What rifle is best for SHTF situation?

I always got a kick out of this guys answer.

Gregory Girard says:
I have guns in .223, .308 and others. However, in any gunfight I'll using my bolt action 9.3x62, or my .458 Lott, both of themn with solid, non-lead bullets designed not to expand. With these guns, it doesn't matter much if the attackers are taking refuge behind 2ft diameter trees, corners of buildings, behind cars, or wearing hard "rifle plate" body armor. These things are reletively transparent to such "safari" type cartridges (within certain limits, such as over an inch of steel). Certain firepower is low in terms of rate of fire, but a single shot well placed shot at several running up a path, for instance, will make it possible to pass a broomstick through all three. In general, safari type rifles approach the awesome ballistics of a 50 Cal., but are light as any standard 30 Cal rifle like a .308. Unlike the 50 Cal, one can run, climb walls/fences/trees, and shoot them from any conceivable position. Personally, if it were me on attacking end and I somehow found out the person I was after had a safari rifle, I'd would consider the fact that I could never find safe cover too much of a risk to proceed.
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www.amazon.com...

reply to post by Subjective Truth


I do not doubt your claim but this is unlikely for a potential 'newbie'. The main advantage of an EOTECH-type is the ability to gain a quick sight picture and engage. I wouldn't be too confident on 'sniping' with one over a mag optic sight where I can account for windage, etc.

Originally posted by empireofpain
Tacticle SKS is your best bet. It is more accurate then the AK and just as durable.

SKS is an awesome weapon I got mine for $29. US years ago. Accurate cheap ammo….well back when anyway. Just a well rounded gun.

AVOID THE AR-STYLE RIFLES.

These new AR rifles are not the same matty mattel rifles from Vietnam
The A2 especially Bushmaster is an awesome weapon a lil cleaning but not nearly as problematic as the M-16 of yesterday.

And while the NATO round tends to not pack as much as a punch as the 7.62x39 the NATO round because of its lightweight tends to shatter or 'splinter' enside the enemys body causing massive wounding.

Actually the 5.56 more tumbles unless it hits a bone but yeah a lot of internal damage.

A quick question for the more insightful crowd: What's up with the .223 / NATO compatibility? I realise the remington ammo can be fired from a NATO rifle, could this be done the other way around? The accourding to wikipedia the NATO rounds build up more pressure so the rifle would have to have enough reserves, anything else?

Because considering a real breakdown you may run out of ammo at some point, if nobody sells, 5.56 NATO round could become available if the military breaks down.
I don't want to speculate on how likely it is (i hope not) but just wonder if there are remington caliber guns out there which could work in theory (although not recommended) without breaking down.

Originally posted by kybertech
A quick question for the more insightful crowd: What's up with the .223 / NATO compatibility? I realise the remington ammo can be fired from a NATO rifle, could this be done the other way around? The accourding to wikipedia the NATO rounds build up more pressure so the rifle would have to have enough reserves, anything else?

Because considering a real breakdown you may run out of ammo at some point, if nobody sells, 5.56 NATO round could become available if the military breaks down.
I don't want to speculate on how likely it is (i hope not) but just wonder if there are remington caliber guns out there which could work in theory (although not recommended) without breaking down.

As I understand it any rifle marked 5.56 can shoot .223 but a rifle marked .223 should not use 5.56. While the rounds are dimensionally the same 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures which will expand the case more and cause a stuck case in a .223 chambered rifle.

reply to post by DucTape


The question is if it would be viable to get any of these: (bottom of the list)
en.wikipedia.org...

Well they seem all to be more in the 'highend' range, if you know what I mean ... so I wonder if there is some alternative... the Ruger Mini-14 seems affordable, but what else there is there?

.. the SU-16 looks more like a police weapon but isn't too pricey from what I see and is lightweight.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by kybertech]

I had a SOC16 as my go to gun, but it ended up being a huge POS. Literally the worst rifle i ever owned. Chronic FTF, FTE, accuracy issues, mag jams, etc.

I've got a new Mini-14 now with the redesigned barrel and such. It's accurate and very durable. Hasn't hiccuped in over 500 rounds thus far.
I always liked the .223 round. I've dropped everything from deer to squirrels to 300 lb hogs (FMJ for the latter).
I've owned an older Mini-14 for years, and even though people talk smack on the older Mini's, it has been to hell and back and is still a badass rifle.

