The UFO forum is becoming fail

Guys...girls...people...please...for a thread that started out with good intentions this thing is spinning completely out of control.

Am I the only one who feels like this "ATS UFO FAIL FORUM" thing is starting to become a parody of the very thing that it was designed against?

I dont want to be negative but this is just the nature of the internet and part of how an online community evolves over time. The more time we spend bitching about this the more it stays the same. The lame blood running through this thread will run itself out in time.

In the meantime continuing to say the same things over and over again, the stating and restating of the original message in "your own special way" and the bickering about proper English just feels kind of...EMBARRASSING.

Im sorry, that's just my opinion, even if I get flamed or spat on by the masses for this, at least it's HONEST.

Someone mentioned "be the change" idea...Im going to shut up now and go try that out.

With all due respect, why are people trying to prove that there are extraterrestial's that have and are visiting Earth? Why do some discount the latter? It is so logical. Look at the night sky dear reader. Billions of stars with billions of planets in orbit round them. Now, see how silly it realy is....this continual debate. How can you not know that we are not alone.

Thanks OP
One of the main reasons I have kept out of ATS is the repetitive threads and idiotic comments in threads which you can read and reread in any other thread banging on, on roughly the same subject.

I can imagine the MODS have a lot to do and can't be everywhere at the same time, but maybe, just maybe, keep their eyes peeled open on this.

I'm sorry but ATS was founded on just this, in the OP statements,.. Don't let the register date fool you. I been here since I was 16. That's 8-9 years ago?. I'm saddened at what ATS has come too. 1000's of post's without sources or credits. Half of ATS postings come from Youtube... This is NOT WHY I SIGNED UP!!!


WHY ISN"T ATS DOING ANYTHING!?!??!

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Second Line?

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SPAM FOR FLAG AND INFRACTION. TBN! INTERNET LINGO ROCKS!

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reply to post by Kandinsky


In a perfect world your solutions would be enough, however in the real world they are limited by our very own capabilities. Let's take for example tauristercus' threads regarding recent spirals. I couldn't possibly write a thing like that because I lack the knowledge. I love to research and such but I'm not able to make many of the great experimentations some users are capable here. But this is also a way to help: my limitations prevent me to open threads which I know will add nothing to the forum except for noise. Evidently if the rest of the users would apply this concept, many of us wouldn't be complaining at all. Of course, if I feel I can add something to the thread then I obviously will try to help.

For the rest, there's really nothing new. I often report offensive posts or spam, and since I've came here I offered a couple of ideas to improve the forum. About reporting, it's not always useful because many times even though a users is being offensive he's not technically breaking any rule so there's nothing to do (again I'm thinking about a user accusing another one for killing animals; the user was banned many months later but it was due to something else).

Originally posted by pajoly
It also does not help lift the quality of discourse when you follow faddish vernacular by using the word "fail" as a noun. When you talk like a teenager, why are you surprised when the site attracts juvenile posters?

Call me snobby and you may think it pompous, but words mean things and they convey messages beyond their semantic content. You want well-reasoned threads and intelligent debate? It might help to write like an educated grown-up.

So, just using the correct words, punctuation and grammar automatically makes one intelligent and well-reasoned? That's good to know.

Here's a tip: addressing the "vernacular" of a post rather than taking on the topic makes you look weak and unable to rebut the argument. Or is it too difficult for you to understand his meaning if he doesn't post in a snobby and pompous manner?

Now, how about addressing the merits of his argument?

Originally posted by Radiobuzz

There are two main problems I believe. The first one comes with UFO believers. There
are two kinds of them: the first kind is the one that keeps on making threads about
videos or pictures who already were discussed at length and it was proved not to be a
UFO. The second kind is the one that posts videos and pictures which are obviously
fake or at least are misidentified objects. Within that group there are a couple of people
that would actually create a hoax and post it here just to see our reactions.

The other problem with some UFO believers is that they're not really open to hear
different opinions.

Well, you are certainly or should I say conveniently ignoring the third kind Mr. skeptic.
How about the REAL UFO CASES. Of course you don't want to mention or comment the
thousands proven legitimate UFO cases in many years, of course not because that
would destroy your whole scheme, you are a perfect example of hypocrisy and I ask
you, what are you doing here in this ATS forum “wasting your valuable time” in this
nonsense naive UFO discussions among those “ UFO believers” your absurd despotism
tries to ridiculize, and yet you are here to disrispect those who believe in the UFO
Phenomenon. You are a perfect example of hypocrisy.

