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Powers of the Police

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posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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To begin I want to say do I in no way want to bash the hard working and good natured police officers that do the right thing, good job guys.

I would like to tell you a short story to illustrate my reason for questioning some things


Lamar County (Barnesville), Georgia

My friend and I were travelling from Pennsylvania to Flordia to go visit my Father and Brother do a bit of fishing and drinking, we had made it all the way from PA into Lamar county Georgia with no incident. We came off the beaten path into Barnesville to stop at my sisters house to hang out and relax for a bit before we hit the road again. We were traveling on a road that was designated a 55 mph zone and we were between 2 trucks both of which were all doing about 60 mph, out of no where the truck behind us is pulled over and an unmarked Police Dodge Charger came up on us in a hurry, figuring we didnt do anything wrong we would pull over and this officer would go on ahead about his buisness. We were so wrong about that. We were pulled over and put to the rear of the police cruiser just in time for another officer to arrive. The officers questioning techniques were more like a terrorist/ suspect interrogation like I had learned in the Marine Corps, I wasnt even driving and the officer kept wanting me to speak for my friend about why we were driving so fast, his tone was very abrasive and definatley not a concerned police officer. The officer had kept barking in my face "I know you got narcotics in this car and I'm going to find them." and kept referring back to his backup saying things like "look at this boy shaking like a leaf I know there hiding something", and saying "hes sweating bullets maybe we should sit em down at the station till we get this sorted out." Now I can't illustrate the situation to the effect in which you all can feel and observe what I did but I am going to put it plainly we were being interrogated about drug trafficking over a BS traffic stop, I have no idea were they would have even thought that myself an criminal justice student with my focus on intelligence studies and my friend mike a successful welder would have any kind of drugs, so what do you think happened next? The second officer pulls myself and my buddy to the rear of the other car and starts talking friendly with us saying stuff like oh your a marine I was a soldier and a sniper and talking to my friend about his car saying he liked it and then would ask you sure you dont have marijuana in that car we can take care of a little bit but anything big were going to have to take you in and other basic ploys to admit we had drugs. Anyway, while officer #2 was chit chatting officer #1 thought he was being slick by trying to search the car so my friend says hey officer you dont have any permission to search my vehicle what do you think your doing? Can I just have my traffic ticket so we can leave. This whole process up to this point took almost an hour and we had been driving 18 hours we just wanted to crash and there we are standing in the hot ass Georgia sun with no water and told I couldn't get my water out of the car. So back to Officer #1 he closes the door and says "what did you say boy, your refusing consent" or something to that effect and my buddy said "yes I am not allowing you to search my car over a speeding violation" he had also mentioned that we have been cooperative and do not possess any narcotics, the officer then called for more back up. Now we had 3 cops and a k9 unit the dog walked over to the side of the vehicle and took a leak on shrubbery walked around the car and the cop says yup he tensed up on the chain theres definately something in there. So for the next 45min to an hour my budd and I had all of our travel bags dumped the car ripped apart and everything else you can think of just so the cop can come back with a tiny speck of something green which again wasnt marijuana neither myself or my buddy do drugs and the interogation started again, this time it didnt last so long until they realized we were not criminals nor do we have any drugs or had been drinking, so they wrote us a ticket that said we were doing 75 MPH. So we challenged them again there my friends toyota MR2 was equipped with a tuner chip that not only records engine functions it also records RPMs and MPH at any given time that can be coroborrated with the Garmin GPS for our trip records, any luck, you got it no.

That is the basic jist of what happened to us, but the experiance was so profound to me being for the most part a law abiding citizen and Marine (except for minor infractions in high school playground fight and other BS) that I have to question a few of the following things:

Since the cops can't take my word that their is drugs in the car why do I have to take his with out defense when he says the dog tensed on the chain when I clearly watched the dog just walk around the car this is being used as probable cause.

I would like to question the method in which they used to aquire information out of us in such a way that it was in reality an interrogation and used devious tactics to try and confuse us to get a confession of something we didnt have or do?

In Iraq there is a difference between the fear in a man that is an IED layer, maker, or gun man that has commited a crime and the general population that is scared by foreign military that wield power and carry firearms, in those situations some guys were relatively smooth while others were not point is when i was doing my job in Iraq everyday I could feel things out pretty good the people the terrain mannerisms and all that. Like my situation here i was in a foregin state being stopped by foreign police that carry guns and wield power in which I assume it is their full time job one would think the officers would be able to tell we werent up to anything.
I understand the need for strict drug cops but were do you draw the line in the methods they use to obtain them?
I felt as though I was being violated for no reason and if anyone can help me get a copy of the counties SOP in regards to traffic stops, searches, Suspect handeling, questioning and other things I would really like to pose a letter to the department with my regards and questions concerning their methods. I am afraid the days of protecting and serving are over like there motto says "Confidence, Cooperation, and Financial Responsibilities.

Again thank you to all the officers that do the right thing. Semper




posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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The entire dog thing is a farce. They're trained to false-indicate on demand - it gives the cops free-rein to search anything they'd like. Plus, like "my radar showed you doing 250! No you can't see it!", the cop can simply say it's true and it's unquestionable, no objective proof required.

A real drug dog giving a positive is unmistakable, and it's not "stiffening on the leash", or their input would be so ambiguous as to be useless.