All things considered, the new version Ruger Mini-14 gets my vote.

reply to post by kybertech


I always thought the Remington 7600 was a cool gun.
en.wikipedia.org...
The reliability of the 870 shotgun in a rifle.

Thank you for your clearification

For the people who want to have a battle rifle: How do you think you would survive if everything you cold hunt would have to move towards you? During my mandatory service the Steyr AUG was fun to use hitting round targets, but I cannot see how it could be used for anything else except a firefight. I cannot speak for other weapons of this kind but I guess this would be the worst possible option.
The stupidest thing about it is that the full auto kicks in if you press the trigger all the way, go figure... the thing it was made for is basically killing a group of people without thinking.

The thought about getting such a civillian version to use for anything except target practice is way beyond my understanding. It's useless for anything else, rent one and shoot it you will know why...

I inherited a Springfield 1903 bolt action 30-06, original condition, and I am adding a bolt on nodrill/tap scope mount in a scout type configuration, also have a 12ga Remington 887, all synthetic and Fiber Resin coating. And I have a SA XD40 pistol, so I feel comfortable with those 3.

Between me, my dear honey, and my 11 yr old boy, I think we should be covered.

And for protection, I just bought, not 20 minutes ago, a German issued Flecktarn camo Flak Jacket with the Kevlar included, for $63 online. If you want to know where I got it, U2U me. Hopefully they don't go too fast!

The current gun I am looking at is the new Savage Edge rifle in a .308.

The Edge

And with an MSRP of $329 you can't go wrong with a nice polymer rifle.

reply to post by Springheel Jack


1903 while just a bit heavy was a solid gun I shot several of those one in particular belonged to my dad. That gun could shoot the gnuts off a gnat at 100 yards in a high wind.

reply to post by Cool Breeze

I have never personally owned a savage but have read a lot of good press on them and my dad talked highly of them and all knowledge aside if dad said so it was a good gun.
Now when it is $300 bucks, that’s a no brainer. Jump on that.

Now for all of you proud owners I think in a forum it would be best not to state I have this gun and this gun and… if so you might as well give a map of the yard and where you buried them to the PTB. Best off just to state yes, I have shot or handled said piece of equipment and found it great.
Or something that is acceptable is something like, I had a Ruger Mini 14 and I loved it till I dragged it out hunting for 2 weeks and then ended up hunting with my sidearm because of rifle failure, and then had to return the rifle to the factory as replacement parts are not sold. That was a true story, I love Ruger and I love the M14 but the mini14 just was not what I wanted it to be. When I got said rifle back a guy just went nuts and shot up a school in Stockton, Kalifornia so all of a sudden I had a gun that was going to be outlawed as an assault weapon, that did not concern me what did concern me was I traded it straight across for a SigSauer P225 (small cap 9mm) which I then sold for double what I paid for the Mini 14. Win win situation for me. I then invested the money in stocks and bonds and never bought any more guns…

(Now for a trip in the way back machine, I bought that Mini14 from BEST Products and walked out of the store with it same day, ammo and extra mags no trigger lock or anything.) Yeah I'm old.

i think i'm getting a 12 guage shotgun with a pistol grip. in SHTF situations broke out i would probably have a bayonet for it. it's either that or i can take some duct tape and put a pitchfork at the end of the barrel. or maybe perhaps a late 1800's musket bayonet, modify it to fit a shotgun barrel and use that

How about the Armalite AR-10

standbyliberty.org... nd-why-re-invent-the-wheel/

reply to post by rockoperawriter


I think a shotgun is an allaround good weapon for SHTF situations. Ammo is cheap, easy to find. You can get a rifled bore and buy slug ammo to increase penetration and distance. Only down side is your limited to 5-10 rounds, and the shells are alot bigger than standard rounds.

