulting situations.

It is these same Americain people who are the largest consumers of oil, waging economic and physical wars over the length and breadth of this planet.

BP is a publicly traded company, responding to the demands of shareholders, who only care about profits.

So the biggest consumers stubbed their toes. BTW- I am a US National. I am also not a fan of corporate profits, because they do not take into account the human element, unless it is for profits.

reply to post by lextsy


No use posting a link. That one does not work.

Probably flooding this board or gets flooded from people wanting a look.

BP is a public company. All the executives are hired, and paid out of company profits. I think all the share holders at the time of the event and those selling off in the weeks before the event should be held accountable.

Other than that, we all are to blame for allowing greed to rule us.

Another political expediency. "We" are all to blame.

Not say, the people who own and drilled the well.

Let me be a bit Machiavellian -

I would like the board and senior management and the largest stockholders in the US industry to be locked in a room for 2 hours with BP US's board and senior managment and top stockholders......after they are told that the Feds are going to move from a "guidance" model of regulation to a "directive/enforcment" model due to their stupidity.

reply to post by whatsup


Once they intersect the old wellbore the relief wells, heavy mud and hydraulic horsepower will stop the flow. It's only a matter of how long it will take. Whenever I've taken a kick my sphincter doesn't get real tight as long as I have pipe in the hole at least halfway down to the point that the flow is coming from and the blowout preventer is working. While getting a kick under control it is important to control the rate of escape so that the same volume of weighted mud can be injected at the rate that is flowing out. In a normal enviroment we can control the rate of escape. The problem here is that there is no way to slow the blowout volume so the mud will be diluted by oil and gas flow as it is pumped. I haven't ever had this problem, since I test my effing BOP's. I surmise that they will go in with 15#/gallon and get out with 10#/gallon. Over time more mud will be flowing out with less and less oil diluting the mud. The rate the well is flowing is a function of reservoir pressure and back pressure in the wellbore. So if the 7#/gallon density oil is replaced with a mixture of 10#/gallon then the back pressure will slow down the flow rate, allowing less and less oil to dilute. Keep in mind the annular volume they are trying to fill is only 350 bbls to the top of the bop and maybe another 500 bbls to fill the riser back to the rig floor. This has been done before. In fact it was done in Santa Barbara after that idiot Red Adair split the casing in a top kill effort.



Finally, the mindless prattle coming from Matt Simmons should be ignored. The guys a banker at best and a journalist at worst. I assure yo he hasn't ever been on a rig floor during a kick. Eevn if he ever saw a drilling rig, if there's a problem the fisrt thing to do id get all the tourists out of the way. Hs comment about the eroded casing is idiotic. We drill thousands of feet of open hole without running casing andexcept in unusual circumstance the mud stays in the wellbore. In fact the mud helps maintain the integrity of the wellbore similar to blod clotting to stop veins from bleeding.

reply to post by Aeons


I am not trying to blame it on the kid they had out there. That was more of a comment about my whole profession, that has occurred since the accountants took over the idustry in 1986. I am afraid we have a whole generation of engineers that think their job is to "cut costs" instead of producing oil without killing people. This is understandible when for 20 years raises, promotions and bonuses wre decided solely on the basis of cost savings rahter than production rate. Accountants are constantly confused by the revenue portion of the income statement, but thay really understand the expenses. I'll believe this comment is wrong when I read about a CEO hiring 100 salesmen to improve sales instead of laying off 20% of the workforce to improve profits.

Originally posted by billyjack
Once they intersect the old wellbore the relief wells, heavy mud and hydraulic horsepower will stop the flow.

Provided the hole ain't 12 feet wide after that blast of pressure destroyed parts of the eroding well above and thus permits piping below from being forced up that well. They may end up drilling into a newly created cavern where the well pipe once was.

Well, I am very familiar with high pressure water cutters, and ancillary equipment.

The problem is in order to 'cap' a high pressure outlet, you have to interrupt the high pressure first.

It isnt a matter of just stuffing a valve on top of the leak.

It doesnt work that way.

reply to post by switching yard


Sorry about the terms, but when one gets on a roll the jargon of 30 years kicks in.

Supercharging a formation is increasing the pressure in the formation by injecting into it at a faster rate than it can absorb the fluid being pumped in. Over time the pressure will leak off and the pressure will drop to the reservoir pressure by compressing the formation fluid, but this may take some time depending on the amount of fluid injected and permeability of the rocks, any pressure higher than reservoir pressure is supercharged

I described the kill procedure in another reply above.

Drilling a well requires using high strength drill pipe with heavy pipe on the very bottom above the drill bit. Once a well has reached total depth, then the hole is conditioned as drilled dirt is cleaned out of the mud and mud viscosity is increased and the fluid loss from the mud is reduced. Then the drillpipe is pulled in triple lenghts(depending on derrick height) and stood back in the derrick. Then as long as there are no hole problems(like kicking) a sophisticated set tools are run on an electrical cable that measure various properties of the formations drilled. Depending on the tools run this can take 24-48 hours. After that is done the readings are analysed to determine whether there is enough productive interval to warrant a completion attempt. If so the drillpipe is run back in to the total depth of the well and another mud conditioning is done by circulating the mud and adjusting its properties. Once all appears to be stable then the drill pipe is pulled out of the hole and layed down in singles. Once all the drill pipe is layed down then a different pipe is run into the hole to be used to produce the well. This "casing" is run with one way cement valves on the bottom that can be pumped through .but will not allow fluid to come in. Once this pipe is on bottom then the mud pumps are hooked up and additional circulating of the entire mud system is again accomplished. Since it has probably been 24-48 hours with no circulating of the mud system then the same processes for the logging and running pipe is repeated. The rookie mistake is that when the pumps kicked in and mud was pumped into the casing the well began flowing out of he annulus outside the casing, but the entire volume of mud in the annulus was not circulated all of the way out of the hole. We know how much volume is in the annulus, so bottom's up is the portion of the mud that comes up from the very bottom of the hole. Since this part of the mud system is most likley to be contaiminated with oil & gas and the mud behind it must be observed to assure that the contamination was only a minor seep not a major flow. Even if it is then we continue to condition increasing the mud weight until there is no more flow. If a well is kicking we may be circulating for for several hours.

This is a standard operation. There are a myriad of problems that can occur, from not getting logging tools down, to losing circulation( pumping in and nothing comes back) it's going into the formation because its too heavy to getting stuck and others.

Hope this clarifies the jargon.