Point being that this is China's first fighter and so the 'unproven' bit stands out more than maybe the F-22/Typhoon/Rafale and maybe the Gripen as well.

Except that is patently isn't the first, in practical terms they developed the A-5 from the J-6, they have developed a whole range of J-7 based derivatives and, as a design from scratch, there is the J-8 and its J-8-II derivative, there have also been many design programmes that never made the hardware stage so the J-10 is the culmination of a very long process going back to the 60's.

Yes, it is unproven, but this is not a stick to beat it with, any more than it is with any of the other types you mention.

I stand corrected. I forgot about the P3 Orion lover: J-8

First one to be marketed internationally then?Or was the FC-1 marketed before that?

Cool glad your happy with the J-10!

Originally posted by roniii259
wow you guys basically ripped off a f-16 big deal. You really cant say you designed or researched it, just took Western Technology combined it with Russian and chinese parts and remade everything in China. The Raptor will have it for a snack, like peanuts

How many F-22s will be made? Price?

Originally posted by feindflug
if i were you, i would be ashamed of china, the j-10 is a pathetic copy of the copied f16 (the israeli lavi) and almost everything is not self made, everything is either a russian or israeli copy, even the avionics are israeli, but anyway this aircraft should have entered service in the 80's, now it is behind in everything usa russia etc.. have, the chinese airforce is pathetic, most of your aircraft cant even fire medium range AA and most of your airforce are mig-21 and mig-19 anyway, when the j-10 be produced in large numbers other nations will already have next generation aircraft such as jsf pak-fa T-50, f22 etc..

and chinese missiles are really russian KH versions


china basically has no navy i bet american coast guard has a better navy.

I'd be ashamed of your country, your promoting a stereotype that more and more "people" are beleiving.

cant even fire medium range AA and most of your airforce are mig-21 and mig-19 anyway

well thats why they are getting the J10! to get rid of that! THATS THE WHOLE POINT!

Also, its NOTHING like the F-16.

Originally posted by feindflug

Originally posted by AD5673

The U.S. has got missle defense and will probably shoot down any Chinese nuclear missle..

ahahahhahahahahahah *cough* wait ahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhaahhahahahaha

US MISSILE DEFENCE IS IN THE GRAVE ALONG WITH REAGAN, i dont call couple of unproven uncomplite interceptrors in couple of years that supposed to shoot down scud copies a missile defence ok?


chinese missile defence is the most strongest after russia.

.

Justify yourself? Oh wait, your banned

the boing 737 was a copy does that mean all american aircraft are cheap copies

No the 737 wasn't a copy. Only the fuse diameter was the same as the 707.

[edit on 31/3/06 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]

How did the J-10 even get associtaed with the F-16?

there's no point quoting ancient stuff on this thread..
The ppl who's said such things are either not on ATS anymore or have 'grown' beyond such comments..
This thread is bahzillion years old

Going back to your earlier question Daedalus, no, the J-10 isn't even the first to be marketed overseas, China has exported the J-6, A-5 and J-7 for certain, I don't know if anybody else has bought the J-8.

Ahh.. but the J 6 (aka MiG 19 Farmer)and the J 7(aka MiG 21 fishbed) have had less than honorable indigenous beginnings. And they were marketed to nations that could not get the corresponding originals from Russia.
The J-10 is the first start from scratch(many still believe otherwise) fighter besides the J-8 and as you said, the J-8 hasn't been marketed outside China.

The J-8 was at the paris airshow in 98.

Daedalus, quite so, but all of that gives them previous experience to apply to the new venture, bad experience can be better than good experience because you've already seen the pitfalls, that was my point, that the J-10 isn't just a first ever attempt that has been magicked into existance, but thetre is something solid behind it.

I'm not saying its all wonderful, I have my own opinions about its limitations but it being in virgin territory is not one of them imho.

why should you guys fuckingly bother who copied whose technology?
If I have a choice, I'd like to see china copying all the advanced military that US currently have.
Why? because ONLY CHINA WILL MAKE GOOD USE OF IT, unlike US that use the weapon to to go around the whole world to kill people and create chaos. History has proved that a strong china is equivalent to a peace world. A weak china means massacre in the whole world, not just Iraq, korea, vietnam, red-indian continent.
shame on american butcher, everyday think about going to heaven, if heaven is full of american butcher like bush and your gangs, I rather not to go heaven. lol

[edit on 5-1-2007 by TheSaint77]

Originally posted by TheSaint77
why should... snip ...heaven. lol

Don't take the bait, I implore you not to. Sometimes ignorance is bliss and in this case necessary, let it die folks.


