J-10,from China,I am proud of it

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posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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So in other words America is a weak link to you because it fights 'vastly inferior armys'. Exactly what army isnt inferior to Americas?

Have you ever heard of the cold war? America was engaging russia with 'unrestricted warfare'. America did the smart thing and collapsed the russian economy without ever risking an american soldier, without ever having to fire a shot in hostility, thus keeping the world from a nuclear metldown..


didn't prove me anything ... russia was crashed by russia itself, from inside ... I never think it did by america ... if you want me to believe, then try the same way to China ... I know you would say america will and doing that .... but again "Masturbation using mind", ...don't understand, ok ... if you see a pretty girl walking on the street .... then when you back home, you think you are making love with her, but it's not gonna happen because of all is your imagination ... daydream


What? What in the hell are you talking about? You must have something else on the mind/

In a conventional war with the US, china would get its assed handed to it. I am not promoting a war with china. But conventional warfare is where america stands alone.

I feel that China would be a much more effective force if they cut down the PLA. They just have to many ppl in the PLA.


something else must be in your mind, I already said before ...
samething i'm not promoting a war with america, but if there is, america can not win ... don't think so ....if america can win, then 50 years ago, korea wouldn't be separated by south and north, it would be one whole korea and controled by america ... very bad ... the history cann't change .... are you going to show me some figures ... it's all from english, one side ... that fact is if you win, then north korea wouldn't create so much hardache to you today ...

again ... don't talk about war between China and america ... let's talk the war between amreica and north korea, and it may possible ... and let's see what will be happen ... ask bush to invade north korea, then i would respect you a little ...

again again ... don't always pick up weak enemys ... it like a 500 pounds person attact a 5 years old boy ... america didn't give any impressive war on earth ... so there no respect for your troop ... really, indeed ...


Well incase you dont know, Osama is running for his life right now. 9/11 was the day osama signed his own death warrant. He cant be to damn smart.


... you know that better than me .... there isn't only one Osama on this planet ... you already saw it or you will see it ...




posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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The original poster probably wont be reading what your typing. This is an old thread that was dug up.

Chinas economy is growing fast sure. Thanks in large part to all the slave labor


oh ... really ... do u know how much I earn an hour ... it's no doubt double you at least ...


I honestly do hope the best for china. They do have good ppl. Hopefully soon enough they will deal away with there cruel and unjust government.


oh ... we don't need your hope ... because we are already on our way ...


Indeed history doesnt lie. Communism will fall sooner rather then later.



oh ... my god ... when people can stop their imagination ( I don't want use the word I previous used unless if you like that) ... i really know you are very angry with China's growing ... I can understand .... but relax ... we won't hurt u



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 03:34 PM
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Seriously, can this thread be locked now? It's served it purpose, for however brief a time, now it's just an off topic pissing contest.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Seriously, can this thread be locked now? It's served it purpose, for however brief a time, now it's just an off topic pissing contest.


yeah ... pissing contest ... what did you do in this thread .... back to see it ... don't take stone throw to your feet ...



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by sino

Chinas economy is growing fast sure. Thanks in large part to all the slave labor



oh ... really ... do u know how much I earn an hour ... it's no doubt double you at least ...


I earn $15 an hour which isnt bad for a college student. But still, thats nothing special here in america... But in china that would equal about 121 of your yuan (or what ever your inferior currency is called.) per hour. That would be an income of envy in china.

As for the slave labor look at the link below.
video.google.com...


oh ... we don't need your hope ... because we are already on our way ...


Your on your way alright, all the while sitting on the backs of slaves. Dont get your hopes all up though. Because.....

I feel as if im about to tell you santa clause doesnt exist.

This will all come to an end (chinas growth) as soon as america switches to the fairtax. Our current taxation system outsources american jobs abroad.
But, under the fairtax, jobs that were once outsourced to communist china and india and elsewhere will becoming back to america in SCORES. Making america all the more powerful in the future, all the while raping your country of its economic growth.

www.fairtax.org...

Its survival of the fittest, right?



oh ... my god ... when people can stop their imagination ( I don't want use the word I previous used unless if you like that) ... i really know you are very angry with China's growing ... I can understand ....

Sure buddy. Just keep telling yourself that, if nothing more then to help you get a good nights sleep.


but relax ... we won't hurt u

I do not hate the chinese.(even though you ppl drive like monkeys behind the steering wheel) Im deffinatly not afraid of them either. I actually have respect for them. I also feel sorry for them, I mean being supressed by their government and all. Its sad.



