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Why were there no Jewish suicide bombers in Germany?

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posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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I was trying to put myself in a Palestinians place, and decided that if another country of people killed my family, or even a friend, demolished my house, or kept me in a Ghetto/Gaza, I'd try to take as many of their lives as I could. Even if it meant my own.

And that last part is what got me, Gaza is JUST LIKE a Jewish Ghetto in WWII. All locked in, some people allowed out for work, and barely anything allowed in.

Then I remembered about the trains, the camps, everything horrible that happened.

And I started thinking... Why didn't they fight back?

Why didn't they at least try to fight for their lives?




posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:01 PM
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On the eve of Passover 1943, the Warsaw ghetto uprising was launched—one of the most symbolic battles of WWII and the first popular uprising in a Nazi-occupied city. Through active resistance, Jewish fighters managed to delay the Nazis’ final liquidation of the ghetto for nearly a month.

In addition to opposition inside the ghettos, underground movements were established for the purpose of rescue in Western European countries such as France and Holland, as well as Hungary. In occupied countries including Belarus, the Ukraine, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, France, Yugoslavia, and Greece, tens of thousands of Jews fled to the forests and mountains to join partisan ranks. Jews formed their own units, or—when permitted entry—joined existing non-Jewish corps in order to engage in guerrilla warfare against the Nazis. They attacked small enemy factions and sabotaged their means of communication and transportation. Pursuits and sieges by the German army were quelled by the partisans’ dynamic and evasive guerilla tactics, which undermined the enemy’s confidence on the home front. The partisans’ fight was also a fight for survival. In Eastern Europe, thousands of Jews banded together in family camps or groups that hid in the forests and defended themselves with weapons in the face of enemy persecution.

Jews also rebelled from within the labor, concentration, and extermination camps surrounded by electrified fences and heavily guarded by the SS and their collaborators. In August and October 1943 respectively, prisoners in the Treblinka and Sobibor extermination camps rebelled. Their intent after eradicating the camps’ military force was to escape to the forests. Their missions, however, were only partially successful: While Nazi guards suffered a number of casualties, hundreds of Jews perished and only dozens survived. In October 1944, Jews of the Sonderkommando staged an organized rebellion in the extermination area of the Birkenau camp, killing several SS men and destroying one gas chamber. All the rebels died, however they left behind diaries providing authentic documentation of the atrocities committed at Auschwitz.

www1.yadvashem.org...


i suppose resisting the massive nazi army would in itself be considered a suicide mission



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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Maybe Jews in Nazi Germany did not believe it was right to intentionally kill and maim innocent civilians, unlike Palestinian militant groups.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by At0mZer0
 




And I started thinking... Why didn't they fight back?


They did...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

And my personal Fav Salamo Arouch now that guy was tougher than snip.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by zaiger]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by At0mZer0
 
I think that most of them that did decide to fight back did it in a way that they could learn from their mistakes and as they learned get increasingly great results from their efforts.

Suicide bombings do not allow for that.

It kind of makes suicide missions look pretty stupid, unless there is NO alternative.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


while I do not wish to demonize palestinians, I agree with this logic. Terrorism is a choice. Nelson Mandela, arguably, had moral highground for violence by exhausting channels of diplomacy first.

I am not as well learned when it comes to the long and deep history of this particular conflict but from a purely ethical standpoint, bombing civilian targets might strengthen fear based submission but ultimately (in the long run) destroys any moral legitimacy one could use to gather sympathy.

That said, I also feel that starving a people to fight their government is not ethical though I concede I have no solutions or alternatives to the preventative measures being used currently.

Cheers

[edit on 10-6-2010 by thebulldog]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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So then why do they act surprised when the people of Gaza attack them?

As Gaza is the equivalent of a Jewish Ghetto.

Also, thanks for helping me with evidence for my next thread about the similarities between Nazis and Israelis.

Stars for everyone!



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by thebulldog
 


Nelson Mandela and the people who followed him did not have a burning hatred for White South Africans. Jews in Nazi Germany did not have a burning hatred for the average German. Black people in South Africa did not want to kill off all the Whites. Jews in Germany did not want to kill of all the Gentiles.

On the other hand, groups like Hamas and their followers have a burning hatred for Jews in Israel. They want to destroy Israel. Their propaganda portrays Jews as subhuman demons that feed off the blood of Palestinian children.

Given this Hatred that exists amongst Hamas and its supporters, is it no surprise Hamas resorts to terrorism while leaders like Mandela did not?



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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I dont think being a martyr is as big an honor in Judaism. Judging by the new testament, i would guess the old testament also forbids suicide???



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


Well as stated above, Jews did involve themselves in terrorism.

I'd say the same percentage of the population is violent in both Jews, Muslims, and Christians, but not Buddhists or Hindus, theirs seem to be lower.

