It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

What is a convincing argument for the existence of God?

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 10:27 AM
link   
My parents are from two different faiths, they agreed not to influence my upbringing therefore I was not instructed in any religion.

Now I lean towards Atheism (Pantheism at best)

What is a convincing argument for the existence of God?

Tks.




posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 11:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Ersatz
 




There isn't one, or at least one that is logical and doesn't rely on Imagination or faith.

That's basically what it boils down to.... faith.

People would argue that our DNA and things like the Fibonacci sequence in nature are proof of the existence of god.... but again, this requires faith and massive leaps toward something without really being based on anything.

Stick with where you're at man.
And believe what you believe and what feels right and real to you.

Peace



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:00 PM
link   
reply to post by Ersatz
 



You can’t get something out of nothing…

And

Peoples/Historical testimonies…



- JC



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 01:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ersatz
My parents are from two different faiths, they agreed not to influence my upbringing therefore I was not instructed in any religion.

Now I lean towards Atheism (Pantheism at best)

What is a convincing argument for the existence of God?

Tks.


George Muller
Müller never made requests for financial support, nor did he go into debt, even though five orphan homes cost over £100,000 to build. Many times, he received unsolicited food donations only hours before they were needed to feed the children, further strengthening his faith in God. For example, on one well-documented occasion, they gave thanks for breakfast when all the children were sitting at the table, even though there was nothing to eat in the house. As they finished praying, a baker knocked on the door with sufficient fresh bread to feed everyone

[edit on 6/11/2010 by texastig]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 02:03 PM
link   
1.Nature.

2.The complexity of the human body and Earth. The population growth looks like it started around 6,000 years ago.


3. 2000 years of saints miracles, scientifically tested eucharistic miracles. Padre Pio, stigmatist ect.

4. Countless saints seen christ in the spirit. 12 apostles did and wrote down his life story for generations to come, not to mention the predicted prophecies of his coming through ancient scripture.


5. I myself and my family have seen miracles that is out of the realm of the natural.

You want to come over my house I'll explain.


6. The predicted WW 3 by countless saints 100s of years ago. They predicted cars, planes, nukes, and all those things before they existed. The NWO microchip age which we are about to enter, one world governement, can't buy without a device in the skin which revelations 13 predicts.


7. Because love and emotions exist. For nothing to create all those good things is impossible imo. It doesn't just happen. The orgasm. A mind is behind all this.



peace OP.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 02:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Ersatz
 



You can’t get something out of nothing…

And

Peoples/Historical testimonies…

JC


What about Gods, do they pop out of nothing?

Has it ever been demonstrated that a God exist and is active in the Universe?

The James Randy educatinal Foundation offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place.

I don't believe the money has ever been won by anybody.

All the best.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 03:08 PM
link   


What is a convincing argument for the existence of God?


You have to come to that conclusion yourself, we can't do it for you.

(Looking at Hubble pictures helps me though)



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 06:55 PM
link   
An arguement for the existance of God...

Theres a good question.

I think we could say that a God, or Gods exists due to the history of the human race.
Countless texts and documents refere to the worship of a supreme beign. Be they the Christian God or Muslim messiah.
We can go past them to the Pagen Gods that where each worshipped and represented diffrent things.
This deep instillment of belife must have been impossed on us and must have made such a drastic impact on our ancestors, that we took to worshipping some higher beign.
Or in some cases, worshipping our planet and all the things it provides us.

Maybe our idea of what God is has been so contorted we will never know what God really is.
The way diffrent belief systems form, diffrent ideals, all closely linked together crossing paths, yet, they all have that fundamental, that there is an Allmighty.

Maybe we're Gods ourselfs..?

Or maybe God watches over us unbeknownst to all...

Or maybe there isnt a God, and its just a contrived ideal to bring identity and order to people..?



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 08:00 PM
link   
reply to post by Ersatz
 





Originally posted by Ersatz
What about Gods, do they pop out of nothing?


If you think about it, the same argument could be applied to anything…for example…

What about all the elements, do they pop out of nothing?

So to avoid going round in circles….

You can’t get something out of nothing, this is basic logic; something must have always existed.
You essentially have 2 options:

(1) God always existed and created everything else that exists.

