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Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

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posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Merigold
 




You may want to read all of fatdad's posts, as he's already stated that they are in his country legally.

He answered another member's question as to whether or not they were there legally with this.....



yeah Europe has open borders so basically anyone can go live in another euro country...





And guess what, that child can do absolutely NOTHING to keep mum and dad in the US until they reach the age of 21. I know this from personal experience, as I waited many years for my American born, armed force serving, brothers to reach the age of 21.



No they can't, but they don't need to they've got our representitives (and Catholic churces) doing it for them. Our representitives fight to keep them here so their families won't be seperated, and the churces shelter them with sanctuary.




By the time they reached 21 and were legally able to sponser me for citizenship, I could smell which way the country I loved and grew up in was going, and decided I'd make my stand elsewhere.


I really don't mean to sound cold hearted, but if your parents brought you here illegally you shouldn't have been here in the first place, nor should any of their children been born here, since they shouldn't have been here in the first place. If you grew up here and loved the country so much, couldn't you have applied for citizenship on your own when you turned 18 ?




In the meantime my ANCHOR BABY brothers are proudly serving to protect your right to cry out for their expulsion.




And their service to their country is very much appreciated.


It's not a matter of crying out for their expulsion, it's a matter of wanting a law that is being used for something it was never intended for to be amended.


Just because I think my neighbor has a better house than I do doesn't mean that I can go invade their home and take possesion of it. That's basically what your parents did if they came here illegally.


My next door neighbor's husband came here from Italy, and he is doing it legally. They paid out the butt and jumped through hoops for him to be here, and he says he can't wait to pay taxes, even though he doesn't have to, but he wants to be a legal American citizen. Now his daughter wants to come here to attend college here. Guess what they are doing it legally again dishing out tons of money, and jumping through hoops. They were just told that she must come here in July, which she wasn't planning to come until the end of August. But if she waits they will lose all of their money and will have to start the whole process all over again. So guess what, she's coming in July.


I don't think that you would approve of someone coming into your house and just taking whatever they wanted. It's no different with a country, we can't continue to allow people to come into our country and take advantage of laws and misuse them for thier own purpose. A house can only hold so many people, a counrty is no different.

Stealing is wrong, even stealing of citizenship.




posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by chise61




I personally belive that one of the parents should be an American citizen, or be legally in the process of becoming an American citizen for thier children born here to be citizens. Something has to be done, this is a big problem in this country We can not continue to allow people to come here illegally and use a child as a means to stay.



And certianly in the case of a border nation that has a large number of its citizens in another country as guest workers. But more than that just to keep the obvious other obuses down that occur in these borderland states.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by chise61
 


We need to repeal that ammendant. As someone said in another thread you do not gain citizenship like this in Mexico. Nooo. They'll send yu and the kid back wherever you came from. Although I don't see anyone wanting to emmigrate to Mexico, lol.


You are incorrect, you do actually get dual citizenship being born in mexico with your parents being from the United States. Just ask my brother.

Ever hear of retirement communities in mexico for americans? They are quite popular and with the cost of goods in mexico the old folks from the states live really well off their pensions.

www.clubmarena.com...

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Procession101]



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by chise61
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Yes they would send them back in a heartbeat.

I do have sympathy for the children, but what they have to face is the fault of their parents that broke the law to get into this country. I have no tolerance for those that come here illegally with the purpose of having a child here to get their foot in the door.


But if their illegal parents got deported, wouldn't the children WANT to go back with their parents? And wouldn't their parents WANT the children to go back with them?

Issue solved?????



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by fatdad
 


I actually find the idea of Polish peopel being considered immigrants quite amusing. As they have assimilated here a long time ago. My husband is Polish, like 6 generations ago. Not very Polish anymore, I jsut have an annoying long last name. In fact, the second largest Polish community outside of Warsaw is Chicago.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by fatdad
 


But Turkey is a growing power, and becoming more westernized, and has some valuable resources. I don't think it would become a complete drain.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Merigold
 


My grandfather was the next to youngest of 5 children. His father emigrated (legally)here from Wales, worked to pay to emigrate the next brother, they worked at young ages till they could afford to bring the next kid over. The motehr came last. It was over two years before the youngest and the mother saw her husband and children. And they did it legally.


