Here's what I think happened on 9/11

reply to post by huemaurice1


Go to this thread

Read what WEEDWHACKER, an airline pilot rated in 757/767. and 767DOCTOR , a certified aircraft engineer have to say about your
delusions.....


www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Alfie1


"like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there." Wally Miller a coroner that responded to Shanksville

As for the 'black box' in Flight 93... The FBI has stated that they recovered that recording device, but it's way far too damaged to listen to the recording... Riiiiiiiight. But it turned up four years later with a short recording... Kinda curious why it took so long, and if that's even the real recording.


All jetliners are equipped with flight data recorders (FDRs) and cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) contained in "black boxes" designed to survive the most severe crashes. To date, none of the contents of any of the black boxes have been released to the public, With the exception of a partial transcript of Flight 93's CVR, the contents of any of the black boxes remained unknown to the public until August of 2006, when the National Security Archive published long-hidden NTSB Reports including flight path and other studies of the commandeered flights. The studies include FDR data from Flight 77 and Flight 93. Authorities had previously claimed that all but the voice recorder on Flight 93 were either not recovered or too damaged to yield data. The black boxes of Flight 77 were allegedly found on September 14th. 1 2 3


This book, written by Gail Swanson, and published in 2003, includes accounts of firefighters Mike Bellone, Robert Barrat, and Nicholas DeMasi.
According to the federal authorities controlling Ground Zero, the black boxes from the two crashed 767s, Flight 11 and Flight 175, failed to turn up in the rubble taken from the site. 4 The 9/11 Commission Report backs the FBI's story, flatly stating: "The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found."

There are accounts contradicting the official account of the black boxes. Two men who worked in the cleanup operation at Ground Zero claim that they helped authorities find three of the four black boxes in October of 2001. One of the workers, New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi, has self-published a book with other Ground Zero workers in which he describes the recovery of the devices. 5 The book, Behind the Scenes: GROUND ZERO, A Collection of Personal Accounts, can be ordered through SummerOfTruth.org.

In December 2005, CounterPunch reported that an NTSB source contradicted the official account:

"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here." 6
911research.wtc7.net...

WHY WOULD THE 9/11 COMMISSION CONCLUDE THAT NONE4 OF THE BLACK BOXES WERE FOUND WHEN THE FBI HAD THEM THE WHOLE TIME?! Why would the FBI hide that information?

[edit on 12-6-2010 by monkeySEEmonkeyDO]

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


I am sure that you must be aware that your Wally Miller quote is cherry-picked and misleading. He has explained subsequently that " I said I stopped being a coroner after about 20 minutes because it was perfectly clear what the manner of death was going to be ." " It was a plane crash, but yet it was a homicide because terrorists had hi-jacked the plane and killed the passengers." He said it was technically correct that there were no complete bodies at the crash site, but the recovery operation found many body parts. Are you seriously suggesting he accepts the proposition that there were no body parts at Shanksville ?

So far as UA 93's CVR is concerned can you please point me to any statement from the FBI that it was unreadable ? The recording has never been hidden; it was played to the close relatives of the victims as soon after the event as April 18 2002. Discretion is obviously required when you are dealing with a recording of peoples' last moments but a transcript was released in 2006 after the tape was put in evidence at the Moussaoui trial.

I think the survival of the black boxes from the WTC flights is unproven and that it is not at all surprising if they were hopelessly crushed in the rubble.

reply to post by kiwasabi


I have to agree with you, kiwasabi, you think about this as I do. The whole thing was carefully orchestrated with Dick Cheney in charge from a secret bunker, in case it all went south. It went just as planned, NORAD stood down as ordered, the remote controlled planes found their targets, and the FBI did in fact control the flow of information and knowledge on the crash damage, and a full press control of the press/media. Even the County Coroner could find no blood at the Pennsylvania crash site, and some witnesses claim the plane was shot down, and others claim a helicopter dropped parts of planes at the site. The control factor that came out of this thing changed the face of American Freedom. We got the Patriot Act, pushed through Congress without being read, and no wonder....it is so confusing it took me three years to fully understand what it all means. All power was transferred to the Executive Branch by George Bush, and Obama still keeps it all in place, while all the time presenting a nice face to the people, and pretending on a separation of powers. Some believe he is a CIA trained plant. Our only hope is our military, for they are us, after all, and I would support a military takeover, provided the 1787 Constitution was followed to the letter.

The Powers That Be are planning for something big, just look around in this site for evidence of that....deep underground bases, and the spaceport in Denver, the Seed Ark, the secret library of things and accomplishments we have made, our sacred documents, records, files, DNA database. All these things TPTB have stored away, for what reason? They are not telling us, that much is clear. They wish to keep us confused, and it's working, isn't it?

reply to post by autowrench

Our only hope is our military, for they are us, after all, and I would support a military takeover, provided the 1787 Constitution was followed to the letter.

