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Why Did America Prosper While The Rest Of The World Remains Poor?

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posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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We blew up our trade laws, made them nearly entirely irrelevant and quit enforcing anti trust laws...

THAT IS WHY WE LOST WHAT WE HAD. And it WILL CONTINUE because damn near NO ONE is doing anything to change it.

The free market garbage is BS. We have been doing nothing but deregulating for the last 30 damn years.

This nation was strong because we used to protect the middle class wages...we don't do that anymore.

The unions are nearly gone...and they were...for the most part...the primary defender of keeping good tariffs in place.

Now they are gone...and all of our good paying jobs went with it. Now we are all saddled with insane debt with social programs we used to be able to afford but no longer can because of TRANSNATIONAL CORPORATIONS going to cheap labor.

I am SICK OF THE BS many of you are posting from the CORPORATE MEDIA.

TURN OFF YOUR GD TELEVISION.




posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
We have been doing nothing but deregulating for the last 30 damn years.

While I have not bothered to do this little bit of research, I imagine a quick look at the number of federally-employed bureaucrats between 30 years ago and today would show this statement to be completely and utterly false.

Sure, there have been a handful of politicians passing pork-laden "deregulation" bills (that usually result in increased spending anyway), but there has always been a much stronger, continuous push for more controls, more "oversights", more regulations, more Federal employees, more spending, pretty much since the founding of this country on.


[edit on 11-6-2010 by NewlyAwakened]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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All America's "prosperity" could all come down and it would only take one thing - China or Japan selling of the 2 trillion that you owe them.

But then again you can just keep borrowing from them, and maybe in a few years your debt will be more than your country's annual GDP - it is already at 90% exceeding 12 trillion.

I guess debt is the new prosperity?

Here is interesting Russian take on your economic situation:
en.rian.ru...



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by IcarusDeepSea
America is the promised land. Land of our inheritance.
It will prosper as long as it follows God.
The problems facing us today are the result of America slowly drifting away from God and good morals.


Shouldn't Mexico be more prosperous than the United States? They are 95% Christian while the United States is 78%. There are plenty of second and third world countries with higher percentages of Christians than the United States. In which I would assume most of its population live a moral life.

In addition, America is definitely not the promised land described in the Bible.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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Before you hurt yourselves patting "free market capitalism" on the back, you might want to factor in the effects of looting the built-up wealth of the Native American civilazations. The US is declining because they've run out of easily exploitable resources.

Before the Euros came, there were many high civilizations here: the eastern forests were a managed resource, not at all wild, early explorers frequently commented on how park-like they were. The reasons the Cherokee were kicked out was to take their towns , farms, and orchards over; that's far easier than clearing and building for yourself. Same story throughout the Great Lakes region.

It's pretty easy to reach a high standard of living if you're taking over the fruits of someone else's lgenerational labors and you're profligate about converting resources to quick cash: think buffalo, passenger pigeons, forests, etc., and don't concern yourselves with sustainablity.

It's a pattern repeated in the current financial mess: Wall Streeters brag about how much money they are "making" when in reality they haven't "made" anything, they are taking, not making.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by GeosAlien


The system in the US however is one of selfish greed, without an heart for the less fortunate neighbours in your country. Example is the health care bill (how it was received and condemned)







The poor in this country have it pretty good, I know I have been there. Most "poor" people have a cell phone, car, place to live, cable T.V., food to eat. They might not have much disposable money after they get done buying booze and drugs, but they are well taken care of by the "selfish greedy" people.
Real poor people in the world live in a cardboard shack and feed their kids at the dump. That rarely is the case here.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 




America is the most charitable nation on earth.

The health care bill removes all the competition from the health care market. And everybody in America can get health care right now even without having to pay for it.


Just a few questions/remarks:
1> Per capita the US is not the most charitable nation in the world.
Your system doesn't care for your neighbour in trouble. Only free
charity may help some of the poor buggers.

2> Are you kidding?
30 million+ of your bros and sis had no health care, coz they couldn't
afford it.

The new health care system let's insurance companies to compete for the lowest premiums, and compete for searching for the lowest cost medicine, hospitals etc. To put a halt to BIG pharma that exploited the system to earn hundreds of billions, over the health of your citizens.

We have a system that has been largely followed by Obama and let me tell you a secret: we Dutch are VERY happy with our system for many years. Competitiveness made it work as all insurance companies truly compete.

Talking about prosperity. But don't forget happiness and sheer pleasure !!!

Pick up your travel boots and wander over the globe to see how other people find their prosperity and happiness...






[edit on 11-6-2010 by GeosAlien]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by apacheman
Before you hurt yourselves patting "free market capitalism" on the back, you might want to factor in the effects of looting the built-up wealth of the Native American civilazations. The US is declining because they've run out of easily exploitable resources.


As the article points out, Hong Kong as no natural resources. Yet the employment of free market capitalism has boosted it to American levels of wealth.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by GeosAlien
2> Are you kidding?
30 million+ of your bros and sis had no health care, coz they couldn't
afford it.