(2) All the elements in the universe, always existed, they somehow formed themselves and happened! everything else that exists, by chance.

From a probability perspective, I personally decided to go with option 1.


- JC



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 02:29 AM
link   
Do you want to believe in a Creator ?

Listen to what your 'inner' tells you; basically, go with what you feel. If you yourself want to find a convincing argument for the existence of Creation or a Creator, then you yourself need to research, travel and learn on your own terms, not from what other people tell you.
Others can offer advice but you ultimately decide.
Learn from whatever you can, go wherever you can. However, it is important to take notice of what you feel drawn to. Perhaps there is no universal truth for everyone. Go with what works for you.
What 'convinces' me of such a thing is the fact that I co-create the world that I live in from the inner. I have observed it myself and I need no one else's input, neither do I impose my ideals onto anyone else.
I will refer you to this quote:


Believe nothing on the faith of traditions,
even though they have been held in honour
for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
persauding yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority
of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself
have tested and found to be reasonable,
and conform your conduct thereto.


Good luck


Originally posted by Signals



What is a convincing argument for the existence of God?


You have to come to that conclusion yourself, we can't do it for you.

(Looking at Hubble pictures helps me though)


Wonderfully written

[edit on 12/6/10 by pretty_vacant]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 11:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ersatz
My parents are from two different faiths, they agreed not to influence my upbringing therefore I was not instructed in any religion.

Now I lean towards Atheism (Pantheism at best)

What is a convincing argument for the existence of God?

Tks.
The only "convincing" argument you'll accept is a personal experience. So if you truly want to know if God exists or not. Pray to Him and ask with all your heart. Talk to him as if he is your Father and best friend on the Earth. If you honestly are looking for Him and want to know if He exists or not, simply ask.

And when you least expect, it, He will get your attention.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 11:37 AM
link   
My personal favorite has always been the fulfillment of prophecy. Even the Bible mentions it is how we will know He proves Himself to us.




posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 12:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by AshleyD
My personal favorite has always been the fulfillment of prophecy. Even the Bible mentions it is how we will know He proves Himself to us.

Yes, Isaiah 46:10


"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:28 AM
link   
reply to post by Ersatz
 


The best argument I can give you is the one I struggle with. For the record I do not follow any faith or religion but I do believe in god the creator and here is why:

No matter what science uses to exlain create/the begining eg. the big bang.. you can still ask yourself the question - And what came before that? What made that happen. You can also do this for god, well where did god come from? but here is where it comes down to faith and the only thing that gives me faith in god is that when we as human's are faced circumstances where we feel helpless even athiest's will pray. In your head you plead to whatever it is saying 'please help me'
now my scientific side tells me this could be a defense mechanism... but if we are truely feeling helpless then why would we feel 'praying' or asking for help to nothing is going to do anything and what purpose would this serve us? It will always come back to faith my friend you will not find your answers here or from religion or from science... you must find the answer within you.

For me it comes down to asking does this world look like something created by randomness or does this world have a harmony and complimentary components that could only come from a creator... for me I see this harmony in the world that can not come from random events and could only be caused by a creator.

Another reason I believe in god is because every culture throughout history has had a god - therefore I believe we all have something installed in use to believe in god from the begining, and since I believe it is impossible for science to disproove god or to proove god based off the phycal universe as either way you can always ask what came before that I believe this is the best proof that there is something more to life and that god is real.

For a more scientific and logical approach

There is no known scientific law that would allow one kind of creature to turn naturally into a completely different kind. Insects don't evolve into more complex non-insects for instance, because they don't have the genes to do it.


All physical things, even mountains, boulders, and rivers, come into being and go out of existence, no matter how long they last. Therefore, since time is infinite, there must be some time at which none of these things existed. But if there were nothing at that point in time, how could there be anything at all now, since nothing cannot cause anything? Thus, there must always have been at least one necessary thing that is eternal, which is God.
Source: mb-soft.com...

[edit on 13-6-2010 by byteshertz]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by byteshertz]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by byteshertz]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 12:48 PM
link   
Well,you may consider this.

There is no reason to believe in a religious(political)version of god.

It is nothing more than mortal mans version(opinion) of a deity.

