The UFO forum is becoming fail

Originally posted by EsSeeEye
...and what makes this place a place that I don't feel the need to comment in is the straight-up demeaning nature in which skeptics are treated. They're the "bad guys".

It is scapegoat-ism. After almost 60 years, believers find themselves nowhere closer to the truth or the mainstream acceptance of the phenomenon. Frustrated, it is easier to blame skeptics, all but accusing them of standing in the way of the truth.

Originally posted by EsSeeEye
Then, as free_spirit has proven (for at least one believer), attention to detail is entirely absent from this place. So many people, skeptics and believes both, will have their minds made up before they even click a thread title, and the game becomes "How do I negate everything anyone opposed to me said?"

I'm tired of that game.

Here, here. But the problem is not in these forums but in the field as a whole. Far too many are more concerned about being right than pursuing the truth.

This thing is getting way out of hand. The whole point of my post was to discuss the problems some believers and some skeptics have and hopefully reach a state similar to the one we had earlier in which users would attack the other's person argument and not the person itself, while also doing it in a thoughtful manner. I have never stated that I believe aliens are visiting us or not because it's irrelevant to the discussion I was trying to bring up. And I'm still waiting to hear why talking about a problem doesn't help at least in part to resolve it. To me that sounds more like a cliché than a actual argument.


[edit on 11-6-2010 by Radiobuzz]

Originally posted by Radiobuzz
This thing is getting way out of hand. The whole point of my post was to discuss the problems some believers and some skeptics have and hopefully reach a state similar to the one we had earlier in which users would attack the other's person argument and not the person itself, while also doing it in a thoughtful manner. I have never stated that I believe aliens are visiting us or not because it's irrelevant to the discussion I was trying to bring up. And I'm still waiting to hear why talking about a problem doesn't help at least in part to resolve it. To me that sounds more like a cliché than a actual argument.

Radiobuzz.....

Cheer up mate!

I think you are taking an unnecessarily negative view of your thread.

I think the discussion is interesting & useful.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Does that say anything about the existance of ufos?

Originally posted by Radiobuzz
This thing is getting way out of hand. The whole point of my post was to discuss the problems some believers and some skeptics have and hopefully reach a state similar to the one we had earlier in which users would attack the other's person argument and not the person itself, while also doing it in a thoughtful manner. I have never stated that I believe aliens are visiting us or not because it's irrelevant to the discussion I was trying to bring up. And I'm still waiting to hear why talking about a problem doesn't help at least in part to resolve it. To me that sounds more like a cliché than a actual argument.

Damn Straight and amen!

i havn't read all through the thread just the op and last page, i'd thought i post a poem i think is relevant, and in defense of the op author's sentiment:


If you can find flawed logic in the op interpretation
Then please put the op statement in a quotation

If you can find flawed logic in the op's presentation
Then please feel free to attack it’s foundation
With factual truisms and verifiable information

If you cannot dispute or refute the op translation …
Are you sure you’re not an agent of misinformation?


i think some threads here are close to borderline to an insult to ATSers, assuming we can't think for ourselves. sometimes unfortunate add to the mix here on ATS. but i'm still hopeful about the potentials of ATS, and still find relevance in many posts.

just some thoughts,
ET


[edit on 12-6-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

reply to post by megamax42


This thread does:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

When I first joined up a few years ago, I found the UFO forum to be highly interesting. There were always new theories being bandied about, and not the dross , the junk science we are used to at the moment, but well thought out, carefully reasoned thinking, fresh video footage, new examinations of old footage from a modern perspective. Now ALL we get is old ground being covered till its bled its last, and all that remains is dust, and worse , hoaxes missed and presented to us.
It has been at least a year since a photograph, or a video seen on this site made my hair stand on end, and that if nothing else is testament to what I am saying. It used to be a weekly occurance when I first joined!
Some might say that after a while Im getting more used to the excitement, or that maybe Im aware now that more often than not its CGI or some other hoax.... thats not it... What we get here on the UFO boards now is just not compelling, or deep... its just page after page of Debunkers with hard ons for thier own intellect,and people claiming to be aliens, or more badly made CGI idiocy. What happened?
Also I remember when I first joined up, I would go into thread after thread, where one person had seen and uploaded something, and hours later , somone else, having co ordinated with the OP would have established thier proximity to the incident, figured out a possible flightpath, and gone out and ALSO recorded some footage, or at least made an attempt to get some. Now there is so little real world cooperation between members, I often wonder wether those days of instant awareness , the interconnectedness that I felt being part of this site, were ever there at all, if they were just imaginary, figments no more substantial than air.