[edit on 5-1-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Welcome to ATS Gastric Cancer, I understand you are from China, and I have no problem with that(unlike the rest of these ignorant fools who keep bashing on you because of their steryotypical ways) the J-10 is a very fine aircraft, NOW! That does not desclude the fact that, it can't compete with the F/A-22a Raptor or the F-35a,b,c JSF.

Cheers to some of the first well-said words in this thread.

The J-10 is an advanced craft for China, but not for either the United States or Russia. It's not likely to stand up to an F-22A or a Su-47 or any of the latest craft. Not to say it won't put up a fight, but as a general rule I'd say that the J-10 isn't going to stand up to a 5th gen.

One thing I'd really like to bring up is the fact that this is the most recent jet to be developed that is in serious production (I don't believe the F-22 is in quite the speed as the J-10, there were quite a few J-10s in the movie which indicates some sort of heavy-duty production). This is good for China, as it means that they're more or less self-sufficient. They don't have to use totally original technology, but as long as they can get the tech from somewhere and create the aircraft it's a good way to go for China.

Something interesting I found about the J-10. Its inception date was in 1986, and the aim of the program was to counter the then-new 4th-generation fighters of the Soviet Union, the MiG-29 and the Su-27. Much like the way our Advanced Tactical Fighter program was intended initially to be able to counter the Fulcrum and the Flanker.

It sheds some very informative light on the Cold War. The Communists certainly were not united in their cause, and the USSR was very much a threat to more than just the United States. Goes to show that its never clear cut, the very Communists so many of us look down upon today once faced some of the same challenges we did during that incredible time period.

We're so different. Yet we're so not different.

Originally posted by devilwasp
and the usa copied all of germany's rocket projects
does this mean i should be unimpressed with the rocktes of the USA 2 day?

Incorrect, a Nazi scientist was found by an American attack force. That scientist told the Americans that he would work for them. I do not remember his name though. But how can we copy off the German rockets if a German scientist actually developed them for us?

Originally posted by wildcat

Originally posted by devilwasp
and the usa copied all of germany's rocket projects
does this mean i should be unimpressed with the rocktes of the USA 2 day?

Incorrect, a Nazi scientist was found by an American attack force. That scientist told the Americans that he would work for them. I do not remember his name though. But how can we copy off the German rockets if a German scientist actually developed them for us?

HAHAHAHAHAHA, how wrong you are.

Suggest you look up Operation Paperclip, my friend. Then come back and we'll talk.

Originally posted by DaRAGE
Who owns and controls the GPS satellites? .....The USA.

Don't ever said that. Its not true. Dang, I'm hoping to get his attention while I'm far off from this post. Five permnant members of U.N. United States of America, Great Britain, Russia, France and China owns and control GPS.

Originally posted by DaRAGE
Who owns and controls the GPS satellites? .....The USA.

Don't ever said that. Its not true. Dang, I'm hoping to get his attention while I'm far off from this post. Five permnant members of U.N. United States of America, Great Britain, Russia, France and China owns and control GPS.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by wildcat

Originally posted by devilwasp
and the usa copied all of germany's rocket projects
does this mean i should be unimpressed with the rocktes of the USA 2 day?

Incorrect, a Nazi scientist was found by an American attack force. That scientist told the Americans that he would work for them. I do not remember his name though. But how can we copy off the German rockets if a German scientist actually developed them for us?

HAHAHAHAHAHA, how wrong you are.

Suggest you look up Operation Paperclip, my friend. Then come back and we'll talk.

And the English didn't?

And the "English" (we known as British, by the way) didn't do what?

You denied that the US didn't copy rocket tech, but instead gave a rather BS and squiffy account of what happened. There wasn't one scientist, but many and the technolgy acquired is a direct ancestor of alot of the technoolgy that went into NASA and several secret Aircraft projects. For example, the Horten Ho-IX was captured and given to Northrop Grumman to research and develop..

Ooohh, hang on...

Who makes the B2? Hmmm......

As it happens, the Allies, through Operation Paperclip, secured as much advanced German tech as possible while denying it to the Soviets.

The American rockets are a direct descendant off captured German rockets and NASA orignally had many ex-Nazi scientist's working for them as a result of Operation Paperclip. Same with the British rockets until we canned them in the 1950's.