And my grandfather volunteered two tours in WWII to keep it that way.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


A lot of children born here to illegal parents (especially the older ones) even though they don't want to be seperated from their parents, they don't want to go to Mexico.

As long as we have American representatives crying out about not seperating families the problem won't be solved.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


I think you're in America right ? Fatdad's talking about the Polish being immigrants in Ireland. My apologies if I've misinterpreted what you said.

You're right we have a huge amount of Polish people here in Chicago and the majority of them do adapt well to this country and make every attempt to fit in. There are however those that refuse to learn the langauge and want to be catered to. I grew up in a predominantly Polish neighborhood and I don't remember that being the case when I was a kid. They learned how to speak English so they could survive, they didn't expect to be catered to.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


To your grandfather for having respect for this country, and the respect for himself to do it the right way.

His service to this country is much appreciated.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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You don't need to repeal the 14th amendment. I'm all for the use of land mines. They can't use the 14th amendment if they can't get here.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by wantsome]



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 04:17 AM
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If you grew up here and loved the country so much, couldn't you have applied for citizenship on your own when you turned 18 ?


Please see the link to explain under what grounds one can apply for a green card ( the first step in the process to become a citizen).

Cash for citizenship

Once you are in the country illegaly you have commited a crime and thus are ineligable to apply through the normal channels.


I don't understand why you didn't go the same route your bothers did and join the military


Ilegal aliens cannot join the military. My brothers are American citizens, i was an illegal alien.


Why havent you been able to get another person to sponsor you or employer how about higher learning?


Once you are in the country illegaly none of the avenues to a green card apply ( except marriage).

Please, take the time to read about the pathway to citizenship. It is very costly and out of reach for the vast majority of POOR people, but then that's the point.


No one has a problem with legal immigrants because legal immigrants are overwhelmingly well off and caucasian. How do I know? Look at the requirements, they take money, and lots of it.

The bottom line is that if you're poor and mexican you're not welcome by the American people, though the corporations depend on you and thus your government will continue to do nothing about it.

If you have the cash, the Americans will welcome you with open arms ( especially if you can also throw a ball well or act in bad movies). The corproations depend on you to become part of the flock of sheep who buy their uselss crap under the guise of the "american dream".


America, you've come a long way since....

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by Merigold

America, you've come a long way since....

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Those days are long gone. Get used to it.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 07:51 AM
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Many people are using the 14th amendment as a basis without fully understanding it. Here is the beauty of our constitutional law, it is a living document. This means it can be reinterpreted, with case law already in place, as guidance; but not rigid interpretation.

This is where the wording "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" will be re-interpreted into modern terms. The 14th amendment clearly states people, not citizens, but these are people illegally operating within our boundaries, not under the legal jurisdiction of the land.

RRokkyy touched on this with this part of his post.



Originally posted by RRokkyy


Why is the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" ignored? www.freerepublic.com... In the US Supreme Court case Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884), the Court stated regarding the phrase, "subject to the jurisdiction", “The evident meaning of these last words is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance."

In the Slaughterhouse Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1873), the Court stated, "The phrase, "subject to its jurisdiction" was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States."




Arizona needs to hammer this point.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by hinky
 


You are, of course, correct in your interpretation of the 14th Ammendment. However, the ammendment also states that "all persons, born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States."

These kids are born in the US, making them native-born citizens in accordance with the constitution and granting them all the rights and privledges of any other American citizen. According to the 14th ammendment they cannot have their citizenship taken away without consent. When looking at these facts, denying citizenship to these kids is unconstitutional in my opinion.

I do sympathize with Arizona and the US as a whole for their immigration issues. And I agree action needs to be taken, but the United States must hold true to the values that founded it and the laws that govern it. I believe you will do the right thing.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by Merigold
 



Please see the link to explain under what grounds one can apply for a green card ( the first step in the process to become a citizen).