Several things really need to happen, but likely won't. First, the feds need to pass a law at the federal level that nullifies local wire-tapping ordinances, so that any public official may be recorded at any time, on or off duty, in a setting where privacy is not expected, and that "expectation" needs to be spelled out in gory detail. Basically, the only time a cop or politician should expect to be off the record is in their own home, on or off duty. That right to record needs to be backed up with draconian penalties which cops have no limited immunity against. If they confiscate or destroy the record, it ought to be a federal felony, with maybe 5 years minimum. Plunk a few into their own jails and that crap will end.

Having that in hand, you could easily implement a recording system in your car and outside your home that would document crap like this in an unimpeachable fashion. The cops' words are supposed to be more true than yours, yet they fight like mad dogs to prevent you from recording objective evidence. There's a reason.

If you had that sort of evidence, and they weren't real sure if you did or not, you could drag a few of them into court, get your lawyer to make them state over and over their "story", then introduce the recording as surprise refutatory evidence in cross. And away go the cops for a few years for perjury. THAT'S a big reason they don't want recordings. If you use them as evidence, the cops can just drop the charges. But if you introduce it as surprise evidence on cross, they can do time, right then, do not pass go, even in a civil trial.

Uninhibited recording of police, combined with some sort of federal oversight replacing their Internal Affairs function would go a long way towards me trusting them.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


I agree, I just found it alarming that the manner in which they did everything was almost as though they were trained counter insurgency agents or something and these guys were just small town cops. I felt awkward reverting to my SEAR training like a PTSD episode I didnt expect any kind of thing like this over a speeding infraction in which we were between 57 and 63. I now know how they can afford a fleet of chargers in such a small town.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


It's sort of a combo IMHO, their training is now leaning towards this sort of thing, and 90% of them seem to have fantasies about being military or SWAT.

We used to laugh our arses off at them in Huntsville when their uniform choices were widened to include paramilitary looking uniforms. A bunch of them started dressing like some sort of demented Batmen, complete with symmetrically loaded Bat Belts. For the most part, it was the steroid junkies that you know have self-image and narcissism issues anyway.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


Batmans nothing without his utility belt. Id like to get a copy of the states SOP regarding traffic stops, handling suspects since apparently speeding equates to narcotics trafficking, and their interogation methods and who trains them and their dogs all this should be public info but I cant find anything of use haha when i went to the Georgias state page when i typed in police I got hits all regarding police abuse of power but no SOP or anything



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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I've got a friend (haven't seen in years, sadly) that put his Army NOE flight training to use in the "alternative import" biz after he ETSd.

They used to stop Dave and do the faux-dog thing constantly. Apparently he's in some database of DEAs most wanted. He never used, didn't have anything on him, and the vehicle was sterile. But surprisingly the dog ALWAYS gave a positive indication. Always. And they never found anything. But it took him 10x the time to travel, because he'd get stopped on every state crossing and any number of times in-state.

Maybe your vehicle fits some description. I can't believe that they can afford to do such a lavish stop on every speeder.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:39 PM
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my sentiments exactly but considering if there always going to give you a speeding ticket around here regardless if they find something or not my buddies ticket was around $280 thats alot of cash for a speeding ticket. and of course if they get some scared high school kids and make them admit to having smoked marijuana they got them for a DUI if its in their system from days ago or not, how did they afford those new chargers again, there all painted a tactical tan color and all light bars are disguised like you said earlier if only we can protect ourselves with recording devices of our own.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


u my friend have been apart of what's been going on in my city for more than 50yrs this is what Americans have to deal with then their pulled over... interrogated, searched for no reason or suspicion.... they tear your car apart ruin break things and u have to pay for it and 95% of the time they find nothing at all..... this is a normal everyday ocourance where I come from. I'm 24 yrs old and from the time I was 13 I HATE COPS!!!!! ofcourse I understand that there are good cops but most of them are on a power trip and terrorize law abiding citizens..... I'm sorry. truly I am that u had to go thru that. I do not wish that upon any man.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


my old warrant officer used to say "cops pin on their courage and strap on their balls" every time someone mentioned they were gonna get out of the corps and become a cop. he also used to get us all out of speeding tickets on base through face to face meetings with the PMO.

these corporate thugs are "THE SHERIFF OF NOTTINGHAM'S MEN" pure and simple. it is now just like in robin hood...

there are no "good" cops only cowards who are more concerned with own career than standing up to their crooks within.. I should know, after being one of Uncle Sams Misguided Children then transition later into a federal officer myself.. the big headed butter bar mentality is the epitomy of 99% of police today.....ooh rah by the way!



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by rebeldog
 


What I intend to do is when I get ahold of there SOP's I'm going to draft a letter to the department and possibly to the state rep. if by definition that it is every citizens responsibility to know the law then I intend to make it available, although there are laws in which i must follow there are also laws police have to follow thats why they got their SOP's in place if people knew what they are legally bound to can and cannot do then the people can once again keep their cops good cops if they so choose to. this mix and match legal game is out of control the only conspiracy here is stacking paper not justice.

Devilredwings
I feel you man so I've heard some places are like this, back where I live in PA most cops are actually very professional and very community oriented some cops are your typical stereotyped cops and some of them are very good, but then again where I live cops dont have the time or the money to waste on BS in your case cops just make work so they can continue living on the high horse, and people think the UCR and NIVRS are acurate ha those books are so cooked to keep that federal money flowing beautifully. But after that experiance I can now sympathize with yall that have to deal with this all the time



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