Desperately seeking Palestinians

reply to post by IAF101


IAF101..Is that Israeli Air Force???

Maybe you can help me then...

I lost my ship, its called the Liberty...

Dont suppose you've seen it?

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by LarryLove

It is clear a lot of media manipulation has happened and the families of those that died deserve the truth not spin.

Those families deserve NOTHING!

Why do they deserve the truth or even any information ? They are known terrorist sympathizers and anti-Israeli activitsts who have long been known to be campaigning to bring about the destruction of Israel. Israel own them NOTHING!

The dead were engaging in a military activity of breaking a naval blockade. That is akin to committing a military act against the state of Israel and Israel has every right to respond to such an act by any means necessary.

Further they formed a well organized mob that was intent on engaging and attacking Israeli soldiers, whom they very well knew would be armed and dangerous. They sought out and engaged armed soldiers and died in the process, they deserved exactly what they got.

The families deserve nothing from Israel. These men didn't die in an accident or through no fault of their own while minding their own business. They sought out and choose their ends and they got it.

I think it is important all the facts are known. Without the documentation, we are as good as shooting in the dark to address what went on. An Israeli poster said recently that the hate needs to be killed before peace can occur.

Everyone has the right to protest. There are too many unanswered questions surrounding what happened and yes, the families of those that died deserve answers. Wouldn't you?

Originally posted by virgom129

That is ridiculous, firstly Israel does not have a blockade in place so it is easy to find out what the situation is like in Israel...

Secondly, last time I checked the OP is entitled to base HIS thread on anything he likes...

You are entitled to do the same..
So get going and start a thread looking for Israelis to tell us what life is like in Israel ATM.

No, what is ridiculous is that you don't seem to understand that the blockade involves material goods, not news and information. Hamas has been spreading propaganda just as effectively from Gaza and its sympathizers across the world. It continues to wage a media war on Israel through its affiliates and through international NGO's in Gaza. So the idea that they can't communicate because of the blockade is totally false!

I don't need a lesson on what I can do and cannot do here. My main point is that the OP is trying to generate a narrative, rather than the truth. Propaganda threads are not allowed here, as far as I know!

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by virgom129

That is ridiculous, firstly Israel does not have a blockade in place so it is easy to find out what the situation is like in Israel...

Secondly, last time I checked the OP is entitled to base HIS thread on anything he likes...

You are entitled to do the same..
So get going and start a thread looking for Israelis to tell us what life is like in Israel ATM.

No, what is ridiculous is that you don't seem to understand that the blockade involves material goods, not news and information. Hamas has been spreading propaganda just as effectively from Gaza and its sympathizers across the world. It continues to wage a media war on Israel through its affiliates and through international NGO's in Gaza. So the idea that they can't communicate because of the blockade is totally false!

I don't need a lesson on what I can do and cannot do here. My main point is that the OP is trying to generate a narrative, rather than the truth. Propaganda threads are not allowed here, as far as I know!

No, I am seeking to find truths by engaging people in open dialogue and not political rhetoric. I would be the first to agree that media manipulation by both Hamas and Israel is out of control.

Originally posted by virgom129

Personally I find the OPs thread valid..
To learn the truth we need to hear both sides...

I did suggest you start your own thread seeking words from Israelis..

I don't need to start a thread to drive a narrative. That would be dishonest and biased.
Apparently, you are content to hear one side of the story and accept it as the truth, just as the OP is, and that is my point.

The OP is not calling for first hand accounts from both sides, he is asking for Palestinians ONLY. I question such a motive.

reply to post by IAF101


I don't need a lesson on what I can do and cannot do here. My main point is that the OP is trying to generate a narrative, rather than the truth. Propaganda threads are not allowed here, as far as I know!


Well that would of made ATS a barren place in the l;ast few weeks....

BTW, Israel would win a propaganda war hands down..........

Originally posted by virgom129

IAF101..Is that Israeli Air Force???

Maybe you can help me then...

I lost my ship, its called the Liberty...

Dont suppose you've seen it?

The Liberty again ?? It sleeps with the fishes!