I love my 1903 Springfield and I am thinking about buying more milsurp rifles. I like the history that youre buying when you pick up and shoot one.

if you use a shotgun at a closer range (20-30 yards) you can make two kills at once. amongst that, when in a guerrilla combat arena carrying a second rifle is awful handy. my second present day era rifle of choice is the tactical grip mini-14. with or without a scope, it's pretty accurate

my list of dream milsurp rifles, submachineguns

m1 garrand

browning automatic rifle

thompson submachinegun

m-14 (this is for shooting, this is for fun!)



[edit on 7-7-2010 by rockoperawriter]

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are


Yeah i like the AR 10, 7.62 stopping power and distance.

I also like the FN SLR 7.62 as used to be British Army issue until the late eighties, great accurate, powerful weapon.

Quite loud tho, would be good if you could find an appropriate suppressor.

I give up! You guys are so full of $hi*, you'd embarrass a stuffed Christmas turkey. Out of 6 pages there are about two people that vaguely know what they are talking about. I have used the average AK-47 (real ones) trying to teach Iraqis and Afghanis how to shoot. They always want to use full auto and to combat the myth that FA is the best way to shoot the AK we give them a full 30 rd mag (not a clip) and we will put 5 in our mags and challenge them to a shoot at 100 yds. The average AK shooter can usually manage to get one round on the target, at best, and we get all five on with semi-auto. It takes many iterations of this for them to grasp this fact, some continue to not grasp it. Having shot these myself, as opposed to the ICs on this website, they are miserable on accuracy. Even on semi, they are at best 5-7 MOA guns, even the best ones that I've seen. If you are fighting house to house, in a muddy environment and clearing room to room, yeah, great. Of course, in a survival situation, the last thing you want to be involved in, on purpose, is CQB. As to the OP of the best TSHTF rifle, it's the one that you have, but obviously you should pick the best one that you can find, for your purpose. Of course, the best thing to do is to live in your BO location to begin with, so you can store on site several different purpose long guns, if you don't you severely decrease your probability to survive. Since you haven't made any "real plans" and are going to BO when TSHTF, my question is, when do you know it's time to BO? Especially if the beginning is low key. If you were so ball-less that you couldn't tell the little woman "hey babe, we're moving to the country", how are you going to get her to bug out when you can see the writing on the wall but there aren't riots in the street, yet? Considering doing so means the difference between surviving or not, or are you just going to abandon your family? So, since you are going to be a commando, let's look at the options, and cut the sarcasm. First, I don't know what a 7.62x55 is unless you are referring to a Swiss K-31 round which is used only in SWISS LMGs and the old K-31 rifles, and fine rifles they are, but they are bolt action, and if you are going to insist on being a commando you will need a semi-auto, easy to repair/ clean/spare-parts, caliber commonality/availability, easy to transport and plenty of accessories to adapt to your circumstances. You don't want to be in a fire fight with a bolt action anything. The ones that came up the most were the .22 in 10-22, 5.56 in AR and Mini-14, 7.62x51 in SOCOM 16/II and 7.62x39 in AKMs or SKS. Also a distant 5th someone mentioned 9mm. The best way to look at this is logically, logistically and mission orientation. Logistically the 9mm should only be considered as a last resort, in this situation. First let's define the situation. You are in survival mode, you think that you are Bear Grylls in commando mode, you are traveling through the countryside and need to survive off the land and any unlucky people you come across, since they are "packing your gear" for you, and you are trying to escape the zombie hoard that you left your wife and children to face alone. Now, where are you? If you are in the desert then you need something different, but the problem is that long range = heavy, both rifle and ammo. In scrub brush, a light handy weapon is desired, 9mm, AR, AK/SKS. In interspersed, pasture/woods general rural area, which makes up a lot more of the US than any other type the 9mm isn't suitable. If you're "a big ole boy" as opposed to a lard-ass, you might get away with a SOCOM M1A version of some sort, but it will get old, soon! Why, you ask? Well lets look at logistics, logic and mission orientation. Logistics in general, it is a military round so surplus "midnight req" ammo should be available as well as commercially. Someone said that they wanted what the enemy is shooting, and unless you think that only the US is going to suffer from a TSHTF AND that some other entity has nothing to do better than attempt to invade the US, then the enemy will be the US gov't. Personal logistics, the SOCOM II weighs 10.5# unloaded with out optics or other accessories, heavy (even the std M1A and the SOCOM 16 both weigh 9.3# according to the SA web site). The ammo weighs 287gr per std ball round. (Reference 7000 gr = 1#) Logic dictates that this is heavy and unless you are IN PLACE, in bug out land, which I suggest over and over, with 1000s of rounds then this is not the choice. Next, the AK/SKS but the AK and the SKS are not remotely related, other than being Russian. As at the beginning, unless you want a 150 yds or less rifle then the AK is not the rifle for you, especially since the ammo weighs 253gr per std ball round, which is about 88% the weight of the 7.62 NATO, and the rifle weighs about 9.5# empty and between 10.5 to 11#s loaded. So, you wold be better off performance wise with the Socom 16 with better ballistics and almost identical weight for ammo and rifle. The SKS is a much more accurate rifle than the AKM/AK-47, but without wasting space, it uses the same ammo as the AKs and weighs 8.8# empty so about 10#s loaded, so back to SOCOM 16. The .22 10-22 just is not the OPTIMAL weapon as a .22 delivers up to 183 ft/pounds of energy, which is not enough to be dependable for anything but small game although, you can kill deer sized game on occasion with very good (perfect) shot placement. This is versus the almost 1800 ft/pds of energy the SS109 5.56 round delivers. It was said that you could get off 10 rounds in 3 seconds, which