Incorrect. 100% of our population had health care if they only sought it. There were segments of the population that could not afford health insurance.

Nobody doubts that there were problems in this model, but to claim that the aversion to government interference in the American health care industry was based on "greed" is myopic and absurd.


The new health care system let's insurance companies to compete for the lowest premiums, and compete for searching for the lowest cost medicine, hospitals etc. To put a halt to BIG pharma that exploited the system to earn hundreds of billions, over the health of your citizens.


Really? Perhaps you haven't seen our new bill. Big Pharma got an exception to maintain their huge prices. I guess Obama didn't follow your model as you had claimed.


Talking about prosperity. But don't forget happiness and sheer pleasure !!!


That's not the topic. People can find happiness and pleasure in all kinds of circumstances. The topic is why America prospered while other countries remained poor.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by DucTape

Originally posted by GeosAlien


The system in the US however is one of selfish greed, without an heart for the less fortunate neighbours in your country. Example is the health care bill (how it was received and condemned)



The poor in this country have it pretty good, I know I have been there. Most "poor" people have a cell phone, car, place to live, cable T.V., food to eat. They might not have much disposable money after they get done buying booze and drugs, but they are well taken care of by the "selfish greedy" people.
Real poor people in the world live in a cardboard shack and feed their kids at the dump. That rarely is the case here.


Thank you for your views. I didn't see all people lining up for some food, loosing all they had house, job, living in tents or less.... You must be a blind person.??!!

And oh ya, there are also those drug, booze bastards...... just ignore them.

Enjoy the prosperity in the USA, with trillions of $ debts....



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


That's not the topic. People can find happiness and pleasure in all kinds of circumstances. The topic is why America prospered while other countries remained poor.


No your topic was : why America Prosper while the REST OF THE WORLD remains poor....

I am sorry but your title gave me the other impression, as I stated before there are many other parts of your rest of the world that are prosperous as well, and still operate under a different system than the USA. That is my point.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by GeosAlien]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by GeosAlien
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


That's not the topic. People can find happiness and pleasure in all kinds of circumstances. The topic is why America prospered while other countries remained poor.


No your topic was : why America Prosper while the REST OF THE WORLD remains poor....


Of all the things I addressed in our exchange you choose to respond to an issue of semantics? Okay then.

So other countries are prosperous and use a different system. Can you name a few please?



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by GeosAlien

Thank you for your views. I didn't see all people lining up for some food, loosing all they had house, job, living in tents or less.... You must be a blind person.??!!

And oh ya, there are also those drug, booze bastards...... just ignore them.

Enjoy the prosperity in the USA, with trillions of $ debts....




Sure there are homeless people in the U.S. But even in the European nanny states there are homeless www.trp.dundee.ac.uk...
You seem to have a vision of people dieing in the streets while the greedy drive by in limos, Its just not the case.
Life is not fair and it never will be, You cant blame people being poor on others being rich.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by GeosAlien
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


So other countries are prosperous and use a different system. Can you name a few please?


If you go back to my first reaction I gave you a list and this list is far from complete...

Sorry, in this case semantics makes a hell of a difference. ""Rest of the world"" means all other, whilst ""other countries"" can be those that are truly problematic. Sorry, but if that is what you meant you did put me on the wrong leg...

[edit on 11-6-2010 by GeosAlien]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by DucTape
 



You seem to have a vision of people dieing in the streets while the greedy drive by in limos, Its just not the case.
Life is not fair and it never will be, You cant blame people being poor on others being rich.


no, no I certainly don't have that impression, and I am blaming nobody. I only wish to state (after the OP initiated it) the USA isn't the only prosperous state around the world, and that your system is one of system that have worked well (until recent).

Now we all have to wait and see how it all can go further, as the signs are that our systems aren't sustainable at all.

The trillions of debts internationally have to be paid back. The prosperity perhaps has been at expense of (y)our children and children's children....

The poor as well as the rich are the "victims" of the system. Mankind isn't a robot, and are made of flesh and blood, with more or less brains, opportunity, character, strength. It is a gift, and if you have got it you are blessed, if not than ...what... you just are the poor bugger....

But above all we are human and we all are brothers and sisters, so why noy having a system that helps to take care of people.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by GeosAlien
But above all we are human and we all are brothers and sisters, so why noy having a system that helps to take care of people.


A socialist system that is designed and controlled by governments to initiate entitlements to it's citizens is altruism by force. A capitalist system which empowers the citizens financially enables a willing, unforced charity. The competition of free markets drives down consumer costs to help enrich everyone.

Obama, unfortunately, has no love of capitalism. In fact, he once referred to it as "the enemy". He has already expanded entitlement spending, debts and deficits to the point that it will shortly outgrow our GPD and force what's left of the free markets to serve as a life support system for government. America will change for the worse and hardly resemble the land of opportunity it once was.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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Main pillar of prosperity is definitely economic freedom, thats without a question. But this freedom is unachievable without a relatively small, but wise and non-corrupt government.