You will find what you are looking for if you spend time outside in nature away from humans.

Find a place far away from"civilization" and spend sometime.

Recline in a field at night and observe the sky.

There you will find absolute evidence of the natural God.

Everything you can see and all that you can not is god.

The Uni(ONE)-verse.

Man can not deny THAT exists.

The Uni(ONE)-verse has always existed and always will.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 02:21 PM
link   
reply to post by Ersatz
 


Walk on the earth you will find many great signs of His existence. Still cannot find the answer than think about your own creation. You will find many wonders in it. Still doesnt click of His existance, than you may die and will come to know in life hereafter.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 03:07 PM
link   
There are things about the universe that we do not understand, therefore there must be a God. Now don't take me for another ignorant Christian, because I have heard this same argument from Christians and they manage to make their argument seem completely ridiculous; I'm saying this from a non-Christian perspective.

The fact that we can't comprehend the world we live in shows that a force more powerful than we can ever be is responsible for our existence. This force is God.

We humans are like plants in a garden. We don't understand how we were planted because we don't have eyes to see. We don't know where we are going because we don't have hands to feel. We don't know when the gardener is talking to us because we don't have ears to hear. We are plants, and God is the gardener. A plant does not understand why it lives, only we, the gardener can because the gardener has a purpose for every plant. While the plant has no senses, the gardener has the five human senses. Similarly, while we have five senses, God has even more senses. Since with our five senses we cannot comprehend our universe, there must be more senses that we don't possess, and a being that possesses these senses would be a God.

If a plant asks itself how does the universe work, it would provide a very basic explanation for the universe because it only experiences without our five senses, so no matter what the plant says there would always be an infinite amount of unexplainable aspects to the universe. Ask humans for an explanation of the universe and we can provide a complicated and thorough explanation of the universe, but it is always incomplete, and the questions that arise regarding our universe seems infinite to us.

So you see, a God has to exist, not necessarily the God of our religions or a transcendent God, but a God nonetheless.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 03:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by Oneolddude
Well,you may consider this.

There is no reason to believe in a religious(political)version of god.

It is nothing more than mortal mans version(opinion) of a deity.

You will find what you are looking for if you spend time outside in nature away from humans.

Find a place far away from"civilization" and spend sometime.

Recline in a field at night and observe the sky.

There you will find absolute evidence of the natural God.

Everything you can see and all that you can not is god.

The Uni(ONE)-verse.

Man can not deny THAT exists.

The Uni(ONE)-verse has always existed and always will.



This is great, this is exactly how I came up with my argument for the existence of God. I saw the night sky and could not understand it and said wow, I don't even know why I am here, or how the Earth ended up in the solar system, and there were an infinite number of questions that couldn't be answered. Then I looked at a plant and said wow, I am a lot like you. We both don't know why we are here.

Except I don't agree that "everything you can see and all you can not is God" because I don't think God is omnipresent... I think God influenced our creation but he isn't creation itself.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 08:50 PM
link   
reply to post by Wang Tang
 


Except I don't agree that "everything you can see and all you can not is God" because I don't think God is omnipresent... I think God influenced our creation but he isn't creation itself.

if he aint omnipresent, it follows he must be limited, then he aint almighty!



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 08:09 AM
link   
Reproduction is complex, so it had to have been programmed by some type of logical plan. This plan may not have been literally written by God, but rather came into being through millions of years of evolution. That plan is the DNA. The DNA is like God's "word" but in a highly compressed physical sense. Atoms contain electrons, electrons contain quarks, and quarks are almost impossible to define because they are contradictory, meaning they are almost unlimited. The fact that matter is essentially unlimited proves that the entire universe is unlimited. So this is basically the idea of God, something that is unlimited. So if you can believe that matter is basically unlimited and continues to go on forever and ever, since particles can never reach 0 mass, you basically have a framework for believing in God. What's interesting about this is that it all depends on perception: external skin could be the limit of matter, or atoms with a microscope, or electrons with an electron microscope, and smaller and smaller sub-particles forever. You'd never be able to actually "see" the God particle, but you'd know that matter goes on forever. It's like looking up at the night sky, there's no end to it, only an end to our perception.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join