[edit on 073131p://0601pm by semperfoo]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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I earn $15 an hour ...


wow .... 15$ .... when we really work, then tell me how much you earn ...


and for your rest of words .... tell you what ... you are actually support my point ... suppose you said all true ... that's why China still keep doing and keep developing ... I doubt where america can go and can be if China didn't have that ... problem never matter ... the matter is if we don't know the problem ... fortunally we know them all, we all know that ... again ... when the problem solved where we can find america ... but I know you hope China never solve that problem ... but the fact is the last 20 years we solve a lot problems .... we are continuing ... good luck for america



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by sino

I earn $15 an hour ...


wow .... 15$ .... when we really work, then tell me how much you earn ...


Whoa, You just kicked your own ass with that statement..
I dont earn 15 dollars a day or in a week unlike some of the more fortunate chinese who do (With the unfortunate ones earning that much money in a two week to four week period.)but I EARN that much in 1 HOUR, 60 minutes. Now, like I said, for a college student that isnt bad. Its not great but it could be worse.

Also... Why in the world would I be jealous of a third world nation? I live in a country who has the LARGEST ECONOMY on the face of the earth. Im quite content with my country, not yours. So forgive me for NOT being jealous...


and for your rest of words .... tell you what ... you are actually support my point ... suppose you said all true ... that's why China still keep doing and keep developing ... I doubt where america can go and can be if China didn't have that ... problem never matter ... the matter is if we don't know the problem ... fortunally we know them all, we all know that ... again ... when the problem solved where we can find america ... but I know you hope China never solve that problem ... but the fact is the last 20 years we solve a lot problems .... we are continuing ... good luck for america


Im having a hard time deciphering your english so im going to keep this short, sweet and to the point.

I honestly hope no ill will towards the chinese ppl. But your government, like it has been proven in the past will democratize or it will fall. The fairtax will hurt the chinese economy. Its a proven fact. It will make americas economy stronger, but at the expense of the chinas economy and many other nations economys. It will suck jobs that had once been outsourced from america back in to the US. Americas economy is expected to grow 10.5 % in the first year under the fairtax. And is expected to double Americas current economic size by 2015.
Now im not one to get into pissing contest but that will pretty much leave you ChinComs in the dust.

Good luck indeed....

[edit on 103131p://4601pm by semperfoo]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 03:54 AM
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ATS is witnessing an influx of chinese on its fora like never before!!

They're trying to overwhelm the web by using the Tibetian invasion method!!

Just cram the place with Han!!
This is hilarious..
Haven't seen an arguementative chinese on ATS in a long time!!
Welcome sino!! welcome..
let the entertainment begin!!




posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by semperfoo
I dont earn 15 dollars a day or in a week unlike some of the more fortunate chinese who do (With the unfortunate ones earning that much money in a two week to four week period.)but I EARN that much in 1 HOUR, 60 minutes. Now, like I said, for a college student that isnt bad. Its not great but it could be worse.


Just pointing out the obvious here... but how much is a loaf of bread in America, and how much is a loaf of bread in China?


Just comparing the wages of a developing country to a developed country in one currency tells nothing without considering the disparity in the costs of living.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Seriously, can this thread be locked now? It's served it purpose, for however brief a time, now it's just an off topic pissing contest.



Crap, I posted without reading the last few pages - agree with Westpoint - this one is probably going to go no-where fast.

A little dig to all those that cry and complain about 'copying' - who was the first to invent the wheel - hasn't everyone copied him since? Be they Lockheed, BAE, MiG or Dassault? There is no point re-inventing the wheel, so why try? I'll lay down money that anyone here that complained about copying doesn't actually work in the aircraft industry - preliminary design is all about learning from other aircraft (or 'copying' as some call it), everyone has done it and will continue to do it.



Anyway, getting BACK ON TOPIC (bit of a novelty in here
)

The J-10 was never designed to be a pure A2A fighter. With China's composites experience in its infancy, tailoring the wing aerofoil sections to react certain ways under loading was impossible. Thus a relatively simple (but probably easier to repair) conventional wing (metallic skin/stringers/spars) was used. The large wing area is a result of the aircraft's true role - A2G load lugging. Large wing = more lift = great MTOW.

