Here's what I think happened on 9/11

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posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by airvicemarshal
Central foolish assumptions that you make include these:-

1. That only one crime was committed, event though there was clearly more than one crime, in essence, two types of crime committed. A/ Crimes associated with mass murder b/ Crimes associated with the coverup. As many were in such shock and many foolishly act out of a sense of patriotism, it is quite possible that many committing the second set of crimes were not assoicated with the first set.


I was just making my theory concise, I think there were all kinds of crimes committed that day. The major two were crimes against humanity/mass murder and massive amounts of fraud.


Originally posted by airvicemarshal
2. That if Bin Laden did not do this mass murder, then only the US Governement could have done it,. This is howlingly stupid and has not a shred of evidence to support this blind exclusion of all other possible suspects.


The US government is the only entity that could pull off a hoax of this magnitude inside of the US.


Originally posted by airvicemarshal
3. You make no real consideration of the MOTIVES.


Again, in an effort to make my theory concise, I focused on the HOW rather than the WHY.

Why did they do it? Why does any corrupt individual perform any corrupt act? MONEY and POWER. Both of which the Bush Administration had no shortage of after 9/11.


Originally posted by airvicemarshal
4. You make the crass assumption that those who did this were traitors to the US and yet were patriotic enough to only "buy AMerican" and olnly use AMerican kit. THis is outrageously stupid. If people are going to consider mass murder and want to avoid going to the electric chiar, they would never even remotely consider which country's equipment they would use.


Huh? You're really grasping at straws here.


Originally posted by airvicemarshal
5. You work on the basis that "everyone's in it" when the basic workings of a conspiracy mean that the memebers will always try to keep their numbers low to avoid accidental leaks and people coming forward due to conscience and admitting to have done it.


The number of people who know the entire plan is very low. It's not like the military personnel performing the Wargames knew what the Bush Administration was up to. Likewise, the firefighters and police officers had no idea of what was going on. I think the reason that so many of them died that day was that some found out too much and refused to go along with the official story, so they were killed by the FBI and/or CIA.


Originally posted by airvicemarshal
A central proble for your thougths which leaves you open to criticism is the basic problem that the "truthers' have persistently faced, that, if it was the Government, why hasn't anyone broken ranks and come forward? I believe that there is an answer to this,b tu you are missing it.


Ever heard of Barry Jennings?




posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 02:45 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Hawkiye, I never thought about it that way, very good points about the "diamond formation" strategy of the disinformation personnel. Everybody, please watch out for this.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by kiwasabi
 


So I've noticed a huge amount of resistance from people while trying to convince them that 9/11 was a farce.


Great thread, S&F
I agree with you, however I don’t believe that all of these people are that ignorant, or can’t think critically, or logically. It is my belief there are people paid to sit on ATS 911 forums and discourage people from participating in civil discussions by deliberately bait goad and to persistently attack by insulting and ridiculing the truth and the messengers.

It does not matter what you say, it does not matter what evidences you present, it is always dismiss and ignored.

Some of these OS believers are not that ignorant some have collage level writing skills while other do not. In my opinion the collage levels OS believers who have been on ATS for a long time, are paid thread de-railers, that is my opinion.

I believe 911 was an inside job and the government has a whole lot to hide. If most of the American people knew, what some of us already know, there would be the biggest upraising that this country has ever seen against this corrupt government and the American people will be demanding accountability, or (We The People) will remove the powers that be, if necessary.


It seems as though the more evidence that's presented to contradict the government's official story, the more people cling to it. People are completely unwilling to admit that they were manipulated.


This certainly seems to be true, people are taught from an early age that our governments are good and certainly would not betray us, much less commit a false flag on the American people, on American soil. It is too horrific and unbelievable to accept this fact, for some. Some just go completely in denial because it is easier for them and frankly they just don’t want to know the truth. If they knew the truth then they might have to put their lives on hold, and try to do something about it, like the truth movement is doing now.


After all of my research, I've come to the following conclusions:
1) The acts were carried out in ways that allowed the government to completely control the evidence.
2) The acts were carried out in such a way as to minimize casualties in every possible way.


