German study claims devout Islamic youth more violence-prone

Originally posted by mobiusmale
reply to post by LittleSecret

 

Okay, so you are saying that yes Muslims are committing a great many acts of violence around the world. But, this is political, not religious.

No I did not say they are committing a great many acts of violence around the world (I simply explained the reasoning behind the acts of violence). That is out of touch, just because their acts of violence is headlined on Western news doesn't mean that Muslims are causing more acts of violence than any other group.

I hear you. So...

1) Why is it always Muslims of many, many nations fighting and killing people? That is, why isn't it countries (ie. political entities) fighting against western influence? Instead it is young men who are being taught by Imams in many scattered places who are being taught that they must defend Islam, and to join in the Jihad (that sounds more religious than political to me).

As I said countries are controlled by the American empire, they are revolting as I said, against the empire. They have every right to revolt.

2) Why is it so often Muslims who are being trained to turn against their own countries of birth...they go off to train in foreign Islamic training camps, to come back and kill their own countrymen. Again this sounds like a religious agenda, with political dressing, to me.

Once again, they are revolting against the American empire, many Muslim countries are under that empire, ruled based on puppet regimes. This is all political, you should know that.

3) What does the American influence have to do with mass killings in Russia, China, Africa and many places in Asia?

If by Russia you mean the Chechnyan resistance? Then you still don't get the fact that Russia is also an empire, China is just entering the game.

This is ATS, you should know all of this by now, much relevant information can be found if you use the search bar.

4) How does this explain the widespread mass murders of Sunnis by Shiites - and Shiites by Sunnis?

The civil war which was orchestrated by the American general Stanley A. McChrystal. This tactic was used to crush the resistance. The same tactic is being moved to Afghanistan under the new major offensive by NATO, and guess who controls NATO command? YES, general Stanley A. McChrystal.

I have a thread on it, go read it:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I understand that you are trying to explain that the worldwide killing spree is a response to unhappiness by a downtrodden people (in the Middle East mainly?) who have been under the boot of a major power.

Perhaps this is the motivation for some...or even many. But how can your argument escape the truth that the common denominator in all of these things is a religion...Islam?

As I said previously, Islam proudly allows its followers the practice of self defense.

America's influence has touched the entire world, particularly since World War II. Many countries have benefited from this influence, and some have suffered no doubt. Some countries have rebelled against this influence in various ways over the years. That rebellion of course would be political in nature.

However, within the context of this discussion, the rebellion is coming from an organized religion...based in multiple countries around the world. The rebellion is being taught and encouraged by the leading figures in that religion.

The rebellion started from Palestine, there was no rebellion prior to that. Muslims realized that the empire they live under was/is unjust, unfair, hypocrite, and supports oppression. That realization was the beginning point of the rebellion.

So, again, whether political or religious (or both) in nature your comments would tend to support the finding of the German study.

Nope it wouldn't, the article which describes the German study is as vague as it can be.

It doesn't state the conditions which Muslim youths would choose to use violence.

That is why I called it propaganda, because it gives the reader the impression that Muslim youth would use unjustified violence against others.

Furthermore, it seems to this one humble observer, that if we are to accept your explanations...then we must accept that as a matter of fact Islam has declared war on "the West", and if the West is to prevail in this struggle we had better cast off our Politically Correct cloaks and declare war on Islam - not "terrorism", Islam.

You are ignorant of the fact that Bush already declared war against radical Islam. Terrorism has no meaning, terrorism is rhetorics used by the American empire to justify the murder of millions of people hence more than a million people got killed in Iraq (in direct result of the American occupation). I still don't know how many people died in Afghanistan.

Call if political, or call it religious...the bottom line is Islam around the world is waging war against the West (America, its allies, and just about everybody else).

No not Islam, but Muslims, Muslims are waging war against the American empire who has been treating them as second class world citizens. When over a Million Muslims are killed, no one cries, there isn't even one day of mourning for them, but when 3000 Americans die, it is hell loose.