The UFO forum is becoming fail

---

Hah? Seems to me, when it comes to EBE/UFO stuff -- ATS produces best membership replies that include super articulation from our Members.

Go back to sleep.

Decoy

reply to post by Archirvion

Now that everyone knows that UFo and aliens exist

This is a lie...everyone does not know they exists....and if your going to keep claiming yourself as a scientist but offer no proof of things you say...I dont think you should be allowed on ATS to make such claims.

You might know they exists...and others with personal experiences might know this....but others do not. This does not make them in denial or unintelligent. After reading other posts by you...I have many doubts about you and what you say.

I can see where you're coming from...

Within an hour after the "Australian Spiral" story broke we had enough evidence to safely conclude it was caused by the Falcon 9 rocket, yet that thread still ran to 20+ pages. Some people will keep on beating a dead horse regardless of all the contradictory evidence you place before them.

And then there are threads like "World Cup 2010 Disclosure" and its like, which are completely baseless and nothing more than works of pure fiction. Those kind of threads bother me (btw - if all disclosure threads were banned, it wouldn't be a bad thing).

We're seeing a lot of bugs, birds, and double exposures recently. The problem is that they are sometimes difficult to debunk completely, even if they are obviously not UFOs. And so, the threads continue to grow and we spend countless hours looking at a squashed grasshopper on a windshield, convincing ourselves it's something else...

I suppose the nature of "ufology" is very similar to searching for gold - you must work through a whole load of crap, with infinite patience, before you find something of value.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


It shouldnt come as a suprise though. If everything was so easy with mysteries regarding UFO's and Aliens we would probably know more answers.

Legit evidence and information, imo has been gained, but there's still lots of stuff floating around out there which makes it harder to get to the truth.

Cheers

reply to post by bittersylence


I believe you have been watching the Sun. I wouldn't stare at it too much.

I think a very easy fix is take all of the New Age UFO religion stuff, Contactee stuff, Channeling stuff and put it in a different forum devoted to that.

The UFO and Alien forum should be about cases and reports, not spreading any New Age beliefs or mythology.

The other forum could be called Contactees and Channelers.

Heck if ATS wanted to, just make a New Age forum, and throw all of the New Age stuff in there, Indigo Children, Crystals, Astral stuff, The Secret, Ascended Masters, Spirit Guides, Age of Aquarius, Quantum mysticism, What the Bleep do we know?, Plastic Shamanism, Edgar Cayce, Harmonic Convergence, Pyramid power, Auras, Photon belts, and Walk Ins.

It would be wonderful if all of that was in one forum and out of the Alien and UFO forum or the Paranormal Studies forum. UFOology and Parapsychology should be the dominant topics in those forums.

This is just a sample of how many New Age threads fill the forums and show they need their own forum:

In Aliens and UFOs:
How to contact ET
The year 2010 with "Little Grandmother" wisdom keeper Kiesha Crowther.
A'shayana Deane - Galactic History and Ascension *VIDEO*
The Melchizedek Cloister Emerald Order

None of that is UFOology.

In the Paranormal Studies forum its worse:
For all the indigo children out there...can you take this personality test?
Tell me about your dreams, and being on the astral plane.
An Exercise that will help you Find your Inner "Third Eye"
My research/ theory on History's next 3 years with Timewave Zero method
I have awakened, and so can you.
crystal healing, malachite, and footprints
Atlantean Power Rod / AmWand / Qlink Scalar Technology
Uranus in Aries - Changing Patterns of Consciousness
Quantum Jumping

The Psychology, Philisophy, Metaphysics forum:
A thread for Reiki Practitioners
Understanding Reiki and other life energies
The Law of One - What is Right and What is Wrong?
Chief Golden Light Eagle calls for global Gaia prayer tomorrow
Guided Meditation to OBE State
The New Religion
Shamanic Journeying Questions...
How "the law of attraction" works

They need their own forum.

[edit on 13/6/10 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I wholeheartedly agree Mike! Perhaps you should bring this up on the BB&Q!

IRM

A theory I I subscribe to is that UFOS would not buzz around the Eath with their lights on Duh....?
So 99% of supposed ET UFO sightings at night can be dismissed.
The ones we all have seen photographed in daylight are models or cloud formations weather balloons ect.
The real UFOs are never seen, because they are invisible.
This is probably not what the fantasists and fakers want to hear( no money to be earned in reporting on the invisible) no pretty fake pics to manipulate the prols with.
Most UFO books have shiny covers with gleaming metallic Ufos on them.
The aliens would have the technology to be invisible.
They wouldnt traverse the universe and need landing lights.
The reason the Ufo thread is a fail is because people are hoaxing ad nauseum.
I believe life is on all the planets but it is invisible,its called camaflouge.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

I wholeheartedly agree Mike! Perhaps you should bring this up on the BB&Q!