Now you posted a link to a page, which you linked as "cash for citizenship".
In an attempt to skew things to imply that only wealthy people are allowed to legally come to America, that just isn't true. This type of green card is for people that invest in a business and create, or preserve at least ten jobs for American workers....



Entrepreneurs (and their spouses and unmarried children under 21) who make an investment in a commercial enterprise in the United States and who plan to create or preserve ten permanent full time jobs for qualified United States workers, are eligible to apply for a green card (permanent residence).
Up to 10,000 visas may be authorized each fiscal year for eligible entrepreneurs.

You must invest $1,000,000, or at least $500,000 in a targeted employment area (high unemployment or rural area). In return, USCIS may grant conditional permanent residence to the individual.



There are other ways to get a green card, you neglected to link the following ways.....


1) How to receive a green card through family members that are citizens. You've already said that by the time your brothers were old enopugh to help you get a green card, you no longer wanted one.


2)How to get a green card through a job.


3)Green card through refugee or asylee status.


4)Green card through self petition.


5)Green card through special categories of jobs.


6)Other ways to get a green card.


If you want to give an arguement about our immigration policies, please do so with all the pertinent facts, not just your skewed version of them.




Once you are in the country illegaly you have commited a crime and thus are ineligable to apply through the normal channels.



If you were brought into this country illegally as a minor by your parents, then you committed no crime. My understanding is that when you turned 18 you can apply for citizenship, but you do have to go back to your home country while the process is underway. There is even a provision that may allow you to gain a green card without having to return to your home country.....



There are two distinct paths through which you can get your green card. Many family members who are already in the United States may qualify for adjustment of status to permanent residence in the United States, which means they are able to complete their immigrant processing without having to return to their home country.





No one has a problem with legal immigrants because legal immigrants are overwhelmingly well off and caucasian. How do I know? Look at the requirements, they take money, and lots of it.



No one has a problem with legal immigrants because they are here LEGALLY. You look at the requirements, all of them not just your skewed version of them.



The bottom line is that if you're poor and mexican you're not welcome by the American people......



The bottom line is that no matter what you income level, or nationality, ethnicity, you are welcome here as long as you come here LEGALLY




America, you've come a long way since....

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



There was a time when this country needed a large amount of immigrants, that time is no more. We no longer have the need for such a large amount of immigrants, nor the capacity to accept them all. We are at a point in time where we don't have enough jobs to employ our citizens. We are slowly turning into a third world country and we can not allow that to happen.


I have no problem at all helping my neighbors who are in need, but I can not help my neighbors when my own family is in need. No one would take food from their own childs mouth and watch them go hungry to feed someone else's child. Self preservation is a fact of nature in all species.


Everyone expects America to take in all the poor, tired masses of the entire world, to protect other countries, to send foreign aide to all the poor countries and to every disaster, and then they spit in our face. We just can't do it anymore, we are not the care givers of the world. We have to take care of our own first and foremost.




Edit because for some reason I couldn't get the links for the individual pages to work, so I had to rearrange my post and I am just entering this link to the main page. From there you can just click on the links for all the ways to obtain a green card.


www.uscis.gov...





[edit on 6/15/2010 by chise61]



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Merigold

If you grew up here and loved the country so much, couldn't you have applied for citizenship on your own when you turned 18 ?


Please see the link to explain under what grounds one can apply for a green card ( the first step in the process to become a citizen).

Cash for citizenship

Once you are in the country illegally you have committed a crime and thus are ineligable to apply through the normal channels.


I don't understand why you didn't go the same route your bothers did and join the military


Ilegal aliens cannot join the military. My brothers are American citizens, i was an illegal alien.


Why havent you been able to get another person to sponsor you or employer how about higher learning?


Once you are in the country illegaly none of the avenues to a green card apply ( except marriage).

Please, take the time to read about the pathway to citizenship. It is very costly and out of reach for the vast majority of POOR people, but then that's the point.
No one has a problem with legal immigrants because legal immigrants are overwhelmingly well off and caucasian. How do I know? Look at the requirements, they take money, and lots of it.

The bottom line is that if you're poor and mexican you're not welcome by the American people, though the corporations depend on you and thus your government will continue to do nothing about it.

