I'm sorry ,my English is poor.

I mean in my post the information of China is checked from the latest Chinese report,and the information of ally and U.S is checked from the latest American and Korean report.

And in UK's reoprt,about over 30,000 American soldiers were captive by Chinese army,and over 10,000 of them were dead in Chinese camp beacuse of lacking drugs and foods. I couldn't find these information(from UK's report)in Chinese or American reports,so I didn't put them in my post.

Originally posted by gastric cancer
I'm sorry ,my English is poor.

I mean in my post the information of China is checked from the latest Chinese report,and the information of ally and U.S is checked from the latest American and Korean report.

Thats ok Im sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing yours. My apologies.
Well thats fair enough and I will follow up on this. Thanks for the feedback

Originally posted by jazzmaster

For the case of language in Taiwan, that is because the island is now filled with Chinese speaking people, they bound to speak the language that is most universal. Take the case of Vietnam for example, the people of Vietnam spoke Chinese for almost one thousand years because the county was occupied by China for a long time. Then back in the 19th century, two Dutch and French priests invented the Vietnamese language they are speaking today. It does not mean that, during the time of occupation, Vietnam was a part of China. Think of it this way, the reason Taiwanese do not have their own language is because CHinese is the most spoken languuage in the world based on population.

You know gastric cancer, you are a very good debater, you know when to say what, i admire that. I guess the South China Sea situation will be resolved by those countries but it will take awhile because China has been all over Asia and it is hard to deny the inhabitance of Chinese on those islands.

Thank yor for reading this.

Actually I just want to point out a correction here. Vietnamese people have always spoken Vietnamese for since they've been known to exist.which is around 2800BC, thats almost 5 milleniums. Vietnamese originated from the mountain areas in northern vietnam / south china. It was the WRITEN language that has been changed over the years. They originally had their own script until they were occupied and intermixed with the Chinese which Vietnamese agree with... since Chinese had lighter skin complex and more templed nose and thicker hair, population looked better LOL. When the chinese occupied for 1000years (up until 800AD I think) the Vietnamese adopted that written script. Then the French monestaries introduced the Roman alphabet and the vietnamese revised it to include special characters to differentiate the pronunciation / meaning of similar words......... But little has changed to the spoken dialect for the past 5000 years.

No Biggie, just wanted to make sure we have the correct facts.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by gastric cancer
So it is the difference between eastern and western philosophy and culture.

I am really against the war.Our government also try for the peace between mainland and Taiwan.But if Taiwan is independent from China,we will have no choice.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

Once you say you have no choice you have limited yourself. I can personally think of choices that could benefit the people of China and the people of Taiwan where you both would win. Such as sell the Island to the Taiwan government for 200 billion dollars, they can make payments over the next 30 years. Until it is paid off they must remain part of China. I think the philosophy of failure means death is very old and should be looked at as the old ways and should not apply to today. When that proverb was first spoken they did not consider a nuclear war.

I have enjoyed our conversation, I need to get some sleep because it is very late here, but I will be back tomorrow.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by J0HNSmith]

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by gastric cancer
So it is the difference between eastern and western philosophy and culture.

I am really against the war.Our government also try for the peace between mainland and Taiwan.But if Taiwan is independent from China,we will have no choice.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by gastric cancer]

Once you say you have no choice you have limited yourself. I can personally think of choices that could benefit the people of China and the people of Taiwan where you both would win. Such as sell the Island to the Taiwan government for 200 billion dollars, they can make payments over the next 30 years. Until it is paid off they must remain part of China. I think the philosophy of failure means death is very old and should be looked at as the old ways and should not apply to today. When that proverb was first spoken they did not consider a nuclear war.

I have enjoyed our conversation, I need to get some sleep because it is very late here, but I will be back tomorrow.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by J0HNSmith]

===================================================
I am from China, my english sucks ( while I am good at chinese ). Here comes my option of Taiwan

Yes, if we trace back to 2000 years ago, there is no evidence to show what Taiwan should belong to china. But so what? The origianl peolple living in American is Indian, but who gover U.S.A now?And who object this fact?

So let's focus on some recent events which can figure out the history of Taiwan.

The last empire of china, Qing dynasty(1616-1911), gover Taiwan since 1683 it eliminate last enemys on this island from the preivous empire of china, Ming dynasty.

In 1894, the Japanese enemy attack Korea && China. China lost this war. As a result, Japanese forced the Qing goverment to sign an unfair treaty. Taiwan, along with some other place in china, have been robbed by Japanese.

After World War 2, Japan lost the war and gave Taiwan back to china in 1945. At this time, Republic of China gover this country.

Soon, the civil war in china break out. after 3 years, Republic of China lost and retreat to TaiWan island and HaiNan island.

