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Desperately seeking Palestinians

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posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by LarryLove
Okay, when I say I am seeking a Palestinian side to the story, I am talking about their life experiences within Gaza and the West Bank. Not directly related to what happened on the flotilla. There are questions over the legality of the raid being conducted in international waters, but my point about the media footage captured that day remains. Yes, it should be scrutinized by Israel, but the legal teams working for those involved in the flotilla have the right to access it too.


What rights do the legal teams of foreigners working under foreign governments law have in Israel over what the IDF has confiscated in a lawful naval interdiction ?
NONE. A burglar or a thief cannot demand to get their equipment back when they have been caught in a crime. Same goes with those who organized and participated in this grievous assault on an Israeli blockade.

A 50 years ago, the proper response for such a naval action, would have been sending in naval destroyers to blow the Mavi Murmara and others out of the water. Had these been naval ships that would quite possibly have been Israel's official position. However, considering their civilian character, they differed to a more sedate approach.

Regarding the everyday lives of the people in Gaza, again calling for Palestinians wouldn't really help as those on the West Bank live entirely different lives as those in Gaza. The Gazans have chosen to install Hamas, a terrorist entity as their political leaders and thus chosen to allign themselves with their terrorist activities understanding its repercussions. Their fate is entirely of their own making. However, as to getting a perspective from there, there are many International Aid agencies and NGO's that are working in Gaza to monitor the situation and they release regular independent reports of the situation. These reports would be an ideal barometer of what you want, some prejudice and bias not withstanding.

The Israeli settlers who were forced out of their homes and had their homes demolished in Gaza would also give you an interesting perspective on the entire GAZA situation right now. Hamas and the Gazans has squandered their sacrifice and turned their lives upside down.

The Israeli settlements that were bombarded on a hourly basis by dozens of rockets from Gaza would also give you another interesting perspective on the current Gaza situation and how they feared for the lives of their children and their families as Hamas was raining hundreds upon hundreds of rockets upon their heads while Israel could get no help or mediation from any international body or Arab nations.

Further the IDF soldiers will give you a different perspective on how the Gazans, who despite seeing their children go hungry would rather spend their meager earnings to rather buy bombs and guns. How the Gazan's have held one of their own in solitary confinement for more than 2 years. How the tunnel networks are used to replenish Hamas.

I would think that the Israeli perspective would be as informative and enlightening as to the current situation in Gaza and the causes of it as the Gazans version. Yet you haven't called for their side of the story at all!




posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by virgom129
Do I have to live in America to be an American???

Maybe you live in Israel, maybe you dont..Who knows?

I don't live in Israel, I live in America, pay taxes in America and am a citizen in America.

You clearly don't live in America and don't pay American taxes, so you might as well not be an American citizen.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by IAF101
 


Do you live in Israel?

Sorry, you just answered my question!

[edit on 13-6-2010 by LarryLove]

What is the current vibe among Jewish Americans regarding the situation? There have been Jews speaking out against the current blockade and am keen to get your opinion on what might happen over the next few days regarding the proposed talks about addressing the blockade.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by LarryLove]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by LarryLove
Hello, I last saw you on a thread about kid preachers in the States. How you doing?


LOL. Yeah, my cousin wants to join the Westboro Baptist Church community so I was learning all about them. Scary representation of America and Christianity to me. I'm argumentative and belligerent, thanks for asking!

One thing I have noticed is that as soon as you start talking about the Palestinian side, people are very quick to fill with anger and accuse you of not listening to the Israeli side. My intention with this thread couldn't be further from the truth. I want to encourage a Palestinian voice to this forum.


I have noticed that sort of things too. I applaud your effort because I am very new to all of this. I finally realized there was something big I knew so little about so I began reading. My time on ATS of course lead me to look at threads in that vein. I have found no shortage of the opposite viewpoint from what you are asking for. If other people are worried about it, they need to learn to use the search function. As someone who is really just trying to figure this all out, I can not see how anything but good comes from asking to hear what the other side has to say. I thought your OP was a pretty simple request for information from a voice not as well represented here as the one opposing it. Even if I did not agree with you about something, I find it hard to have an excuse to bash it.

Hopefully threads like this will veer from the angry vitriol and produce some valuable insight for you - then by proxy for me. Good luck.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


How about a flotilla of kid preachers. Now that would break any blockade. Their conviction knows no bounds!