Also, with the amount of israeli citizens that came out to sing songs praising the IDF solders who killed the protesters proves that they disregard the first commandment. I'm not saying the others don't, but they seem to forget they are just as guilty in God's eyes.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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They did fight back. The Jewish resistance fighters were some of the toughest motherf&%$@s the world has seen. However,

"Judaism regards suicide as a criminal act. Someone who commits suicide is considered a murderer. It matters not whether he kills someone else or himself. His soul is not his to extinguish."

judaism.about.com...



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by SPACEYstranger
I dont think being a martyr is as big an honor in Judaism. Judging by the new testament, i would guess the old testament also forbids suicide???


I agree.

However the leading cause of death for years in the IDF has been suicide.

I learned that yesterday in a thread like this!

These are gold mines, most people don't want to talk about Jews being violent, it's all about how you ask. =)



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by SPACEYstranger
 


Not to go to far down a rabbit trail, neither testament outright condemns suicide. It's one of those gray issues in the two faiths that have had discussions going on about it for quite some time.

ETA: Of course, both faiths say it's wrong for various reasons, but my point was just that neither testament says something clear like, "Thou shalt not off thyself."

[edit on 6/10/2010 by octotom]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by At0mZer0
 


Well there is some legitimate disagreement over whether the "protesters" on that boat were truly peaceful and did not do anything to escalate the situation. We all saw the footage the IDF released showing the protesters striking the Israeli soldiers with sticks.

Even if you choose to disagree with the official Israeli account of the events on that boat, perhaps some people, including many Israeli citizens chose to believe at least part of the official Israeli account. Those citizens were not celebrating soldiers who killed peace activists, those citizens were celebrating people whom they believed were injured by a mob while enforcing a naval blockade that was necessary for the security of their nation.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by At0mZer0
 



Also, with the amount of israeli citizens that came out to sing songs praising the IDF solders who killed the protesters proves that they disregard the first commandment.


The first commandment (Exodus 20:3):

You shall have no other gods before me.


I don't know if singing a song to/about someone qualifies as breaking that commandment. I'm assuming you sing Happy Birthday, right?



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by SPACEYstranger
 


Not to go to far down a rabbit trail, neither testament outright condemns suicide. It's one of those gray issues in the two faiths that have had discussions going on about it for quite some time.

ETA: Of course, both faiths say it's wrong for various reasons, but my point was just that neither testament says something clear like, "Thou shalt not off thyself."

[edit on 6/10/2010 by octotom]


LOL. I like that line. you should write a bible.

But, very true. I guess both works are completely up for debate. On top of that, im sure the Qu'ran* is equally unclear about being a martyr as the old and new testaments are against it.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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That Defiance movie with Daniel Craig.....and that Saber-Tooth fellow... was pretty sweet.

Regardless of race( Factually we are all only one race) and creed, it was a good show about humans pitted in an epic battle to fight for their lives.

I'm not to down with religions and Judaism offended me when not being "IN" the club. I Also picked up some anguish between the people themselves about stricter parents judging some half mixed breed whatever, they used word for it, was trying to pick up some woman lol.

But seriously Isreal ultimately should be some bad ass Do-Gooders! But they fail anyone not of their ilk. All nations suck, anyones whos good rules, Nazi's sucked, no need to blow yourself up.....

One day and one day soon such an unimaginable unifying point will span across every conscious mind on this planet beyond our solar system through to infinity harmonizing all sentient ...... hmmmm I'll go puff another......

peace.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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I am not as knowledgeable about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as I would like to be, but I believe that most on topic categorical statements are deeply flawed. From the small amount that I can reasonably surmise, Israel has been at times needlessly brutal and has been less than judicious in their use of force where innocents may be involved. Likewise, there undoubtedly are terrorists in the gaza strip who will take any opportunity to attempt to destroy Israel.

So, although I'm not in favor of blanket statements and believe that there is more than enough culpability on both sides to merit shame, I do firmly believe in one absolute; any attempt to create equivocation between the Nazis and Israel is disingenuous at best and a complete canard at worst.

One fact shouldn't be in question. If the Palestinians were to become completely passive and allow the Israelis to control their lives and destiny (which would be reprehensible) there would be peace.

If the Jews in Germany were completely passive during WWII they would have been exterminated.

It's very hard to speak in absolutes about Israel in the middle east. It's easy to speak in absolutes about the Nazi regime in WWII.

Eric



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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I just watched a movie about a Jewish bomber in Denmark. I just can't remember the name of the movie. Based on a true story.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Maybe Jews in Nazi Germany did not believe it was right to intentionally kill and maim innocent civilians, unlike Palestinian militant groups.


yes, they didnt believe then, but now they do right? now it is right to bomb and kill families in Gaza, didnt u read the thread on ATS showing the number of deaths in that conflict?

both sides are wrong in the gaza conflict, but israel, being a more strong country, should decide to try to go for the peace, instead of killing in the name of some God



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