The new goverment ( P.R.C ) take by storm HaiNan island soon and was preparing to occupy TaiWan island. But now, the korea war happend. the new goverment had to postpone his plan.

from 1945 to 1971, the goverment at TaiWan delegate china in U.N. , But after that, P.R.C take over it and at the same time, most country in the world establish foreign relations with P.R.C ( and ofcouse unchain the foreign releationship with local goverment of Taiwan )

Till now, most goverment of the world ( including goverment of U.S.A ) admitted " there is only one china in the world, Taiwan is part of China ", this is the base line of the China goverment to establish the foreign releations with other country.

In 1972, president Nixon visit china, and in Jan.1, 1979, the U.S goverment establish foreign relationship with Chian goverment. The U.S goverment admitted " there is only one china in the world, Taiwan is part of China " and promised to cut off the military aid/deal with Taiwan annually. It's a pity that the U.S goverment didn't obey this, there are some reasons , one is the U.S goverment changed onces in 4 years or 8 years, ( this may cause the discontinuity in the U.S goverment policy ) and the goverment can't decide everything in U.S.A, this other ( I think the most importance one ) is that after the USSR disjointed, U.S.A didn't need china to hold down the intimidation from USSR. ( you know, in long term run, from 196x to 197x ), P.R.C is again both USSR and U.S.A in the same time. the USSR goverment even threaten to use Nuclear bomd on China for some times.

what I am said is impersonal, I think we can get them both in Chinese history books and U.S history books.

The U.S goverment is glab to hold the current situation of Taiwan ( not indepent , not taken over by P.R.C ) just because he think it's good for U.S. ( thought it's probably wrong ). It's not related with democracy .

gastric cancer,

At present I admit America did a good job and she is a super power in the world, but I have to say Chinese will do great as well. No time talk more, go back to work.

I want to remind those who stuck with the idea of a War, especially a Nuke war between the two countries, Manpower and Economic Power are always the deciding factor of a war.

I won't worry about a Nuke War between us and Americans, because as long as the CCP controls Beijing, a Nuke war just won't happen. Same apply to America, as long as Marily Manson(I do like his music though) won't become US president than we still have to find a way to live together on this planet.

However, given the economical potentials of China, it won't take China another century to stand on the same level as the US and the western world.

To gastric cancer

I finished reading this thread almost filled with anger. Don't you realize you are dealing with a group of ill-minded "American" who enjoy amusing themselves by stepping their foot on other people's pride? What kind of "respect" are you expecting from these people? ehh?

American might have the most sophisticated killing machine in the world, F-22, 6th generation fighter jet. blarblar... We all know that, but who cares? What kind of soldiers do they have? An army full of narrow-minded arrogant people who join their army just for their college fund, and enjoy f***ing around with their colleagues. Do we really expect the army with "special taste" of abusing the victims of their ill-conducted war by picturing them naked can really fight in the REAL war zone? We have our own weapons to protect ourselves and we have the soldiers who are willing to sacrifice their life to defend their Chinese dignity. Isn't that enough?

We are not going to declare war with American after all, but we are not afraid of it if we have to. We were not afraid of it 50 years ago in Korean war. We are not afraid of it now and we will not be afraid of it in the future. So just stop auguring with those people. You are humiliating yourself.


[edit on 22-6-2004 by butthead88]

I just wonder will our next president change our superpower status. I feel Bush will F*** our economy but Kerry will probably f*** our military. Either way China is catching up but it will always be far behind the US. Two words "aircraft carrier". Lets see China catch up with us in that

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I just wonder will our next president change our superpower status. I feel Bush will F*** our economy but Kerry will probably f*** our military. Either way China is catching up but it will always be far behind the US. Two words "aircraft carrier". Lets see China catch up with us in that

Unlike the U.S., China do not intend to invade other country, military actions will never be the first consideration in order to settle international confilicts in China's policies. Hence, aircrft carrier is not the most essential element in China's defensive system, therefore we don't expect that China will deploy her aircraft carrier very soon.

Originally posted by butthead88
To gastric cancer

I finished reading this thread almost filled with anger. Don't you realize you are dealing with a group of ill-minded "American" who enjoy amusing themselves by stepping their foot on other people's pride? What kind of "respect" are you expecting from these people? ehh?

American might have the most sophisticated killing machine in the world, F-22, 6th generation fighter jet. blarblar... We all know that, but who cares? What kind of soldiers do they have? An army full of narrow-minded arrogant people who join their army just for their college fund, and enjoy f***ing around with their colleagues. Do we really expect the army with "special taste" of abusing the victims of their ill-conducted war by picturing them naked can really fight in the REAL war zone? We have our own weapons to protect ourselves and we have the soldiers who are willing to sacrifice their life to defend their Chinese dignity. Isn't that enough?