And you dare to declare the “UFO believers” have a problem here in this same ATS
forum? What about the skpetics and debunkers? Don't they have a problem too by
not accepting other opinions by ignoring evidences, testimonials etc. of a legitimate
phenomena that has ben proven real for decades? Just because those skeptics are
your immaculate idols perfect owners of the universal knowledge you come here to this
same forum to expose your fancy ideas of the problems UFO believers suffer? You are
a perfect example of cynicism, offending those who believe the UFO Phenomenon is
Real including me, offending this same ATS forum by calling with sarcasm many members as poor “UFO Believers”, that is just pathetic.

It's clear Mr. Radiobuzz skeptic you have an extremely BIG BIG problem, you are
frustrated with this forum, dissapointed perhaps but that is YOUR problem not ours
so don't try to be another immaculate example of perfection who knows all about
everything, you are not and if there are many UFO Believers here that is not your
bussines so don't export your frustrations by offending people that choose to believe
in the phenomenon, your sarcastic hypocrisy has no place here because we are discussing a real phenomena, if there are real cases as well as hoaxes fine we are discussing both but that is no reason to offend those that your sarcasm call “UFO Believers” .

Do the members a favor and keep your cynicism for yourself sir.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by free_spirit]

Originally posted by Klaatumagnum
With all due respect, why are people trying to prove that there are extraterrestial's that have and are visiting Earth? Why do some discount the latter? It is so logical. Look at the night sky dear reader. Billions of stars with billions of planets in orbit round them. Now, see how silly it realy is....this continual debate. How can you not know that we are not alone.

Wait, what?

Yes, it's logical to deduce that with billions of planets that a few million of them will have life. However, there is a massive leap from that to "They're visiting us." When you take the distances involved, you can't say it's "logical" that aliens are visiting Earth unless you're prepared to discard the special theory of relativity. And if you are going to discard STR, then you need to propose an alternative theory.

When you propose something, you should have proof. We don't abandon that just because extraterrestrials are involved. That's why "people trying to prove that there are extraterrestial's that have and are visiting Earth." People already take WAY too much on faith without any actual evidence. And if aliens are routinely visiting Earth as you claim they are, it should not be difficult to provide such evidence.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Maybe the reason for the lull, is lack of interesting sightings/cases. It seems like the most interesting cases happened decades ago but try to find more recent cases that are as interesting and it's harder. One contributing factor to this might be the enhancement of radar software and filters which might affect cases with radar confirmation. While it's still possible to fool radar with false signals it's a lot harder than it used to be.

I am not a UFO fanatic but I do find it an interesting topic. I had the pleasure of having multiple UFO sightings when I was much younger. I was lucky enough to have not only both of my parents present with me at several of the sightings but over half the town reported the sightings so they could not be ignored. Unfortunately we lived near an air base and they finally had to come clean that they had been testing a new secret aircraft that was capable of vertical flight.

You would think that would have squelched any interest I would have in UFO's but interestingly enough it only peaked my interest. It has also made me a dyed in the wool believer that most of the UFO sightings are just earthly objects that we have failed to identify properly or test aircraft that either the military or other manufactures are clandestinely developing.

Yet I cannot look at the night sky and behold all that is visible with just my naked eye and not believe that there has to be more. With the pictures that we are now capable of capturing with telescopes and satellites, we have to be either amazingly ignorant or amazingly arrogant to believe that within just the vastness of our universe, that we are the only living, intelligent, sentient life forms in all of the galaxies.

I don’t own a camcorder and though I have looked at them I cannot justify the cost of a unit that would be capable of capturing a picture that would be undeniably otherworldly. Even if I could afford the camera I could not afford the time it would take for me to sit every night waiting and hoping for that money shot. After all I would have to work to pay for the camera.

I think that there has many legitimate sightings but most of those occur when least expected and when the observer is without a camera so you end up with grainy iffy pictures from cell phones or inexpensive cameras meant for family gatherings.