IRM

I would like to, but I fear it would get a negative response.

I don't think I'm the right person to suggest it either. It needs to be someone popular on the boards. I am not that person.

reply to post by TrueBrit


yes i agree some body said akroid had some ohare footage and but laid down on it but i saw some old shag habor footage and it showed 4 vertical lts equally spaced as it went into the sea thats what the witnesses say they saw maybe it happened that way or maybe it didnt but fast fwd to 08 stephenville cops say they saw 4 horizontal lights turn up on its side and realign in a vertical config 200 people said they saw the same thing radar has the object going from 2000mph down to 60 mph and then to just a hover and the ft worth jrb hasn't felt the need to send a squadron of 12 f16's into that area in the 2 and half yrs since then let's just keep pretending not!

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

I wholeheartedly agree Mike! Perhaps you should bring this up on the BB&Q!

IRM

I would like to, but I fear it would get a negative response.

I don't think I'm the right person to suggest it either. It needs to be someone popular on the boards. I am not that person.

You may find there will be opposition to this idea. The reason is that UFO research touches on many areas - metaphysics, the Occult and religion to name a few. It would be nice if it was all about physical evidence and case studies. IMO it is not.

One of the greatest tragedy of the scholarly world was the decimination of knowledge into segments. For example a greek scholar of a few hundred years ago would be studying chemistry (alchemy) , physics, philosophy, biology, astronomy, astrology , mathematics (calculus and whatever it was called then) hand in hand. Everything was under the same roof. Nowadays , we are expected to specialise in one only. Therefore a biologist would understand only organic development and he/she would have no way of fitting it into the wider picture.

It is the same thing if Ufology was to be sterilised and became devoid of all the more esoteric elements. I believe the elusivity of UFOs points to their subtle nature (hence the need to keep metaphysics and esoteric knowledge in the equation).



[edit on 13-6-2010 by crowdedskies]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by crowdedskies]

reply to post by crowdedskies


The thing is UFOology is supposed to be the study of reports and evidence of UFOs.

Metaphysics on the other hand is philosophy. I don't have an issue with philosophical discussion of UFOs if it follows normal philosophical rules.
Meaning it relies on reason or a rational argument.

The New Age material isn't philosophy or science, its mysticism.

Claims are made without reason, people take the teachings at face value, and then spread it. In other words it relies on faith.

That really has no place in UFOology or Parapsychology.

If New Age ideas are presented as hypotheses and debated rationally thats fine, but presenting them as absolute truths or facts without question and expecting others to believe them is proselytizing.

Proselytism has no place in UFOology.



[edit on 13/6/10 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

The thing is UFOology is supposed to be the study of reports and evidence of UFOs.

Metaphysics on the other hand is philosophy. I don't have an issue with philosophical discussion of UFOs if it follows normal philosophical rules.
Meaning it relies on reason or a rational argument.

The New Age material isn't philosophy or science, its mysticism.

Claims are made without reason, people take the teachings at face value, and then spread it. In other words it relies on faith.

That really has no place in UFOology or Parapsychology.

If New Age ideas are presented as hypotheses and debated rationally thats fine, but presenting them as absolute truths or facts without question and expecting others to believe them is proselytizing.

Proselytism has no place in UFOology.



[edit on 13/6/10 by MikeboydUS]

At least you are taking a balanced view and accepting that someone may want to discuss the philosophical aspects. What you seem to be saying is that , in such a case, they should discuss that part of it is a more appropriate forum (philosophy and metaphysics).

That may cause a problem from time to time however. I was recently researching a phenomenon that I had noticed. There appeared to be a correlation between a person's UFOs sightings and that person's frame of mind. Nothing new here but I was only interested in sightings captured on films and the photographers frame of mind. My goal was to establish whether sightings were trigerred by a connection on a mental/psychic level.

Not wishing to derail the thread, my point is where do I post my research? If I post in the Philosophy forum I will miss all the UFO enthusiasts. If I post in the UFOs forum , I will steer the topic away from what people want to read.

Perhaps, as you say, UFO forum and Ufology should only be the study of evidence and reports of UFOs . That would resolve it. Those who want to look at it deeper can do so in the forum that is more relevant to them.
It would be necessary for the Mods to put a headline asking the posters to restrict the discussion to reports and evidence.



[edit on 13-6-2010 by crowdedskies]