is true, but do you really want to have to shoot 10 rounds to ensure a kill and then it may not be an immediate kill. 10 rounds weighs 510 grains which is more than twice the weight of two 5.56 rounds, so logistically you are down some. And yes, you can carry 3.5 times more rounds per each 5.56, but if you have to shoot 5 to 1 (10/2) for the same effectiveness, you are way down logistically. The practical aspect is that even if you shoot at someone ten times, do you hit them ten times and unless they are all head shots through the eye socket, then you run the risk of being killed by someone, that though they are mortally wounded, will kill you before they die! Not a good situation. If they are still standing when you quit shooting, you are just about to die, say your prayers! Also if you use hi capacity magazines (not clips) you run the risk of jams and if you go to the ground and crunch it up into the rifle, you may now have a club, and it is the only long gun you have and maybe you have a handgun. Is that what you want to try and end a firefight with? The factory mags are about $15 and the hicaps are $35 and up, buy factory 10 rounders. AR/Mini-14s. First the Mini-14, at 6.4#s it weighs one more pound than a basic m-4 with sights. The Mini M-14 action, hence the name, is very robust, however it is not as easy to work on as an AR but it can be cleaned as easy as any of the others. Spare parts are not as easy to replace as an AR, I would have another Mini-14, but that is not an option for the survival commando. I suppose, you could buy another trigger block assy and spare bolt assy and an op-rod and keep them in your BOB but that would be another #3-4s minimum whereas with an AR you can have a complete upper and lower parts kit WITH a complete bolt carrier and bolt assy with a charging handle for about 1.5#s. That is what I carried with me over in the desert, and I never needed them. But, if this is what you have it is sturdy and I have nothing bad to say about it other than the chambers are VERY tight and if you reload you will have problems with military brass going into battery. I have two of them and it took 6 different sets of dies to find one that would size them down to the point that I could use them in my two Minis. Even the Dillon size die had to be screwed all the way down until it touched the shell plate and I still have the occasional failure to go to battery. The AR-15 is my choice, of course some draftee (I was drafted in 1972, so shut up) that had the infamous M-16 (not A1 nor A2, M16 the first ones with the bad ammo and no cleaning kits) in the mid 60s when they first came out, probably hates them, and yeah I'd be pissed about it too. However, even the Marines use them for service rifle competition, out to 600 yds with open sights, and have been using them since the mid 90s because the Army was kicking their asses with M-16A2s over the armory accurized M-14s the jarheads were shooting. Oh, the ten ring is only 12", at 600yds, and people regularly shoot in the high 90s. Yes, they are using select non-military loads to shoot the course, but even with ball ammo they shoot "leg" matches at the same distances and the scores are not that much less. It is an accurate, reliable, easily maintainable, deadly and reasonably light weight platform. Ammo, I would use the 55gr FMJ over the 62gr SS109 out to 100-200 yards and 62 gr for 200 out to 400 yds or for harder targets as the SS109 has a steel penetrator in it and is more accurate at the longer ranges. Why? First, the 55gr will upset easier at the shorter ranges due to yaw and the hypersonic shock effect and create a devastating wound channel, seen it in action. The biggest complaint of the 62gr was over-penetration (just poking a hole in them) at closer ranges due to not yawing that early in the trajectory but at the longer ranges it does yaw when hitting something and will take them down. In Somalia the biggest complaint was that it took two rounds to knock'em down. But you're (not your) shooting people at 200 yards or less in urban settings. The military also uses (without going into explanation why) a 71gr HP with great success and none of the complaints of the other two rounds, but it isn't available as surplus, you'd have to reload your own. You can load up mags with both and color code them. Yes you have to clean it, but you have to clean anything. No rifle that is shot a lot (2-3K rounds a year or more) can be left for 30 years and work without cleaning. Anyone that says that, is full of it. If you want to pay $1500 for a piston gun, then go ahead, that will solve any perceived problems. My issue M-4 has never, in thousands of rounds, ever jammed! I have 4 personal ARs and have never had a jam in thousands of rounds, course I clean them. And of course, you can always use 6.8 spc or 6.5 Grendel, but those are not common rounds. Here's my list, in order 1. AR, 2. Mini-14, 3/4. SOCOM 16/SOCOM II, 5. SKS, 6. 10-22, 7 AKM/AK-47. No list is perfect and I have no vested interest in any particular issue other than surviving, but I'm sure some of the ICs here will have something similar to spew out of their mouths as comes out of their rear ends. Further, the best thing you can do to survive is have; a rural location (in place), food storage, proper equipment, proper skill sets, a plan and a brain and know how to use everything. If this is done you should have a collection of long guns and at least one handgun. The minimum; 10-22, AR, .308 (full size M1A or bolt, both would be better, you want them for long range accuracy), SKS (just cuzz you might need to use that ammo or for barter, buy 5 of them), 12ga pump (Mossberg 590A1 model# 51663 or 51668 only; my preference) and a 9mm handgun (yes I know it is a wussy round). Think about this, could there ever be, some need of you having a rifle that looks like a military rifle with a handgun (Beretta 92fs) that looks like a military sidearm or to look like military personnel? Let it sink in. I prefer a .45 1911 for a handgun, personally. To round out the rifle category I would also recommend an RWS mod 48 air rifle w/ scope and a suppressor for the 10-22. Is my list absolutely right, yes, for my circumstances. If your situation is different, then adapt to it as it will never adapt to you. I was snarky here and there as there is so much mis-info that comes across on ANY web site and this one just tripped my hammer. Don't take it personal, just use the info to help yourself. Oh, btw, IC = internet commando. Best Regards 2cents PLUS.