Advocating armed insurrection, in a 9/11 thread??

AFTER, I should add, getting all of your facts wrong, in the beginning of the diatribe, before the stunning statement above.


Yes....let's do go back to the "1787 Constitution"...only this time, let's switch it around.

'WHITE' people will be the slaves, owned by the 'Black' people. ONLY women will be allowed to vote, not men.

Later, we can see how things turn out when the 'WHITE' people are granted 'freedom', but only count as 3/5 of a "person"...

Yes...indeed...the "1787 Constitution"..A fine, fine example to aspire to....




[edit on 12 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

Just a gentle reminder, folks...

Personalities stay away...

Civility is mandatory. Commentary about members is not on, folks. The topic is the OP's theory of what happened. Attack the theory, not each other.

The new rules of conduct still apply, and will be applied as necessary.

Now then, on with the polite, on topic conversation.

reply to post by kiwasabi


OK...the topic:

Also, extra blips were added to the radars to further the confusion.

This doesn't sound right, isn't mentioned anywhere except on fringe "conspiracy" sites. Care to cite a valid source for this claim?

There never was a Flight 11, 77, 93, or 175...

This is demonstrably false, and easily proven to be incorrect.

Check out a website: www.bts.gov...

... the government bribed (and/or threatened) the airlines to go along with their story.

Cite the source. Otherwise, it is a baseless, vile and a very mean-spirited lie. It demeans, and insults, the memories of the vicitims.

All of the crashes were faked with special effects.

Utter fabrication.

The extra planes were accounted for by the extra blips on the radar; so they were essentially ghost planes.

Completely, utterly wrong. It has no basis in fact, nor in available technology. UNLESS you can find a verifiable source to support it, it is yet just another lie promoted by many "conspiracy" sites that abound.

The 2 World Trade Center crashes were carried out by remotely controlled military planes (neither of the planes had any sort of commercial airline identifying marks).

Well...again...totally off base, and lacking any basis in fact.

The WTC building 2 was hit by only ONE airplane, a United Airlines Boeing 767-222/ER, FAA registration N612UA, operated as flight 175 on a regularly scheduled passenger flight from KBOS to KLAX.

Here is a photo of UAL 175:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dc94c4dbe6eb.jpg[/atsimg]

It depicts a typical paint scheme for United Airlines. What might cause some confusion is, UAL has a history of chanign paint scheme designs quite frequently, so at any given time you will see their fleet in "transition", as airplanes are re-painted painted gradually.

Here is another United B-767, in same paint scheme as UAL 175 was:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/69780aa25c77.jpg[/atsimg]

It is from a more oblique angle, but you can always watch the great number of videos from that day, to compare.

You can also research MORE varying paint schemes, for further information, here: www.airliners.net...

Enter the desired search parameters. Those photos are all copyrighted, so I don't embed them here, although they can, of course, be linked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From you post below, in response:

Originally posted by kiwasabi
Regarding the airlines, I'm not sure how they were silenced, but they obviously had to have been since none of those flights were scheduled to fly that day.

Once again, for your own eyes to ponder, the link to prove that, indeed...the flights WERE scheduled that day...and the day before, and the day before that. www.bts.gov...

Navigation on the site should be inuitive. Look at 'Statistics', and just fill in the selections desired.

Note about United 93, however. United Airlines instituted a schedule change in early September, 2001 (I think it occured on the 5th). SO, UAL 93, from KEWR - KSFO will not come up before that date. However, it DID operate every day since the change, to include the 11th September.


Oh, and BTW -- that's twice, I've posted a source...same source, granted. BUT, my other points apply, and are shown. I happen to know a little something or other, about ATC radar...so burden falls to you to show the proof of the claims made.

(Hint for your research: The actual ATC radar scopes are NOT the same as the ones they use for training...the ones that CAN display 'fake' returns...) And, there wouldn't be 'fake' returns during live traffic handling operations, for safety reasons.






[edit on 12 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Does anybody have a credible source for the extra blips on the radar? Just because our "free press" didn't report on it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

So weedwhacker, based on how you denied every single part of my theory (without using any sources yourself), I take it you agree with the official story?

Regarding the airlines, I'm not sure how they were silenced, but they obviously had to have been since none of those flights were scheduled to fly that day. And, of course, obviously no plane hit the Pentagon or crashed in Shanksville.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]

"Read what WEEDWHACKER, an airline pilot rated in 757/767. and 767DOCTOR , a certified aircraft engineer have to say about your
delusions....."

Are we supposed to be impressed by Weedwhacker's qualifications since, according to the Official Fable, any prehistoric untrained cavedweller can easily fly a 757/767 and perform highly unlikely maneuvers which would leave even the best Air Force pilots in the land scratching their heads? How's that for delusions?

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


Hey, it was only a 270 degree turn; that's only like a U-turn and a half... in a large aircraft with a poor turning radius.