So you know what I mean when I say that Muslims saw the aggression, saw the hypocrisy...

Anyone who lives under oppression will sooner or later revolt, this is a fact you can't deny, unless they are brainwashed in to thinking that it is alright to live under oppression.

Thank you for clearing up that the war Islam (a religion I thought) declared and is fighting has little to do with religion.

Thank you for taking your time to give a full response.

reply to post by Zelun


I was simply trying to refute this, people taking verses out of context to fit to feed their own ignorance and cause hate against 1/6th of the this earth's population.

You are telling me my response can't be justified?

Originally posted by SevenThunders
I know this will come as a shock to you. But the violent behavior actually depends on what your beliefs are. The religious content matters.

Let's do a little pop quiz to try to figure out which teachings may lead to trouble.

Muhammed:

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.

Jesus:

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

Most of the brainwashed leftists will immediately pick Jesus as the most dangerous religious figure. The logic is clear. Western civilization bad --> Western religion is bad --> Jesus is bad

Non western civilization ---> good no matter what
Muslim civilization ---> not israel --> Good.

The vast sums the soviets spent on creating a hate America fifth column is still working it's magic today.

The yellow part is half of a verse taking from a whole chapter.

Half of a verse from a whole chapter, how is someone suppose to extract the truth from half of a verse?

ops double post..

Since this is already a double might as well use it wisely ^^

Can someone tell me what movie to watch, like a really scary movie, I wanna get scared ^^

[edit on 11-6-2010 by LittleSecret]

reply to post by LittleSecret


Noted. In the future try to recognize that sort of argument as baiting.

What first tripped my warning flag was the article's specific mention of Islam and Christianity as the two religions included in the study. Seems strange not to include other major religions such as Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism, etc...

On the other hand, the article mentions agnosticism, which leads me to believe one of two things:

1: the study does incorporate other religions, including agnostics and atheists, but the person writing this particular article went for the angle that was going to get the most response: Islam vs/ Christianity

2: the study considers agnostics essentially Christian. This would seriously damage the veracity of the study.

Can we get more opinions and reports regarding the CDU and this Christian Pfeiffer character?

reply to post by Zelun


I think I finally understand, therefore learned something new from you, that sir/madam I'm infinitely great full.

Here is one quote by the Prophet Mohammad you will enjoy:

"Do not consider any act of kindness insignificant, even meeting your brother with a cheerful face. "

And that is why I'm infinitely great full.

Yaaawwwn.. More fiction from Caught.In.Act disguised as a "study" by a group in germany..
Same old tired propaganda..

Originally posted by LittleSecret

You want more?

Na that is enough to shatter your miserable image of Islam built behind your head ..

No I've had enough. Islam has proven itself to be the religion of the world. That is the religion of race hatred, mass slaughter, and mysogyny.

Your additional context behind the "kill the infidel" text only makes the case even worse. It essentially says, if you are a non-muslim then you are a subordinated class and must pay a tax. If you don't submit then I will chop your head off, etc. etc.

How can any sane moral person read this screed and not recoil in disgust? Does it bother you in the slightest that you are called to behead the unbeliever if he should oppose your sharia law? Do you think it's normal to view those of Jewish descent as pigs?

The jews DNA barely differ from that of the Arabs you know. Ishmael and Israel have the same ancestor, Abraham. Doesn't it bother you that Muhammed married a 6 year old? Maybe it's OK because he waited until she was 9 to consumate the marriage.

How about when Muhammed turned a rival over for execution and had his followers rape his wife? Do you really think such behavior is of God? Personally I think Muhammeds first impression of the voices he heard was correct, namely that he was demon possessed.

reply to post by jakemil


I don't think the study is talking about Muslim terrorists, but is talking about petty street thugs that happen to be Muslim. In Germany, as well as other parts of Europe, there is a poor Muslim underclass. Like other underclasses throughout the world, members of the poor Muslim underclass in Europe are more likely to be involved in crime.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


No, I'm sorry but you still don't get it. What you believe matters!
If violence is built into your belief system, and violence against the nonbeliever is defined as good, then you will act accordingly.