We are not going to declare war with American after all, but we are not afraid of it if we have to. We were not afraid of it 50 years ago in Korean war. We are not afraid of it now and we will not be afraid of it in the future. So just stop auguring with those people. You are humiliating yourself.


[edit on 22-6-2004 by butthead88]

Really narrow minded? lets see shall we went to war with Afghanistan and now the new Afghanistan will hold elections, they have better living conditions more girls can go to school, get an education infrastructure is better, their security and military is more modern, they are more economically stable. Well I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there.

Now lets go over in Iraq well the Iraqis don't have to fear getting killed because they are talking bad about someone. The Abu garib prison scandal name me one modern military that has not had incidents where their solider participate in misconduct activities. Iraq has a new government and they will have full power on July 1 over everything except the us military their forces are training, and in a few years their security will improve. More Iraqis are getting better paying jobs than before their food supply and medical hospitals are getting better, but I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there again.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Really narrow minded? lets see shall we went to war with Afghanistan and now the new Afghanistan will hold elections, they have better living conditions more girls can go to school, get an education infrastructure is better, their security and military is more modern, they are more economically stable. Well I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there.

Now lets go over in Iraq well the Iraqis don't have to fear getting killed because they are talking bad about someone. The Abu garib prison scandal name me one modern military that has not had incidents where their solider participate in misconduct activities. Iraq has a new government and they will have full power on July 1 over everything except the us military their forces are training, and in a few years their security will improve. More Iraqis are getting better paying jobs than before their food supply and medical hospitals are getting better, but I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there again.

You are peeling my scar by making me quoting WW2 when Japanese army invaded China. They distributed candies to kids in village. That was the very first time those kids ever tasted candies....

I am challenging you if you dare to go to Iraq alone without any military equipment, with a name tag in front of you, ' I am proud to be an American...' LOL...

Originally posted by butthead88

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Really narrow minded? lets see shall we went to war with Afghanistan and now the new Afghanistan will hold elections, they have better living conditions more girls can go to school, get an education infrastructure is better, their security and military is more modern, they are more economically stable. Well I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there.

Now lets go over in Iraq well the Iraqis don't have to fear getting killed because they are talking bad about someone. The Abu garib prison scandal name me one modern military that has not had incidents where their solider participate in misconduct activities. Iraq has a new government and they will have full power on July 1 over everything except the us military their forces are training, and in a few years their security will improve. More Iraqis are getting better paying jobs than before their food supply and medical hospitals are getting better, but I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there again.

You are peeling my scar by making me quoting WW2 when Japanese army invaded China. They distributed candies to kids in village. That was the very first time those kids ever tasted candies....

I am challenging you if you dare to go to Iraq alone without any military equipment, with a name tag in front of you, ' I am proud to be an American...' LOL...

Iraq well the Iraqis don't have to fear getting killed because they are talking bad about someone--execpt they are talking about Americans, and ask the American troops to leave their country.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by butthead88
To gastric cancer

I finished reading this thread almost filled with anger. Don't you realize you are dealing with a group of ill-minded "American" who enjoy amusing themselves by stepping their foot on other people's pride? What kind of "respect" are you expecting from these people? ehh?

American might have the most sophisticated killing machine in the world, F-22, 6th generation fighter jet. blarblar... We all know that, but who cares? What kind of soldiers do they have? An army full of narrow-minded arrogant people who join their army just for their college fund, and enjoy f***ing around with their colleagues. Do we really expect the army with "special taste" of abusing the victims of their ill-conducted war by picturing them naked can really fight in the REAL war zone? We have our own weapons to protect ourselves and we have the soldiers who are willing to sacrifice their life to defend their Chinese dignity. Isn't that enough?

We are not going to declare war with American after all, but we are not afraid of it if we have to. We were not afraid of it 50 years ago in Korean war. We are not afraid of it now and we will not be afraid of it in the future. So just stop auguring with those people. You are humiliating yourself.


[edit on 22-6-2004 by butthead88]

Really narrow minded? lets see shall we went to war with Afghanistan and now the new Afghanistan will hold elections, they have better living conditions more girls can go to school, get an education infrastructure is better, their security and military is more modern, they are more economically stable. Well I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there.

Now lets go over in Iraq well the Iraqis don't have to fear getting killed because they are talking bad about someone. The Abu garib prison scandal name me one modern military that has not had incidents where their solider participate in misconduct activities. Iraq has a new government and they will have full power on July 1 over everything except the us military their forces are training, and in a few years their security will improve. More Iraqis are getting better paying jobs than before their food supply and medical hospitals are getting better, but I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there again.

I don't see a single puruasive number that can tell people that Iraqis are enjoying a better life now! people running around on the street because they don't have job any more, and don't have an independent government that can make decision fully on behalf of Iraqis. Yes they can vote soon, but for what good? The right to vote won't bring them bread and butter. The only difference I found out is the killing under Sadam is quiet while the Americans can kill as many as they want under the day light. Not even mention the excuse of this war...MDW....where is it?