We all know on ATS if you don’t have a National Geographic quality photo then it either did not happen, it is CGI or it is a bug on the lens. I hope that if someone is lucky enough to get that money shot that they will forget about the money and post it online, some place where it will be safe, because I don’t trust the main stream media or the authorities to share the information with the masses.

Originally posted by free_spirit
Do the members a favor and keep your cynicism for yourself sir.

Nice. So if you don't agree with the believers, you shouldn't contribute? That is utterly ridiculous.

Apparently you've forgotten, or perhaps choose to ignore, the entire point of ATS.

AboveTopSecret.com is the Internet's largest and most popular discussion board community dedicated to the intelligent exchange of ideas and debate on a wide range of "alternative topics" such as conspiracies, UFO's, paranormal, secret societies, political scandals, new world order, terrorism, and dozens of related topics with an impressive demographic mix of members.
...
The simple yet effective motto of our membership is "deny ignorance", which signifies an effort to apply the principals of critical thought and peer review to the provocative topics covered within.

If you want a homogeneous place where like-minded people can agree with each other, I suggest you start your own forum. There are plenty of free hosts online.

reply to post by Radiobuzz


Again check this out:

terraform.no.sapo.pt...

This is the news, it is real and [ATS] had the facts that sent some one who found it to jail. So here is where the work starts. Your job is to say this UFO report is close to that ship or can we track it using nasa.gov photos at about the same time. It is all possible now but only if you do the work.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by sjreese]

Originally posted by Klaatumagnum
It is so logical. Look at the night sky dear reader. Billions of stars with billions of planets in orbit round them. Now, see how silly it realy is....this continual debate. How can you not know that we are not alone.

Here's some logic for you. You have a paper bag with an apple in it. You don't know how it got there. Don't have a clue. Now imagine increasing the size of the paper bag. Bigger. Bigger. At what point does another automatically apple appear in the bag? When the bag is 100 times the size of the original? A billion times?

If we don't know how life came to be on Earth, it's just not logical to assume that life exists elsewhere just because there may be more Earths out there. It might be such a freaky fluke that we're the only living world in the universe. And that's our lonely and pointless existence.

As the evidence stands now.

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by free_spirit
Do the members a favor and keep your cynicism for yourself sir.

Nice. So if you don't agree with the believers, you shouldn't contribute? That is utterly ridiculous.

Apparently you've forgotten, or perhaps choose to ignore, the entire point of ATS.

AboveTopSecret.com is the Internet's largest and most popular discussion board community dedicated to the intelligent exchange of ideas and debate on a wide range of "alternative topics" such as conspiracies, UFO's, paranormal, secret societies, political scandals, new world order, terrorism, and dozens of related topics with an impressive demographic mix of members.
...
The simple yet effective motto of our membership is "deny ignorance", which signifies an effort to apply the principals of critical thought and peer review to the provocative topics covered within.

If you want a homogeneous place where like-minded people can agree with each other, I suggest you start your own forum. There are plenty of free hosts online.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just don;t actually understand what the guy was talking about or getting at rather than just being blindly dumb for the hoot of it.

The fact is, you and several other regular posters are, as described elsewhere every bit the same in mindset, as the believers. That is, you know the answer before the question has even been posed.

You already know that it is impossible for us to be visited by any other form of intelligence so therefore your whole reason for being here is simply to proselytise that fundamentalist belief exactly the same as those who insist every strange light is an alien. You,in exactly the same way as David Icke, see your role in society to enlighten the intolerant masses to that which you hold to be perfectly obvious, irrespective of what evidence might contradict it.

There are many of us, who believe that. on the whole, there is some definite suggestion a non human intelligence is at work in our world.

Lets take the triangles as a classic example of the sort of wolly minded thinknig that goes with claiming they are human


For 50 years+ no, humans have had the technology to create inertia damping systems and craft that cannot be attacked or challenged, with any success by normal aircraft or weapon systems.

The chances are, if anyone owns that technology it's the Americans.

Now let me get this right. The Americans lost the war in Vietnam when they could have walked it with a minimal cost of life?

In a capitalist world no-one has ever thought, OK , time to make billions from the patents. Really? well excuse me for casting a slightly jaundiced eye over this theory and then dismissing it out of hand. This is a capitalist world driven by the diktats of the money market. if that technology had existed for 50 years there is no way in this world it wouldn't have been adapted for every last technology it could be.