I am just looking for that unsung voice and hope it will emerge. I think that writing on forums like this should involve some basic journalistic integrity and hope that this thread can achieve that.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Sure they are.

Some of the fine dining...


I wouldn't call that a propaganda thread that drive a narrative. It is merely a fascinating story about a luxury resort in Gaza that operates despite the blockade. That doesn't allude to anything positive or negative to either side of the argument.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
I read this OP and thought it made perfect sense. Why? Because the other side to balance things out that you are looking for is already well represented on ATS.

You seem to be under the illusion that it is a them vs us fact ledger. That is not the case AT ALL. The negative of Gaza and Hamas do not negate the need for exposing the voice of the everyday Israeli citizen or the IDF soldier who is looking at this from the other side of the blockade. There are no threads on ATS that present such a perspective nor is there any interest in getting such a perspective.

The OP here however is more than eager to get the average Palestinians point of view of the blockade. That makes me suspicious as to his motives and thus my questioning.


Originally posted by K J Gunderson
I myself and quite ignorant on the subject but in just this last week it has been quite easy to gain plenty of knowledge FROM ONE SIDE. If you truly feel there needs to be more threads for your side of this, I believe others pointed out you can start one......and at it to the pile.

Again you seem to allude that anything negative said about Hamas or Gaza seems to indicate that it an pro-Israel story and therefore it is an Israeli position. While the Government of Israel may have published and presented a lot of news and information about Gaza, the average Israeli's voice and perspective is all but drowned out by the enormous weight and importance being given to Palestinians and their leaders who want to wipe out Israel.
This is a sad dichotomy and exists only because of the latent bias that pervades the popular consciousness of the Western world and the Western media.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101

Some of the fine dining...


The OP here however is more than eager to get the average Palestinians point of view of the blockade. That makes me suspicious as to his motives and thus my questioning.



With respect, how can asking for the opinion of the average Palestinian about the blockade make anyone suspicious unless it is a voice that people don't want heard. I am eager to engage you in constructive dialogue, but ask that you come directly to me when suggesting I have no journalistic integrity.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101

I wouldn't call that a propaganda thread that drive a narrative.


Imagine my shock.


It is merely a fascinating story about a luxury resort in Gaza that operates despite the blockade. That doesn't allude to anything positive or negative to either side of the argument.


Only read the OP and not subsequent posts by the same person in his own thread? It was hardly a "Look at this restaurant" thread. READ IT. Pay close attention to the many many many many mod posts trying to say that things are a certain way in opposition to the news in many areas but can only back up anything they say with ONE RESTAURANT.


You seem to be under the illusion that it is a them vs us fact ledger.


Do I? Who did I define as them and who do I include as us? I am not sure what you said makes any sense at all.


That is not the case AT ALL. The negative of Gaza and Hamas do not negate the need for exposing the voice of the everyday Israeli citizen or the IDF soldier who is looking at this from the other side of the blockade.


The only person I see trying to negate any voices at all here is you. What are you talking about?


There are no threads on ATS that present such a perspective nor is there any interest in getting such a perspective.


Not even sure what you are trying to say is not on ATS at this point, really. Either you did not read anything in that thread, did not check SF's post history, do not know how to search, or you need to explain yourself better.


The OP here however is more than eager to get the average Palestinians point of view of the blockade. That makes me suspicious as to his motives and thus my questioning.


That sounds like your problem. If you want to hear the other side, go get it. Is this OP preventing you from asking anyone else about anything else? I am not sure I understand what you are on about at all.


Again you seem to allude that anything negative said about Hamas or Gaza seems to indicate that it an pro-Israel story and therefore it is an Israeli position.


No, I do not. You are just making up things to argue with that have nothing to do with what I said or what you quoted.


While the Government of Israel may have published and presented a lot of news and information about Gaza, the average Israeli's voice and perspective is all but drowned out by the enormous weight and importance being given to Palestinians and their leaders who want to wipe out Israel.



Mmmmk. Maybe you should start a thread. Sounds like it would be interesting and well researched. Good luck with it, I promise to read it.



This is a sad dichotomy and exists only because of the latent bias that pervades the popular consciousness of the Western world and the Western media.