does anybody remember the movie "falling down" with mike Douglas? he had a gym bag full of submachine guns, and a 12 gauge. for my shtf situation, i would have a gym bag kind of like that except i might have a bigger gym bag for carrying assault rifles, mre's and explosives. that and the solid black b.d.u.'s you gotta have solid black b.d.u.'s in a red dawn type situation. that or the type of stealth camouflage from metal gear solid.

reply to post by rockoperawriter


Actually a midnight blue bdu set is probably the best to trudge around in at dusk to nighttime. It blends in better for low light situations which is when you really want to travel. Also stay off any main through ways but that's all for a different thread.

I would prefer an M4 with a .223/5.56 round and (3) 30 round magazine. I have an automatic receiver assembly ready for the M4 however I'm required in my state to have only the semi auto installed. In a SHTF scenarios laws are for schmucks. My FNP9 9mm with 3 (17) round magazines (51 rounds) and my mossberg 500 12gauge with limiter removed (6 rounds per load). I wouldn't carry a boatload of ammo as no doubt that these are the most common bullets in America it'd be easy to find. I might carry 500-1000 rounds of each if I had a vehicle to store/carry them in. This would most undoubtedly be for protection.
For Hunting I'd prefer a good compound bow with arrows. Even in some situations you can pick off a few assailants quietly and quickly. I've seen some people that can shoot about 2-3 arrows for ever 5 seconds. In reality you should only need one shot and it's going to take you 5 seconds or so to site in and shoot on the next assailant.