Inertia damping, for instance, would mean, virtual immunity to earthquake damage for hugely expensive buildings the world over. That people don;t seem to realise that is the world we live in suggest it is they, if anyone, who don't have much of a handle on the "real world".

I posted a thread on here a while ago, that showed conclusive proof of the following. That, in the 1960s, when scientists discovered Pulsars and originally thought they were messages from an Alien civilisation. They openly discussed and proposed that they should. Burn the evidence and never speak of it again. That shows that when you see these talking heads saying "They would be shouting it from the roof tops", that they are not the majority and actually, usually wouldn't even have any say in the matter either.

Now, that little tit bit of information is something we have sought to quantify for donkey's years. We now know that, had scientists discovered ET, in the 1960s the chances are almost 100%, they would not haver told anyone and destroyed the evidence.

The people who waste their time and others on here, are the *absolutists* from both camps. The truth is, those who can only exist in a world of absolutes and closure on every topic are wasting their time in the field of Ufology and in the end, science itself. Ufology , like science just throws up more questions the more you learn. If you can;t deal with that , you really should do yourself a favour and forget it.

Ufology. like science, has its' luminaries, but they are liable to be lost in the mists if the time as new models take over from the old established ones and the *truth*, changes with new evidence and discoveries, The personal ego, really isn't served by Ufology, it is, mostly a thankless task and it's not about garnering huge personal kudos.

Carl Sagan and James Randi both share(d) the same Public relations company representing then. Ask yourself why, someone who is supposed to be so *serious* needs a PR company to present the right spin on their behalf? Or just maybe, they are more interested in personal glory than scientific truth? The moment you step into that sort of world that's exactly the sort of accusations you are laying yourself open to.

Personally, at times, i feel the whole little clique of skeptics and believers are effectively killing the whole study of UFOs by their self serving gravy train that only discusses certain cases within certain parameters. it's become little more than a long running *game show*. to the detriment of the actual study of the subject.

That game show is played out, on here, just with lesser known figures and it does indeed, become a tad tiresome.

Originally posted by FireMoon

The fact is, you and several other regular posters are, as described elsewhere every bit the same in mindset, as the believers. That is, you know the answer before the question has even been posed.

You already know that it is impossible for us to be visited by any other form of intelligence so therefore your whole reason for being here is simply to proselytise that fundamentalist belief exactly the same as those who insist every strange light is an alien.

Well said.

And seeing as we have been treated to a rather selective quoting from the ATS mission statements I feel I should point out that the closed minded position you described - [members claiming] "that it is impossible for us to be visited by any other form of intelligence" etc. - is completely contrary to this forums purpose as described in the Aliens and UFOs Forum mission statement and as discussed at length here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...




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Originally posted by SneakAPeek
I'm sorry but ATS was founded on just this, in the OP statements,.. Don't let the register date fool you. I been here since I was 16. That's 8-9 years ago?. I'm saddened at what ATS has come too. 1000's of post's without sources or credits. Half of ATS postings come from Youtube... This is NOT WHY I SIGNED UP!!!

WHY ISN"T ATS DOING ANYTHING!?!??!

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Second Line?

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SPAM FOR FLAG AND INFRACTION. TBN! INTERNET LINGO ROCKS!

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SneakaPeek.....

For you.....

reply to post by Radiobuzz


---

Hi all,

We need people to present their stuff here (non-judgemental). As we can learn something more than we already Don't.

Decoy

reply to post by free_spirit


Did you read the entire OP? Because you forgot about this part:

Originally posted by Radiobuzz

But there are other problems that comes with UFO skeptics. ATS has created a sort of "skepticism school" which is really cool because it keeps dumb cases away, but some people are putting on the debunker cap when they have little knowledge about many subjects. There are those still who believe it's a sign of image altering when an object is surrounded with a square box of pixels when in fact that's how JPG compression works. There are other debunkers who focus in debunking a small part of the story posted and when they do they feel the whole thing was exposed when all they've done was marked a simple mistake. Example: if I find and old photograph my father took on 1975 which I believe is showing a picture and I post it here, some debunkers may look at the it and come to the conclusion that it couldn't have been taking in 1975. This however doesn't debunk the UFO itself, simply a part of my story which will not make me a liar or a hoaxer.