I agree with this, it is the same conclusion I came to as well.


The 2 World Trade Center crashes were carried out by remotely controlled military planes (neither of the planes had any sort of commercial airline identifying marks).


I agree with you on this to.

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage


pilotsfor911truth.org...



The Pentagon and Pennsylvania "crashes" were just detonated explosives with some carefully prepared evidence placed; this explains why such a lack of wreckage exists at these two sites. Keep in mind that the part of the Pentagon that was "hit" was the recently renovated wing; and nobody in the Pentagon was killed. The bombs were placed there during the renovation.


In the earlier photos taken at the Pentagon before the pentagon collapse, there are no visible crash debris on the pentagon lawn. Photos taken later on after pentagon collapse shows some airplane debris we know they are planted bone yard airplane parts photos tell the truth in this case. Assuming they are bone yard scraps this explains why the government doesn’t want the airplanes crash debris identified.


The crumbling of the World Trade Center buildings was also the work of well-placed explosives. These buildings had recently undergone a $1 billion renovation by Marvin Bush (George W. Bush's brother). Explosives were implanted as part of this "renovation".


It certainly appears that way, however this also explains why there are were highly explosive chemicals found in all the WTC dust samples. The chemicals that were documented by scientist were an ingredient that our military uses in making weapons and bombs, Super na-no Thermite and Super na-no Thermate, which had no business being at the WTC complex in the first place.


The media were completely controlled by the FBI on this day. All of their information was provided directly from the FBI, including eyewitnesses, facts, etc.


Absolutely true, the OS is from the FBI, NIST, The 911 Commission Report. It is a fact that the FBI was controlling all information and withholding information from the public it is a known fact that the FBI helped in the cover- up, it is a well known fact that the FBI put gag orders on the NYC Firemen, NYC Police, FAA, and the Airline Companies. If there was nothing to hide, then why silence everyone?


Meanwhile, several FBI agents were pushing the neo-con US government's agenda, such as this quote that always sticks with me, "It's great to live in such a free society, but having everything so free makes it very difficult for us to prevent events like this from happening. This is why things are really going to have to change after this".


I remember hearing that quote; we are the riches nation on planet earth. We have the most sophisticated spy rings world wide, with the greatest technologies in our military and weapons application, yet the FBI wants the American people to believe we are no better off than a third world country, when it come to protecting our interests.


Osama Bin Laden is just our fall-guy. We worked with him in defending Afghanistan from Russia back in the late 70's, and I'm led to believe that he either A) Still works for us or B) Is dead, and we're just using him as a scapegoat.


This is most likely true, especially when we have the most gag woman in America blowing the whistle, that Bin Laden was working for the United States until 911.


Ryland: A Sibel EdMonds’ Bombshell”- Bin Laden Worked For U.S. Until 9/11

After explaining the difference between what she does and doesn't know first hand, she went on to explain: "I have information about things that our government has lied to us about. I know. For example, to say that since the fall of the Soviet Union we ceased all of our intimate relationship with Bin Laden and the Taliban - those things can be proven as lies, very easily, based on the information they classified in my case, because we did carry very intimate relationship with these people, and it involves Central Asia, all the way up to September 11." ...


www.bradblog.com...



CIA Vet: FBI Whistleblower Edmonds 'Very Credible'

This is something that, presumably, if the mainstream media were interested in it, would be a line of inquiry that would lead to a major investigation. ... I'm a former intelligence officer, I find her very credible. And of course, as a former intelligence officer, I'm normally suspicious of these kinds of stories. In this case, John Cole, who obviously had direct access to the investigations going on, is confirming her story.


www.bradblog.com...

[edit on 12-6-2010 by impressme]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


You are correct, I've noticed this behavior myself. People act like the 911 conspiracy is total hogwash that noone believes here, while for instance the ATS 911 poll showed that among the participants, around 95% doesn't believe the OS.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:45 AM
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I believe it was seen as a good chance by the government, for the government to promote and GET their agenda goals met and they decided not to act as swiftly. Or, delayed the reaction of the military in a manner that prevented them from getting to NYC and the Pentagon. After that they got flight 93. Or is that just too simple for anyone?