If you have the cash, the Americans will welcome you with open arms ( especially if you can also throw a ball well or act in bad movies). The corproations depend on you to become part of the flock of sheep who buy their uselss crap under the guise of the "american dream".
America, you've come a long way since....

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Merigold, I've had these conversation with you before. Your either trying to stir up out hate about our immigration laws or you don't read other post to you on this same subject.
Green Card Through Self Petition
In two classifications of immigrant workers, the workers are not required to have a job offer and may self-petition (the worker does not need an employer to sponsor them). These categories include:

Individuals of extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business or athletics, (E11)
Individuals who were granted a National Interest Waivers (NIW), (E21)

Note: You may NOT self petition based on employment, if you are not in one of these two categories,. For other employment based green cards, see the “Green Card Through a Job Offer” or “Green Card Through Investment” links to the left under “Green Card Through a Job.”

Individuals of extraordinary ability are considered to be the best of the best in their field and it is an eligibility category that applies to very few individuals. Examples of who may be considered an E11 immigrant include Nobel Prize winners, notable professional sports players, and others who have achieved great successes in their field.

Application Process
If You Are Living Outside the United States
You can become a permanent resident through consular processing when living outside the United States. Consular processing is when U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) works with the Department of State to issue a visa on an approved Form I-140, Immigrant Petition for Alien Worker, when a visa is available. For more information on consular processing, see the “Consular Processing” link to the left under “Green Card Processes & Procedures.”
Green Card through a Job Offer
If you want to apply for a green card (permanent residence) based on the fact that you have a permanent employment opportunity in the United States, or if you are an employer that wants to sponsor someone for a green card based on permanent employment in the United States, you must go through the following processes.

Unless you are eligible to petition for yourself (see the “Green Card Through Self Petition” to the left), most employment petitions require a job offer and require that the employer petition for the worker. Most employers petition for an employee using Form I-140, Petition for Alien Worker. For more information on how to petition for an employee, see the “Working in the U.S.” link to the right.

Application Process
If You Are Living Outside the United States
You can become a permanent resident through consular processing when living outside the United States. Consular processing is when USCIS works with the Department of State to issue a visa on an approved Form I-140 petition when a visa is available. For more information on consular processing, see the “Consular Processing” link to the left under “Green Card Processes & Procedures.”

And there are many more ways.
As a matter of fact, your F. O. S. You have not investigated uscis.gov fully.
You only want to read one route in to our Country and you want to cry about it to everyone, trying to make us look bad, because your to lazy or just an instigator.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by dontblink
reply to post by hinky
 


You are, of course, correct in your interpretation of the 14th Ammendment. However, the ammendment also states that "all persons, born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States."

These kids are born in the US, making them native-born citizens in accordance with the constitution and granting them all the rights and privledges of any other American citizen. According to the 14th ammendment they cannot have their citizenship taken away without consent. When looking at these facts, denying citizenship to these kids is unconstitutional in my opinion.



You've fallen into the same trap and you are trying to be sympathetic to the children. This is a noble quality, but misplaced.

People within our jurisdiction are only under the jurisdiction when laws are obeyed. This is why there is a system of laws and courts. People who are within a jurisdiction illegally do not fall under the jurisdiction of legal system, until they have enacted a cause for this process.

Having a child does not start the legal process. Committing a crime or applying for citizenship starts this action as the person has accepted the jurisdiction over him. Until there is a reason for the legal system to be involved, this person is illegal within the jurisdiction, but not under the jurisdiction. This is a fine point of law.

The regulations enacted by various agencies of the government have interpreted federal regulations to allow foreign citizens to have "anchor babies" become American citizens. This action by agencies does not make it legal. Many of the regulations were driven by political means and not legal means. It just has never been challenged by a State, before now.

I really think Arizona has solid footing to force this issue and the resulting changes to millions of "Americans".



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 02:04 PM
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Whatever the results of the debate may be, the consensus needs to be reached as soon as possible. The problem still exists and idealization of border security will never solve anything.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by undesirableusername
 


The American public has already spoken as to what the general consensus is, unfortunately our government cares not for the wants of the people.



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