Apparently, you are so naive and biased that you would jump to conclusions as soon as you seen a name. How typical of a terrorist sympathizer and propagandist!

reply to post by virgom129


Well to most of us, discussion and propaganda are two entirely different things. The former involves learning, the latter involves indoctrination. I suggest you learn the difference

As to an Israeli propaganda machine, if it really did exist, then I guess its pretty bad at its job with all the publicity Hamas propaganda is getting, not to mention all the naive people it has converted to champion their cause, such as yourself.

reply to post by IAF101


Well, I guess we got to page two before the whole thread derails into anger and hate. The same emotions driving the nonsensical political regimes throughout all our countries.

reply to post by IAF101


The Liberty again ?? It sleeps with the fishes!

Apparently, you are so naive and biased that you would jump to conclusions as soon as you seen a name. How typical of a terrorist sympathizer and propagandist!

Firstly the Liberty made it back to port, the Israelis failed.

Secondly if I was a "terrorist sympathizer and propagandist!"
I'd be on your side

Originally posted by LarryLove

I think it is important all the facts are known. Without the documentation, we are as good as shooting in the dark to address what went on. An Israeli poster said recently that the hate needs to be killed before peace can occur.

Everyone has the right to protest. There are too many unanswered questions surrounding what happened and yes, the families of those that died deserve answers. Wouldn't you?

Facts are important but Palestinians don't have any facts, they don't know any more than what is on TV because what happened, took place at sea. The only thing that they could provide would be conspiracy stories and speculation.

The documentation is with Israel and Israel is conducting an investigation into the entire incident. That is why it is important for Israel to know the facts of the case, so that in the future such instances can be cleared up and proper operating doctrine can be established to deal with recalcitrant and aggressive mobs like on the Mavi.

People have a right to protest, but even protests are subject to the rules of law. You cannot protest by attacking soldiers or breaking international rules. Doing so is just a crime and as such these "protesters" are criminals.

Also, the right to protest is a privilege that Israel has given to these people. They are not Israeli citizens and they enjoy no rights in Israel. In fact, in many countries, protests are not allowed. Had these people done so in Chinese waters, they would be facing life sentences with hard labor in some Chinese prison. It is but for the good graces and the democratic values of Israel that these so called "protesters" were let off and allowed to go home, despite their brazen act of trying to break a naval blockade.

Originally posted by virgom129
Firstly the Liberty made it back to port, the Israelis failed.

First, the Israelis never tried,, it was an accident and the USS Liberty was scrapped. Second, it is not YOUR ship, you aren't even American!
The USN is more than capable of taking care of its vessels and doesn't require your advocacy.

Originally posted by virgom129
Secondly if I was a "terrorist sympathizer and propagandist!"

You have yet to demonstrate that you are anything but!

reply to post by IAF101


Also, the right to protest is a privilege that Israel has given to these people. They are not Israeli citizens and they enjoy no rights in Israel. In fact, in many countries, protests are not allowed. Had these people done so in Chinese waters, they would be facing life sentences with hard labor in some Chinese prison. It is but for the good graces and the democratic values of Israel that these so called "protesters" were let off and allowed to go home, despite their brazen act of trying to break a naval blockade.

Israeli has NO right to decide who can or can not protest outside of Israel..

You are right about Chinese waters but these people were NOT in Israeli's waters, so I fail to see the point of your post...

Originally posted by LarryLove
No, I am seeking to find truths by engaging people in open dialogue and not political rhetoric. I would be the first to agree that media manipulation by both Hamas and Israel is out of control.

If you are seeking the truth, then I suggest you call for all sides of the argument as that is the only way to get a balanced opinion and arrive anywhere close to the truth.

The Israeli government and the Israeli citizen both have valid points of view that are all too often ignored in the rush to condemn and criticize Israelis for being the aggressors/bad guy, while their main concern always has been and still remains the prevention of terrorist activities and safeguarding the lives of its citizens.

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by LarryLove

I think it is important all the facts are known. Without the documentation, we are as good as shooting in the dark to address what went on. An Israeli poster said recently that the hate needs to be killed before peace can occur.

Everyone has the right to protest. There are too many unanswered questions surrounding what happened and yes, the families of those that died deserve answers. Wouldn't you?

Facts are important but Palestinians don't have any facts, they don't know any more than what is on TV because what happened, took place at sea. The only thing that they could provide would be conspiracy stories and speculation.

The documentation is with Israel and Israel is conducting an investigation into the entire incident. That is why it is important for Israel to know the facts of the case, so that in the future such instances can be cleared up and proper operating doctrine can be established to deal with recalcitrant and aggressive mobs like on the Mavi.