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by mikelee
 


That's still high treason, and still doesn't explain why they had buildings wired with explosives beforehand.

@ kiwasabi: Lol, great minds.



[edit on 12-6-2010 by Point of No Return]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by mikelee
I believe it was seen as a good chance by the government, for the government to promote and GET their agenda goals met and they decided not to act as swiftly. Or, delayed the reaction of the military in a manner that prevented them from getting to NYC and the Pentagon. After that they got flight 93. Or is that just too simple for anyone?


It's pretty hard to believe this once you realize the huge amount of pre-planted explosives that were used.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by Point of No Return
 


I seen a couple of photos from people saying thats what the pics showed. But they didn't. It was CAT 5 black colored cable for their computer system like typcial offices have nowadays.

Don't know if those are the ones you reference?



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by kiwasabi
 


Whoever said that the WHOLE tower had to be wired? Thats a big job no doubt. But if they figured out the lines of attack and say, had the planes hit at above floor 60 for example, then the only part they would need to wire if they used that setup but, would be predetermined spot and go up. gravity takes care o fthe rest.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:01 AM
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So you're going from saying you think the government just allowed it to happen...


Originally posted by mikelee
I believe it was seen as a good chance by the government, for the government to promote and GET their agenda goals met and they decided not to act as swiftly. Or, delayed the reaction of the military in a manner that prevented them from getting to NYC and the Pentagon. After that they got flight 93. Or is that just too simple for anyone?


...to talking about how they rigged the explosives?


Originally posted by mikelee
Whoever said that the WHOLE tower had to be wired? Thats a big job no doubt. But if they figured out the lines of attack and say, had the planes hit at above floor 60 for example, then the only part they would need to wire if they used that setup but, would be predetermined spot and go up. gravity takes care o fthe rest.




[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by kiwasabi
 


Jeah, like I pointed out in his "I changed my mind" thread, he is so confused right now that he believes in both the OS, and the conspiracy theory.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
reply to post by kiwasabi
 


Like I said, the ONLY confirmed action that took place on that day was the 2 planes hitting the Twin Towers. Everything else the government said happened is in question.

I actually have a friend who's relative was working in the FBI when 9/11 happened, and he said that the Shanksville plane was shot down. Even that doesn't make sense b/c of the ground damage, and the fact that no passenger was ever found. Then you have to ask yourself why the FBI isn't releasing the 'black box' recording from that plane? What are they hiding?

I understand why you assume that planes were never flown, but when you say the government bribed/threatened airliners, then it opens you up for alot of questioning


Are you being deliberately evasive when you say " no passenger was ever found " ? or are you genuinely unaware that hundreds of body parts were recovered and dna identified by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology as belonging to 33 passengers and 7 crew members of UA 93 ?

Both "black boxes" from UA 93 were recovered, the Flight Data Recorder and the Cockpit Voice Recorder. Which " black box " are you referring to ?
Again, are you unaware that the CVR recording was put in evidence and heard at the Moussaoui trial and has been played to close relatives of the victims ? ( there are plenty of transcripts on the net if you care to look )and the FDR places UA 93 at Shanksville and also shows that all monitored systems were working normally until impact which does not support any shoot-down theory.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by Alfie1
Are you being deliberately evasive when you say " no passenger was ever found " ? or are you genuinely unaware that hundreds of body parts were recovered and dna identified by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology as belonging to 33 passengers and 7 crew members of UA 93 ?


And I suppose they recovered every last scrap of the plane as well while they were at it?



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 05:03 AM
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Impressme, thanks for the intelligent reply. I was wondering if you could elaborate on this quote and provide some links:

"it is a well known fact that the FBI put gag orders on the NYC Firemen, NYC Police, FAA, and the Airline Companies. If there was nothing to hide, then why silence everyone? "

Is this how they got the airline companies to not speak out about the fact that these flights weren't even scheduled to run on September 11th?