Not to mention those debunkers who simply post their truth without anything to support it and become rude to the OP. I remember a particular thread in which a user accused the OP of killing some animals in order to create a hoax when actually all he had done was taking a picture of them, but there was nothing that would indicate that they were killed by the OP.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by cripmeister]

Originally posted by free_spirit

Originally posted by Radiobuzz
The other problem with some UFO believers is that they're not really open to hear different opinions.

Well, you are certainly or should I say conveniently ignoring the third kind Mr. skeptic...

You would be a perfect example of what Radiobuzz describes above. You see him criticize the attitudes and behaviors of some believers, and instead of making an attempt at listening to his argument, you make assumptions based not on anything Radiobuzz is actually saying but your own prejudices.

Originally posted by free_spirit
How about the REAL UFO CASES. Of course you don't want to mention or comment the thousands proven legitimate UFO cases in many years...

Radiobuzz doesn't mention them because he is not dismissing the phenomenon as a whole put discussing problems in the field. It should be obvious to any objective, rational reading of Radiobuzz's argument those problems are not legitimate cases.

Originally posted by free_spirit
nonsense naive UFO discussions among those “ UFO believers” your absurd despotism tries to ridiculize, and yet you are here to disrispect those who believe in the UFO Phenomenon.

Despotism? Someone is working the hyperbole hard.

He did not disrespect everyone who believes in the phenomenon, but pointed out how certain attitudes among certain believers damages the field.

Originally posted by free_spirit
And you dare to declare the “UFO believers” have a problem here in this same ATS forum? What about the skpetics and debunkers?

If you had bothered reading further, instead of throwing an ignorant fit because someone dared criticize certain aspects of the UFO field, you would see he discussed problems he sees with skeptics. The fact you blatantly missed this demonstrates you are exactly who Radiobuzz is describing when he said certain believers cannot handle a difference of opinion.

Originally posted by free_spirit
It's clear Mr. Radiobuzz skeptic...

Since when is "skeptic" a pejorative?


[edit on 11-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

*tiptoes in*

First of all let me disclose that I have only read the OP and so my apologies if this has been covered already.

A couple of issues outside of the silliness of the skeptic/believer false dichotomy ...

- First ... over the last year we have lost several extremely knowledgeable ufologists ... some have moved on, others sadly left this dimension, and others couldn't seem to keep with ATS guidelines and that was that. I mention this as a simple observation, I beg you not to dwell on specific members and their circumstances as it is not only against the T&C, it is just wrong. Suffice it to say that their contributions to the UFO field are missed. Others have certainly stepped up, and others undoubtably will, still ...

- Second and most important ... on the internet/ATS we communicate through words/pictures/videos, all of them part of the visual medium. And therein lies the problem, given the image manipulating technology that is readily available we simply cannot trust our eyes any more. This is a massive issue, for like I said, we see/read each others posts. So the principle means available to us through which we exchange information cannot be trusted.

I simply don't know how we can get around that ... no one believes anyone anyway without pictures/video, and we cannot believe our eyes when we see said pictures/video.

Anyhoot ... just a couple of random thoughts from a dude who knows next to nothing about ufology.

[edit on 11 Jun 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRexSince when is "skeptic" a pejorative?

It's been a pejorative the whole time I've been involved in these forums. It's a lot easier to demean, disrespect, and put down than it is to discuss.

There are some very blunt skeptics on these boards, but the mountains to molehills of plain disrespect come from one side of the aisle. Blind-belief is something that should be expected from a conspiracy site, but what isn't acceptable, and what makes this place a place that I don't feel the need to comment in is the straight-up demeaning nature in which skeptics are treated. They're the "bad guys".

There has to be a villain somewhere. It makes it much easier to ignore the actual discussion when there's someone out there to blame for everything that's considered "wrong" instead. So, the obvious candidate is the person who's disagreeing anyway!

Then, as free_spirit has proven (for at least one believer), attention to detail is entirely absent from this place. So many people, skeptics and believes both, will have their minds made up before they even click a thread title, and the game becomes "How do I negate everything anyone opposed to me said?"

I'm tired of that game.