While its transient manouvering will be poor (in comparison to the latest and greatest elsewhere), its sustained performance should be a bit better, but the (relative) lack of engine power will hurt. However, I would expect to see various significant upgrades on the engine through its service life as the Chinese learn its strengths and weaknesses and modify accordingly.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 05:35 AM
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Somebody here said that there is little or no use of composites in the J-10 airframe..
Are you sure?Wouldn't the exclusion drastically increase clean take-off weight?
Also there are RCS consideration w/o composite usage.
I'm assuming RAM coating is a given at least?



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Somebody here said that there is little or no use of composites in the J-10 airframe..
Are you sure?

Wouldn't the exclusion drastically increase clean take-off weight?

Also there are RCS consideration w/o composite usage.

I'm assuming RAM coating is a given at least?


- Yes

- Yes

- Yes

- No


I'm sure developments to the airframe will include greater composite use, and RAM - but you don't run before you can walk. The J-10 is the smart thing to do (from the Chinese perspective), make a simple straightforward machine that can be improved upon in tandem with a growing knowledge base.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:16 AM
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wow .... 15$ .... when we really work, then tell me how much you earn ...



Whoa, You just kicked your own ass with that statement..
I dont earn 15 dollars a day or in a week unlike some of the more fortunate chinese who do (With the unfortunate ones earning that much money in a two week to four week period.)but I EARN that much in 1 HOUR, 60 minutes. Now, like I said, for a college student that isnt bad. Its not great but it could be worse.

Also... Why in the world would I be jealous of a third world nation? I live in a country who has the LARGEST ECONOMY on the face of the earth. Im quite content with my country, not yours. So forgive me for NOT being jealous...


at the beginning, I thought you are smart than what I think, and will know what I was really saying ... " when YOU really work, then tell me how much you earn ...
" ... so you are really not something and same to your country. China stood as a leading civilization for thousand years, and we will be again ... 'jealous' never in my dictionary, indeed ....

(added after edit) I don't like tell you this. as an expert, I worked in Asia, Europe and North America, I do not need tell you how much I earn, and I hope you can own a business later ...


Im having a hard time deciphering your english so im going to keep this short, sweet and to the point.


oh ... you got nothing to say ...


I honestly hope no ill will towards the chinese ppl. But your government, like it has been proven in the past will democratize or it will fall. The fairtax will hurt the chinese economy. Its a proven fact. It will make americas economy stronger, but at the expense of the chinas economy and many other nations economys. It will suck jobs that had once been outsourced from america back in to the US. Americas economy is expected to grow 10.5 % in the first year under the fairtax. And is expected to double Americas current economic size by 2015.
Now im not one to get into pissing contest but that will pretty much leave you ChinComs in the dust.

Good luck indeed....


you know what ... that's what I know the real problem america has ... you don't know what the problem you have ... but we do ...

(added after edit) my government are great ... in this world ... there are no too much government like our always say no to america ... and america has nothing to do with it ... what you know about our government is only based on your media ...


you quit





[edit on 12-1-2007 by sino]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
ATS is witnessing an influx of chinese on its fora like never before!!

They're trying to overwhelm the web by using the Tibetian invasion method!!

Just cram the place with Han!!
This is hilarious..
Haven't seen an arguementative chinese on ATS in a long time!!
Welcome sino!! welcome..
let the entertainment begin!!



normally, I don't response pointless post, as like this one ... and again ... like I always say ... let me say it clearly this time ... one of the problem america has is they have too much imagination --- say some words just for them to feel good ...


[edit on 12-1-2007 by sino]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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Hey guys, let it go, you'll only get the thread pulled.





About upgrades for the J-10.


In July 2005, China ordered an additional 100 AL-31FN engines for more J-10 productions. Some reports suggested that these could be the improved model with increased thrust and possibly a fully variable, all-aspect thrust vector control (TVC) nozzle. Lyulka-Saturn demonstrated a TVC-equipped AL-31FN during the 2002 Zhuhai Air Show. The TVC capability would further enhance the aircraft's manoeuvrability.

Shenyang-based AVIC1 Aviation Engine Institute has been developing the indigenous WS-10A turbofan engine, which is also known as ‘Taihang’ in its commercial name. Reportedly based on some AL-31F technologies, the engine is rated at 73.5kN dry and 110kN with afterburning.