No, actually you just made it all up. There is no bias here. Just read the OP again. There are plenty of threads here about all kinds of subjects. If I were to start a thread simply asking to hear from people I feel I have not heard from, how does that silence anyone or detract from anyone else?

What I see is you are too lazy, ignorant, or full of hooey to provide any real information or else you would have just done that. All you have done is whine and complain because someone asked for a particular voice.

Don't want to hear it? Do not read the thread.
Want to hear opposing voices, go find them yourself just as this OP is doing.

It seems to me that you would rather no one say anything unless they only ask everyone to show up all the time - unfortunately, on ATS we know who will show up and what they are bringing. They have people like you to thank for that.

Now if you have something meaningful and informative to add, let's hear it. Otherwise, you are just crying about an OP asking a question you do not like. If that is how you want to represent yourself, I believe readers here are smart enough to begin skipping over that. I would guess all the stars you are getting for your empty rants are a good indication of how that goes down.

I truly look forward to your thread.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


How about a flotilla of kid preachers. Now that would break any blockade. Their conviction knows no bounds!


Ha! There was that video of like a 9 year old I think it was. I am not sure I could handle a bunch of boats full of kids like that coming at me. They certainly were hard and fast in their beliefs, even the ones they did not understand.


I am just looking for that unsung voice and hope it will emerge. I think that writing on forums like this should involve some basic journalistic integrity and hope that this thread can achieve that.


The way I see it, this is a forum. Each time someone starts a thread "Christianity proven...." There is soon another with the same topic titled "Evolution proven...." I see opposing threads next to each other on the front page all the time. If you get one voice, awesome. If you feel you need one because it is lacking in comparison, then we will have balance. If not, I see no reason someone cannot just start another thread requesting the opposing voice.

Maybe that is just me being silly though. Threads about crazy churches and scary kid preachers are more fun.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


You know, it's a sorry state of affairs regarding the issue between Israel and Palestine on this forum. If ATS is supposed to be a hive of free and open minds, then I am very misguided. I am shocked to see the response you get from what I thought was a very simple question.

Edit to say that you are right about the thread trend here. I am a tenacious little bugger and will find that other voice - with or without an ATS blockade!

[edit on 13-6-2010 by LarryLove]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by LarryLove
 


Don't worry. Sometimes you just have to block some people out. I hate hitting ignore but some people are just bees buzzing around your head with noise and need to be put down. Until then, Father Redheaded Stepchild has your back!



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Very good!



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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So, are there any residents from Gaza or the West Bank around?



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by LarryLove
 


I really think there is noone on ATS from Palestine, I have never come across one and I have been surfing this website from past 3 years only to join this year. I dont think anybody from Palestine will join ATS considering the inadequate infrastructure and poor internet restricted connection it will be limited to blogs and such. Where people are fighting for their lives a conspiracy website is the last place you would expect them. Its like a leisure visiting this website.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Crimson_King
reply to post by LarryLove
 


I really think there is noone on ATS from Palestine, I have never come across one and I have been surfing this website from past 3 years only to join this year. I dont think anybody from Palestine will join ATS considering the inadequate infrastructure and poor internet restricted connection it will be limited to blogs and such. Where people are fighting for their lives a conspiracy website is the last place you would expect them. Its like a leisure visiting this website.



I take your point, but what interested me is that Gaza and the West Bank have internet connectivity that far exceeds many other war zones in the world - source and one of the highest literacy rates in the world.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by LarryLove
 


Your source is citing 2007 figures

>>siteresources.worldbank.org...

The Gaza war happened in 2008-2009 when most of the infrastructure was destroyed.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by Crimson_King
 


I'll have to have a poke around to see what up-to-date information there is. I still believe it is important to garner the other side of the story from first hand Palestinian accounts. Aside from a particular posters ambition to accuse me of having a personal agenda, I am intrigued to learn from people on the ground and yes, that includes people from Israel.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by LarryLove
 


Goodluck with it, you can see this blog run by a lady from Gaaza www.gazamom.com... I have visited it once before few months ago. You can try contacting her through her blog.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by Crimson_King
reply to post by LarryLove
 


Goodluck with it, you can see this blog run by a lady from Gaaza www.gazamom.com... I have visited it once before few months ago. You can try contacting her through her blog.


Thank you. I'll report back!



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 04:44 PM
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I will love it when the first palesitinian replies, and all they say is " Death to Israeal and Death to America".




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