Anyway, we come from two different culture, I don't think I can handle the American value very well, neither can the Americans accept Chinese value. Don't blame everything on communism. Often time, it is just a culture thing.

US claims herself as a Peace-loving nation, but American pursue peace by guns and powder... Whenever American leader fail to influence others, they always turns to millitary solution.

China has been there for more than 5000 years, over the history, we learned the best way to influence others is to respect each other first.
we believe in harmony.

Some people said that gastric cancer is self-humiliating. I can't agree.
Just think about the fact that there are thousands of Chinese can jump on this board publishing messages with adequate English. And ask yourself how many Americans can even write a simple word in Chinese? not alone a formal article. If I were an American, I would feel humiliated by this fact!

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by butthead88
To gastric cancer

I finished reading this thread almost filled with anger. Don't you realize you are dealing with a group of ill-minded "American" who enjoy amusing themselves by stepping their foot on other people's pride? What kind of "respect" are you expecting from these people? ehh?

American might have the most sophisticated killing machine in the world, F-22, 6th generation fighter jet. blarblar... We all know that, but who cares? What kind of soldiers do they have? An army full of narrow-minded arrogant people who join their army just for their college fund, and enjoy f***ing around with their colleagues. Do we really expect the army with "special taste" of abusing the victims of their ill-conducted war by picturing them naked can really fight in the REAL war zone? We have our own weapons to protect ourselves and we have the soldiers who are willing to sacrifice their life to defend their Chinese dignity. Isn't that enough?

We are not going to declare war with American after all, but we are not afraid of it if we have to. We were not afraid of it 50 years ago in Korean war. We are not afraid of it now and we will not be afraid of it in the future. So just stop auguring with those people. You are humiliating yourself.


[edit on 22-6-2004 by butthead88]

Really narrow minded? lets see shall we went to war with Afghanistan and now the new Afghanistan will hold elections, they have better living conditions more girls can go to school, get an education infrastructure is better, their security and military is more modern, they are more economically stable. Well I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there.

Now lets go over in Iraq well the Iraqis don't have to fear getting killed because they are talking bad about someone. The Abu garib prison scandal name me one modern military that has not had incidents where their solider participate in misconduct activities. Iraq has a new government and they will have full power on July 1 over everything except the us military their forces are training, and in a few years their security will improve. More Iraqis are getting better paying jobs than before their food supply and medical hospitals are getting better, but I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there again.

maybe oneday the U.S. will nuke China, and tell all the Chinese that they no loger suffer over population. LOL........ moreover, do you think any american will care about the living creature in Iraq after the Bush family business exploit all the resources (more precisely, petroleum) of Iraq?

>WestPoit23 said:
[Really narrow minded? lets see shall we went to war with Afghanistan and now the new Afghanistan will hold elections, they have better living conditions more girls can go to school, get an education infrastructure is better, their security and military is more modern, they are more economically stable. Well I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there.
Now lets go over in Iraq well the Iraqis don't have to fear getting killed because they are talking bad about someone. The Abu garib prison scandal name me one modern military that has not had incidents where their solider participate in misconduct activities. Iraq has a new government and they will have full power on July 1 over everything except the us military their forces are training, and in a few years their security will improve. More Iraqis are getting better paying jobs than before their food supply and medical hospitals are getting better, but I guess the narrow minded Americans failed there again. ]
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Well, the point is, did you American military force go wars with Afghanistan and Iraq because you care about their people and want to help their nations to have better future?

I think not. You fight Afghanistan for your safty and Iraq for your economy. Yah, their people might live better than before -- oh, I mean those who still alive, and while bearing pain of losing fellow people and dignity when conquered, will work indirectly for your country's interest. But anyway, as long as you not only put your interest prior to theirs (I dont blame you for that), but also always seek for interest and sovereignty by killing people whenever you feel necessary, you realy think you are heros to them?

any chance we could keep this discussion closer to the topic?

Anyways, the way I see it, China is about 2 generations behind the US. They have no stealth tech on their planes, their computer systems are a gen or 2 behind, and they cannot project their power (as the aircraft carrier comment helped portray). Power projection is just as important as raw power. If you can't get your men and equipment to the area of conflict then great weapons and millions of soldiers don't do you that much good. It is this which really defines the US military might - for all of our amazing weapons, there are many equals or at least rivals. But no country on earth can project the power like the US can. That is how we can dominate a battle field on the otherside of the planet like no other force has ever been able to do.

everybody keep forgetting that CHINESE people DONT have freedom, they live in a communist #ed up regime, and its really not something i would like to have....
u have no right to criticize americans/europeans when your own goverment opresses u