The WS-10A development was completed in December 2005 and the engines may be ready for batch production soon. It was reported that the later variants of the J-10 and J-11 fighters will be powered by the WS-10A.


www.sinodefence.com...

That article was dated Nov 2006.



A two-seat J-10B fighter-trainer version first flew in December 2003, and in early 2006 Jane's reported that a more advanced version of the J-10 is planned. Russian sources told Jane's the new J-10 version is called the Super-10, and has a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control, stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar.


From: www.air-attack.com...

Which would make sense, this extract from aeronautics.ru would offer further backup to what the Chinese really have planned. The J-10 is merely a stepping stone, and a quick one at that.


The new Chinese fighter-bomber today represents little threat to the Russian share of the fighter market. Even in China the J-10 is unlikely to compete with the license-produced Su-27 or the imported Su-30MK. However, everything about the current version of the J-10 that we have seen says that it is a transitional model. Already Chengdu is moving toward a two-engine version that would incorporate LO geometry and expanded air-to-ground capability.

Looking at the striking progress of the J-10 (especially in comparison to Russia's own slow-paced development of the next-generation interceptor MFI and the attack aircraft LFS) it should be expected that the future development of the J-10 may be only 3-6 years away. And this will be the aircraft that may eventually encroach on Russia's traditional fighter export market and not just Russia's. This may happen sooner than many Russian and Western analysts believe today. For Russia the J-10 and its derivatives may be what the MiG-15 was for the West half-a-century ago: a rather unpleasant surprise.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by sino
normally, I don't response pointless post, as like this one ... and again ... like I always say ... let me say it clearly this time ... one of the problem america has is they have too much imagination --- say some words just for them to feel good ...



Normally I don't respond either but incase you're confused I'm not American..
far from it..

~continue~



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by kilcoo316
I'm sure developments to the airframe will include greater composite use, and RAM - but you don't run before you can walk. The J-10 is the smart thing to do (from the Chinese perspective), make a simple straightforward machine that can be improved upon in tandem with a growing knowledge base.


I disagree.RAM coating is something that most 4th gen fighters apply irrespective of vintage. Also all new 4th gen fighters are using it too.
Same with composites usage. I doubt RAM coating and composites usage are a major technological feat for the chinese.
If you take your time walking, then you might find yourself in a situation where you're faced with unsurmountable lead.The soviet/russian example with the MFI is moot. The reason the Russians slowed down was because of lack of funding. That's why you saw a big gap between the 1.44 MFI/Su-37 and the next gen fighters.They've got the funding back now and its only a matter of tme before the start churning out the magic again.

Again nobody is going to buy the J-10 unless it does some aggressive publicity: detailed specs,airshow appearances, air exercises etc.
The Russians aren't marketing the Su-27 or the old MiG 29s today; Its the Su30-MK series and the MiG35(SMT)/MiG 29 upgrades,MiG29K.
All these a/c are awesome in terms of manuverability, radar and avionics.
I personally feel China(J-10) cannot compete with the market focus zones of any of these.
The next step is LO and I doubt either Russia or China are going to be marketing much of that for obvious reasons.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 01:01 PM
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Again nobody is going to buy the J-10 unless it does some aggressive publicity: detailed specs,airshow appearances, air exercises etc.


On April 12, 2006 the Pakistani cabinet approved the purchase of at least 36 J-10s under the designation "FC-10".

Form this has been posted before, www.air-attack.com...

And J-10 a kindly 3 generation and half (3.5th) one. I don't have source in english but I do have in Chinese (of course you may think it's from our side, can't convince you)

And We do did air exercises for srue, otherwise we wouldn't release it (it seems Dec 30,2006 something, that's our way to do things) and wouldn't arm it as a huge base ...

And we may see the result between J-10 and F16 from Pakistan later ...

[edit on 12-1-2007 by sino]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by sino
wow .... 15$ .... when we really work, then tell me how much you earn ...



at the beginning, I thought you are smart than what I think, and will know what I was really saying ... " when YOU really work, then tell me how much you earn ...
" ... so you are really not something and same to your country. China stood as a leading civilization for thousand years, and we will be again ... 'jealous' never in my dictionary, indeed ....


Well perhaps if you made yourself more clearer with what you typed then I wouldnt have needed you to clarify what you meant.

You’re under the delusion that my countries men and women don’t work. Care to show me some factual evidence to back that claim? Would you care to explain to me as to why America has a 4.6% unemployment rate? You do know what the word unemployment means, right? America didn’t become a MEGAPOWER by having the American people sit on there ass doing nothing. And it certainly doesn’t maintain that status today by the American people sitting on there ass doing nothing.