Chinas succes is a fairly good example of an authoritarian government managing a country well, with relatively free market. It has its problems, but I believe this is a way to go for developing nations.
Also, education is the key to a wealthy nation.

Many african states are without government to the point of lawlessness, or have very corrupt governments, and this is the prime cause of their poverty, IMHO.

Small, but authoritarian and wise government + free market = prosperity

Prosperity is hard to achieve because it is created by a harmony between laws and freedom. If one of the variables is not present, there will be no prosperity.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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True capitalism uses the human nature to guide its behavior, this whole system we are talking about is a ECO-SYSTEM just like the environment. What this system has become is not close what true capitalism is, the regulations, tariffs and trade agreements taint the open clear waters of a free system. This does not mean that safety or the environment goes out the window, but it does mean that special treatment, barriers to entry, and over regulation are creating what we are seeing today.

The only true capitalist market anymore is the black market, the underground economy in every country. These black markets are efficient, profitable and employ millions around the world, if not billions. Prices are set by the local enviroment such as policing, enforcement, avalibility as well as geo-policial situations, not by government taxes, tariffs and laws. On the black market there is infinite choice of products, which sets fair market value(eg M16 in south america cost different than one on the battle field in Iraq) along with total choice over buying decisions. "Most" transaction are cash only, cash upon deliver meaning that credit isn't an issue as within the current system nor is the speculation and over extension we see today.

What makes us unique is that we have grown within the system as a people, the most inventive, inovative and fly by your pants types. If in America you were doing it "normally" someone was about to put you out of buisness, even today we are always trying to one up each other. Meanwhile in the rest of the world the people were "content", they lived how their culture live for the last hunderd years, doing things the same way their mom taught them. This was never the American way, we always strive for that higher mountain, that longer bridge, basically constantly improving ourselves by not being afraid to fail. There was never any shame in failing beacuse the society saw that the bennifet was worth almost any cost, you picked yourself up and did it again. There was no ritual to daily life, when this country was born it was wild don't like what your neighbors are doing you moved.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by GeosAlien
But above all we are human and we all are brothers and sisters, so why noy having a system that helps to take care of people.

And once you realize that only through economic freedom is this possible, then we will be in agreement :-).

Forced charity is not charity at all; it is not experienced as such by either the giver, who feels stolen from, or the given, who feels entitled. There are no feelings of generosity or appreciation on either side. Socialism is a sham, perpetrated by the parasitic elite, who also always live much better than the "masses" that they are supposedly "compassionate" for (but this is beside the point).

You talk about unsustainability and debt; that is entirely the result of the enormous parasitic elite that has been sapping the resources from this country for over a century. It will all come crashing down soon, as you astutely observe, but it will not be because of capitalism but in spite of (what's left of) it.


[edit on 11-6-2010 by NewlyAwakened]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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Friedman's idea was based on 1800's schooling. Most of it is crap trying to drive an agenda.

Let's look at the competition.

Europe has had two wars that decimated two generation, destroyed the infrastructure, and wholesale destruction of complete cities in the last 90 years. It's hard to build something without a roof over your head.

In the past 80 years, China had a 14 year war which killed 20 to 30 million, total destruction of the major cites; then had crushing communism in place for another 30 years killing untold millions while driving an agricultural experiment that nearly starved the entire population.

Since 1917, Russia has had problems. A couple of wars, and back breaking economic practices that went nowhere with communistic dictators.

In the mean time, the USA has been in wars, but not touched by war. We had the industrial base to supply the world for arms, then for all needs after WW2. We grew because every other major player was rebuilding and we were the suppliers.

Now it has gotten interesting. Europe has been stable for 65 years. By all accounts, they have a good economy. They have had several social experiments with different hybrids of socialized governments. Their largest problems now deal with social programs they have found they can not afford.

China has flourished. There is no other words. The communist leadership is still in power, but have allowed capitalism to step in. This form of cooperation between communistic government and personal capitalism is worth a serious study. They have modern factories, low cost for environmental protection, and a skilled work force. The fact there is over a billion of the bastards withstanding, it is a huge market.

In 1989-90 Russia was on track and then political greed for money and power stepped in to derail the process. For everything China is, Russia is lacking. Russia just needs one last revolution to kill everyone in government, then they would be in a position to be a world player, again. Until that happens, expect disappointment.

Now for the good ol' USA. Too many free trade agreements, too many union loving agreements, no capital investment for more modern factories and industrial complexes unless forced by legal action to upgrade.

The government is the countries largest employer, the government also produces no tangible goods. The government has a very large payroll, which is spent on imported goods for the most part.

The government has never found a tax it didn't love, environmental laws that make no sense except it requires more bureaucrats, and regulations on how to write more regulations.

Our best days are over. Older people see this, younger ones think it will return as it was. For that to happen we need Europe and Asia to be fairly well destroyed again. While fundamentally, I have no problems with this, even I know it will not happen.



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