A recent Barna poll in the US made this quite clear. Apparently people who claimed to be christians in the US, by and large were amoral and had as many failed marriages as the population at large.

It is only when you further differentiate between the fundamentalist christian, someone who actually believes the Bible is the word of God, and the rest of the crowd, that you see social benefits in family, personal satisfaction etc.

Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by LittleSecret

You want more?

Na that is enough to shatter your miserable image of Islam built behind your head ..

No I've had enough. Islam has proven itself to be the religion of the world. That is the religion of race hatred, mass slaughter, and mysogyny.

Your additional context behind the "kill the infidel" text only makes the case even worse. It essentially says, if you are a non-muslim then you are a subordinated class and must pay a tax. If you don't submit then I will chop your head off, etc. etc.

How can any sane moral person read this screed and not recoil in disgust? Does it bother you in the slightest that you are called to behead the unbeliever if he should oppose your sharia law? Do you think it's normal to view those of Jewish descent as pigs?

The jews DNA barely differ from that of the Arabs you know. Ishmael and Israel have the same ancestor, Abraham. Doesn't it bother you that Muhammed married a 6 year old? Maybe it's OK because he waited until she was 9 to consumate the marriage.

How about when Muhammed turned a rival over for execution and had his followers rape his wife? Do you really think such behavior is of God? Personally I think Muhammeds first impression of the voices he heard was correct, namely that he was demon possessed.

Every one of your claims in this post is BULL CRAP!

Produce your proof if you are truthfull.
Not you, and not even if you take 6 trillions as helpers will be able to bring any "proof" that I will not be able to shutter to pieces.
Bring it on.

reply to post by skajkingdom


The lurid history of Muhammad is well known.

prophetofdoom.net...

www.thereligionofpeace.com...
www.bibleprobe.com...

Character of Muhammed
There are so many Islamic sources on the life of Muhammad that reveals his true depravity. It's really sad that this man is so revered.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by SevenThunders]

reply to post by SevenThunders


I like how your list of sources includes 3 propaganda sites that are not sourced and show clear bias and the last source doesn't even HAVE anything on it.

reply to post by SpectreDC


All that matters is the underlying source, which is the holy texts themselves. The depraved life of Muhammed is well documented in the Quran and Hadith et. al.

By the way I think I fixed that last link, thanks for pointing it out.

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

Ask any terrorists why they are doing the things they are doing, they won't say "because GOD told me to do so", they will name couple of American/Israeli oppression against Muslims, and show their anger in regards.

My comment was not directed to you, and my post involved more than just this passage, but individuals like you usually need half of the story to prove a points.

Sorry but you are mute from now.

Your a troll. an islamic troll at that.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

All that matters is the underlying source, which is the holy texts themselves. The depraved life of Muhammed is well documented in the Quran and Hadith et. al.

By the way I think I fixed that last link, thanks for pointing it out.

I do not want propaganda sites here, quote me islamic scripture (e.g. Qur'an), chapter and verse number please, thank you, which prove your claims.

Can we please get back on topic? The last thing this thread needs is more scripture quotation. Christian Pfeiffer, who is in some way responsible for the study in question, has been accused of data-massaging. Let us see some evidence that supports this accusation.

There is no basis for a claim that one religion is more fundamentally violent than another. We're all humans, we all are in a zero-sum resource game. Violence is just a side-effect. Stop with the childish "my religion is better" rhetoric. Religion does not enact violence. People do.

Once again, let us talk seriously and SPECIFICALLY about the state-funded study in Germany regarding the propensity toward violence conducted with respect to young worshipers.

z

reply to post by skajkingdom


Whats the problem. The links I displayed all take their teachings directly from the Koran and the Hadith. Here is a nice narrative from the Hadith demonstrating that Muhammad was anti-semitic and a mass murderer.

The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men.
Ishaq 464

It's funny how nothing has changed in 1300 years.