Originally posted by kiwasabi
Regarding the airlines, I'm not sure how they were silenced, but they obviously had to have been since none of those flights were scheduled to fly that day.
[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]

Ahem...

BTS Database


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7c4d1b073cef.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2623e3c8a9e7.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b2715af81bab.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e39acbb274a6.jpg[/atsimg]




Passenger Manifests

United 175

United 93

American 77

American 11






Air Traffic Control Transcripts

AA11

AA77

UA175

UA93









You were saying? And how long have you been truthing? You had to know that there is absolutely no way we were going to let you get away with that, right? So why did you make that statment, knowing full well that you cannot back it up with evidence(like I did to the contrary)?

I'm just asking questions.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

Are we supposed to be impressed by Weedwhacker's qualifications since, according to the Official Fable, any prehistoric untrained cavedweller can easily fly a 757/767 and perform highly unlikely maneuvers which would leave even the best Air Force pilots in the land scratching their heads? How's that for delusions?

I've already pointed out to you that the 9/11 hijackers had pilots licenses(Hanjour had a Commercial Certifciate meaning he could fly for hire), and simulator training, as well as 757/767 specific training manuals/training aids. I had assumed you were just ignorant at the time, but now I see that the truth is the last thing you are looking for since you have just resorted to repeating lies and beating up strawmen.

btw, Prehistoric cave dwellers? Really? Racist much?

reply to post by 767doctor


Completely faked. Tail numbers unknown? Departure time of 00:00 o'clock for Flight 77? Give me a break.

Oh and 0 actual minutes travel time for Flight 175? Yeah, I guess that's true since it never took off that day.



[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]

reply to post by 767doctor


There weren't any hijackers. The only "hijackers" are alive and well and would like to know why the government used their identities.

Originally posted by kiwasabi
reply to post by 767doctor

 

Completely faked. Tail numbers unknown? Departure time of 00:00 o'clock for Flight 77? Give me a break.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]

Thats your retort, huh? Everything is faked. BTS data, ATC radio calls, ATC radar data, DNA of the passengers. All fakedy fake. You do realize you could make a conspiracy out of absolutely anything at all by claiming all supporting evidence is fake? What you must then do is provide evidence to back up your assertion, like I did. Then we may take your claims seriously.

So show me your evidence that the flights weren't scheduled.

BTW, if the BTS data was faked to support the conspiracy, it would show tail numbers, and completed departure times. That it doesn't pretty much means it isn't fake.



[edit on 12-6-2010 by 767doctor]

reply to post by 767doctor


So if they did take off and did as the official story reported, where is the plane wreckage at the Shanksville crash site? I guess the plane imploded just like the WTC?

Originally posted by kiwasabi

The crumbling of the World Trade Center buildings was also the work of well-placed explosives. These buildings had recently undergone a $1 billion renovation by Marvin Bush (George W. Bush's brother). Explosives were implanted as part of this "renovation".

I never knew this. Could you provide a link to any information regarding the renovations?

Originally posted by ovenden

Originally posted by kiwasabi

The crumbling of the World Trade Center buildings was also the work of well-placed explosives. These buildings had recently undergone a $1 billion renovation by Marvin Bush (George W. Bush's brother). Explosives were implanted as part of this "renovation".

I never knew this. Could you provide a link to any information regarding the renovations?

Here are some links of interest. This is one of those facts that has been buried, so there aren't many credible sources on the matter (Alex Jones is the one that I first heard it from):

www.infowars.com...
video.google.com...#
www.commondreams.org...
whatreallyhappened.com...

[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]

reply to post by kiwasabi



WTF are you talking about? There is all kinds of debris at the Shanksville site, which is consistent with a high speed, nearly vertical crash.

Do you also believe that PSA 1771 was an inside job?

The plane was estimated to have crashed nose first at a speed of around 700 miles per hour (1100 km/h, 600 kn), disintegrating instantly. The force of the impact caused such extensive damage that 27 of the passengers were never identified.

What about Valujet 592? What about Emery 17? The Canberra Bomber crash?

The aircraft was described as flying "low and fast" when suddenly it entered a steep dive, with no apparent attempt to pull out, striking the ground at an angle of approx. 80 degrees at an estimated speed of 400-450kts. WD991 instantly completely disintegrated, scattering wreckage for some 600 yards beyond the main impact crater and sending a column of black smoke into the sky. Fortunately the impact was in open farmland and the only nearby building - a bungalow on Valentine Lane - was peppered with debris, shattering all the windows facing the impact and tearing several holes in the roof.

Boy, that sounds awfully familiar!




[edit on 12-6-2010 by 767doctor]

Originally posted by 767doctor
WTF are you talking about? There is all kinds of debris at the Shanksville site, which is consistent with a high speed, nearly vertical crash.

Watch from 1:25 of this video and then still tell me there was "all kinds of debris":

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]