People have a right to protest, but even protests are subject to the rules of law. You cannot protest by attacking soldiers or breaking international rules. Doing so is just a crime and as such these "protesters" are criminals.

Also, the right to protest is a privilege that Israel has given to these people. They are not Israeli citizens and they enjoy no rights in Israel. In fact, in many countries, protests are not allowed. Had these people done so in Chinese waters, they would be facing life sentences with hard labor in some Chinese prison. It is but for the good graces and the democratic values of Israel that these so called "protesters" were let off and allowed to go home, despite their brazen act of trying to break a naval blockade.

Okay, when I say I am seeking a Palestinian side to the story, I am talking about their life experiences within Gaza and the West Bank. Not directly related to what happened on the flotilla. There are questions over the legality of the raid being conducted in international waters, but my point about the media footage captured that day remains. Yes, it should be scrutinized by Israel, but the legal teams working for those involved in the flotilla have the right to access it too.

Edit to say that I am keen to talk to everyone, but without undertones of anger nor people who are quick to judge. Dialogue by way of keeping to the facts and not allowing emotions get the better of us.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by LarryLove]

reply to post by IAF101


And you call me naive???/

Do I have to live in America to be an American???

Maybe you live in Israel, maybe you dont..Who knows?

As for me, I sympaphise for the poor people caught up in this power struggle...

reply to post by virgom129


Israel has the right to intercept any vessels that tries to breach its naval blockade in any waters, be they sovereign or international. Please refer to international maritime law if you don't understand the implications!

The leniency that Israel has shown these activists is a privilege and a courtesy that the state of Israel has extended. They are in no position to demand any better or any more.

Originally posted by IAF101
I don't need a lesson on what I can do and cannot do here. My main point is that the OP is trying to generate a narrative, rather than the truth. Propaganda threads are not allowed here, as far as I know!

Sure they are.

Some of the fine dining...

Mod written, mod endorsed, full fledged propaganda with a twist of BS thrown it. It was ok for a mod to start a propaganda thread, it was closed for asking for proof of claims made by the mod. See how ATS works?

I read this OP and thought it made perfect sense. Why? Because the other side to balance things out that you are looking for is already well represented on ATS. See the link above. Check Skyfloating's post history. You are whining either out of laziness or the need to whine. I myself and quite ignorant on the subject but in just this last week it has been quite easy to gain plenty of knowledge FROM ONE SIDE. If you truly feel there needs to be more threads for your side of this, I believe others pointed out you can start one......and at it to the pile.

I do not understand why you would have a problem with someone simply asking for a different voice.

reply to post by IAF101


The UN called this blockade illegal months before this event...
Only Israel say it is legal.....



GENEVA — United Nations human rights chief Navi Pillay on Friday accused Israel of violating the rules of warfare with its blockade stopping people and goods from moving in or out of the Gaza Strip.

She cited the conventions' requirement that "no protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited."

The convention also bans reprisals against civilians under occupation and their property.


www.foxnews.com...

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by IAF101
I don't need a lesson on what I can do and cannot do here. My main point is that the OP is trying to generate a narrative, rather than the truth. Propaganda threads are not allowed here, as far as I know!

Sure they are.

Some of the fine dining...

Mod written, mod endorsed, full fledged propaganda with a twist of BS thrown it. It was ok for a mod to start a propaganda thread, it was closed for asking for proof of claims made by the mod. See how ATS works?

I read this OP and thought it made perfect sense. Why? Because the other side to balance things out that you are looking for is already well represented on ATS. See the link above. Check Skyfloating's post history. You are whining either out of laziness or the need to whine. I myself and quite ignorant on the subject but in just this last week it has been quite easy to gain plenty of knowledge FROM ONE SIDE. If you truly feel there needs to be more threads for your side of this, I believe others pointed out you can start one......and at it to the pile.

I do not understand why you would have a problem with someone simply asking for a different voice.

Hello, I last saw you on a thread about kid preachers in the States. How you doing? One thing I have noticed is that as soon as you start talking about the Palestinian side, people are very quick to fill with anger and accuse you of not listening to the Israeli side. My intention with this thread couldn't be further from the truth. I want to encourage a Palestinian voice to this forum.