[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by kiwasabi

Originally posted by Alfie1
Are you being deliberately evasive when you say " no passenger was ever found " ? or are you genuinely unaware that hundreds of body parts were recovered and dna identified by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology as belonging to 33 passengers and 7 crew members of UA 93 ?


And I suppose they recovered every last scrap of the plane as well while they were at it?


Why don't you argue with what I did say rather than making stuff up which I didn't ? Is it that you cannot ?



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by Alfie1
Why don't you argue with what I did say rather than making stuff up which I didn't ? Is it that you cannot ?


Eyewitnesses reported seeing no bodies or body parts. There are a lot of pictures and video of the smoking bomb crater known as the Flight 93 crash site, and yet none of these show a scrap of human flesh.

The only evidence of human remains is that which the criminal (our government) claims to have found.

Once again, for reference, here is what a real plane crash site looks like. Compare these to the images of the Flight 93 crash site and tell me with a straight face that a plane actually crashed in Shanksville.
news.yahoo.com...

[edit on 12-6-2010 by kiwasabi]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by kiwasabi
 


So you are an air crash investigator?

Please explain the difference between a low speed, low angle crash like the one you deascribed and a high speed, high angle crash

You are aware that the crash described was a LANDING ACCIDENT where the plane overran the runway

United 93 hit at speed of 575 mph nose down at 40 deg angle on its back

Therefore your comparison are invalid from the start

Here is description of a high speed crash



Four people, two crew members and two passengers, were believed by Federal investigators and the police to have been aboard the Lear 35 jet. The police could not confirm the number, or identities, of the victims ''We're dealing with body parts, not bodies,'' Chief Joseph Ranney said. ''Identification will be very difficult.'' Airplane parts were scattered in small pieces throughout the site on Garrett Mountain. Flames Higher Than Treetops





At the site, at Rifle Camp Road and Washington Drive near the Great Notch Reservoir, Federal, police and fire investigators sifted through the remains. The parts of the plane were scattered beneath trees, shrubs and rocks, and the smell of jet fuel permeated the air. The residents of nearby homes and the condomnium complex said the explosion rattled their homes and the flames lighted the early morning sky.



I have first hand knowledge of this as it crashed right down street from me

Spent the next morning walking the crash scene marking BODY PARTS
for the coroner to recover

Thats right - BODY PARTS!

Because in a high speed crash there are no recognizable bodies - just
scraps of tissue



"High impact disasters, such as airplane crashes, typically result in severe fragmentation and degradation of human remains." Forensic aspects of mass disasters: Strategic considerations for DNA-based human identification. Budowle, Bieberb, Eisenbergc. Legal Medicine 7, 230–243, March 2005


The aircraft is reduced to "metallic confetti" with a few larger pieces
surviving



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by thedman
 


Hi all!

Why the towers fell so quickly?
= With scalar weapon.
Scalar technology lets you control a remote aircraft. Autopilot. Blank planes that take off, fly and percutent the WTC.
Where are the aircraft? Were they to disappear thermite filled?
Silverstein is not scalar weapon. But, it has within.
___________________________________

Bonjour à tous !

Pourquoi les tours sont tombés si vite ?
= Avec l'arme scalaire.
La technologie scalaire permet de piloter un avion a distance. Pilotage automatique. Avions vides qui décollent, volent et percutent le WTC.
Où sont les avions ? Étaient ils remplis de thermite pour disparaître ?
Silverstein n'a pas l'arme scalaire. Mais, il a des sous.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread582447/pg2#pid9004466]post by kiwasabi

The local Coroner Wally Miller and literally hundreds of searchers recovered some 1500 body parts, weighing about 600 pounds in total, from the Shanksville site. Are they all " in on it " ? is the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology who did the testing ?



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by impressme
 


Impressme, you really do seem to live in a world of your own. Are you seriously suggesting that the FBI gagged the media, the NYC firemen, the NYC police, the FAA and the Airline Companies ? !

And this gagging has remained 100 % effective over all subsequent years even when there was a change of administration ? Not a soul broke ranks, even anonymously or on their deathbed ?

If you believe that you truly will believe anything.





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