Here’s a little about unemployment I suggest you educate yourself with it.
en.wikipedia.org...
[Edit] Opps. You don’t get wikipedia my bad. That’s one of those sites the Chinese government has chosen to block from its citizens. Why is that sino? Care to explain what beef your Government has with wikipedia?



(added after edit) I don't like tell you this. as an expert, I worked in Asia, Europe and North America, I do not need tell you how much I earn, and I hope you can own a business later ...


Ok. An expert in what exactly? Where did you work at in Europe? How about in the Americas? And Asia? What did you do, and what kind of work were you doing at these locations?

Now, you’re not too scared to show your wage over the internet to a college student are you? Is it possible that I make more then you?


oh ... you got nothing to say ...


Don’t flatter yourself. Did I have nothing to say after I said I couldn’t decipher your English? No, no I didn’t! Perhaps you missed it. I suggest you go back and read it again. You managed to take a very small portion of what I actually said and ran with it... Here it is agin, below. I suggest you read the full statement before rushing to judgment.


I honestly hope no ill will towards the Chinese people. But your government, like it has been proven in the past will democratize or it will fall. The fairtax will hurt the chinese economy. Its a proven fact. It will make americas economy stronger, but at the expense of the chinas economy and many other nations economys. It will suck jobs that had once been outsourced from america back in to the US. Americas economy is expected to grow 10.5 % in the first year under the fairtax. And is expected to double Americas current economic size by 2015.
Now im not one to get into pissing contest but that will pretty much leave you ChinComs in the dust.
Good luck indeed....


Ladies and Gentleman. There you have it.



you know what ... that's what I know the real problem america has ... you don't know what the problem you have ... but we do ...


Perhaps you focus on the problems America has a bit to much? All in the while ignoring all the postives America has going for it. Futher proveing you to have a biased view against America. You almost have this gleam to you when talking about americas problems. That is what we here in the states call envy. And your showing all the symptoms. No country is perfect, that goes for America too.

But entertain my mind some more. What is the 'real' problem with America? Tell me since you seem to think you know just what it is....
(hint. It has nothing to do with imagination either
)


(added after edit) my government are great ... in this world ... there are no too much government like our always say no to america ... and america has nothing to do with it ... what you know about our government is only based on your media ...

you quit


Why is your government so great? There are over 700,000,000 impoverished chinese, An estimated 300,000,000 drink unsafe and contaminated water. Many of chinas residents burn stoves and furnaces with unrefined coal and live in toxic pollutants that cause widespread respiratory problems. Diseases such as aids are running rampant throughout the chinese country side. Your government suppresses its people through various methods and techniques. And pollution is out of control.
Yea good job china...



normally, I don't response pointless post, as like this one ... and again ... like I always say ... let me say it clearly this time ... one of the problem america has is they have too much imagination --- say some words just for them to feel good ...


Spoken like a true communist.


America being 'imaginative' is not the problem. So if that was your case for arguement it holds no water... But keep reaching buddy....

Do you normally make a point in your pointless 'posts'? Or is that the whole point? To not have one? Because to you, it is pointless. But, does it not take an imagination to make a point?

Your problem is your confusing reality with imagination. And to you, somehow not having an imagination is as good or better then having one.

An imagination is what everything starts out as. For example a dream is part of an imagination. If you don’t have an imagination then you have no future. And no chance at making that dream come true. You just become a robot with no emotion. Someone who cant think for themselves. Is this what we should come to expect from the chinese?
Alright, my Dr. Phil moment is over. But… If that’s the case for china, then the future of china looks gleam indeed.




[edit on 073131p://2501pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 073131p://4001pm by semperfoo]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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yoyoyoyo

this 3 year-old thread is about J-10, not about some chinese patriots vs some american patriots.

most ppl love their own country, there is no point trying to make ppl to think in a certain way.

to many chinese ppl, americans are just naive and ignorant, and to many americans, chinese are just close minded communists.

well, actually in this case both opinions are not correct nor entirely wrong. this happens because ppl on both side look at things in different ways and react differently due to their socio-cultural difference.

there is no point arguing whos right and whos wrong, since there IS NO right or wrong, only difference in point of view.

[edit on 1/12/2007 by warset]





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