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The UFO forum is becoming fail

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posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Yes, I considered that point of view too (although it's sad because it would mark the end of an era for me... snif!), but my point was not only re-discussing old things (which I've said it's not harmful to the community itself) but the increasing rip between debunkers and believers that it was not this violent when I arrived here. I was simply pointing the mistakes I believe both sides are making.




posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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I totally agree, the UFO and Alien board is a very threatening place to be.
Infact, I have never posted my own UFO video- and it was a UFO- on this board because I dont feel like dealing with all the bs on this board.

A long time ago I heard it was once an honest and open place. I joined in 08 so apparantly that was before then. I would love for it to be a place where people, like myself, who have had genuine experiences would be able to discuss their experiences without fear of aggressive criticism and blatant ignorance.

I believe that is due to the amount of the regular population coming to ourwebsite- which was once frequented by the "conspiracy theorists" and now is flooded with hundreds of thousands of people who really have no idea what the heck theyre talking about. Ive lost so much patience with it. Its like being on any other website in the world now. Thats my opinion



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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Great thread and can be reposted across many UFO related forums. I myself am new here, although I visit and frequent many other forums understand this very clearly. The time it takes to flush out the crap that comes with the UFO hoaxers vs something that peeks the interest is something we never get back. Being a believer myself, I don't like wasting that time and also filter thread titles due to it.

I have seen this kind of activity drive away good researchers and members to create their own forums and flourish due to monitoring membership.

As it was pointed out already, the UFO community is bored by lack of activity, and it makes one think. Why far less activity or is it just being covered up that much better? hehe



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by Radiobuzz
 


I'm not sure what you can really expect of it all. The rabid believers will, as they always have done, hang onto cases long after they have been shown to be fakes or have a prosaic explanation. The debunkers will studiously avoid anything involving certain cases whilst spending endless hours *beating up on" those, often new to subject who have stumbled across some case that is either a known fake or already explained.

Now we have anew phenomenon that is, to some extent crippling the study of the subject. That is, people don't even want to discuss a case or sighting unless it has pictures/video that come with it. I'm sorry but the phrase "Anyone could have made that up", doesn't wash.

Personally, I'd much prefer the simple recounting, by a witness, of some sighting to any number of dubious videos or photos. OK, so it offers no closure, as such, and one has to accept the person's word as being honest, to begin with. However, if we are going to demand videos or pictures simply to gain an audience we are in danger of chucking out, possibly, some vital evidence.

I'm as tired of having to pick debunkers up over sweeping statements such as "No astronomer has ever reported a UFO", being pedalled as fact, as I am of lame videos claiming to be *absolute proof of their existence".

There, in existence and freely available on-line clear, sharply focused pictures of UFO's taken years before the days of photoshop that have, to this date, never been explained. Start a thread about them and you will see a big fat zero, in terms of the replies, from the people who claim to be able to spot a fake in 2 seconds. If you do see a reply, they are often as lame as the bug on the windscreen videos so many mistake for UFOs.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by Radiobuzz
Luckly there are still very interesting people around (tauristercus and GeminiSky come to mind on the "believers" side, internos and ArMaP on the "debunkers" side; there are a lot more of course)

internos and ArMaP are 'debunkers'?? That's news to me! They are logical interpreters of anomalies and UFO incidents, who bring out both sides of the issue in a cogent manner supported by evidence this way or that.

And then, what was the point of your post? I'm still trying to figure it out! Uh oh, That's because I'm Big Moose! Duh!


Anyway, it takes all types to make this world. Things are pretty subjective. What's sauce for the goose may be ketchup for the gander!! So you can't go around banning guys for posting vids on here - whether they show insects or UFOs. It's a discussion forum. If you think what was shown is an insect near the lens and not a UFO, just say so and move on! As simple as that!


[edit on 10-6-2010 by OrionHunterX]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by OrionHunterX
 


But some people need to be e-thugs and act all hard toward a poster!



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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I agree with what ghandi (sorry if I mispelled your username) said on page 1.

There have been a lot of people opening their eyes to what's really going on recently. That's a good thing.
I've been looking at threads on ATS for several years, but just registered as a member. Several of you have been around for a while also.
Some of the people, quite frankly, might not have any idea what is going on.
I mean, sure, they found ATS, but it might take them a bit to get their heads wrapped around things. We have been seeing this stuff and can obviously tell if some things are faked. What if they've not really ever taken time to look at a UFO video.
My dad once told me that there is a difference between uneducated people and stupid people. Uneducated people can be educated. Stupid people will continue to be stupid.
Maybe these people are just uneducated in regards to conspiracies and such.

Of course I could be completely wrong, and there are just a lot of really stupid people out there lol


Thanks for the thread, and I completely agree that the quality of the information in the UFO Forum has decreased dramatically.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by Radiobuzz
 


I have some bad news for you, internos was banned back in April.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:26 AM
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The problem is not this particular UFO forum but the UFO field. There is an absence of respectability. There is a marked difference between the golden age of UFO research and today. There seems to have been a shift away from nuts-and-bolts scientific research, the field today is dominated by conspiracy mongering. And there seems to be a change among who is leading the field. Researchers like Hynek, whether or not you agree with his outlook, were inarguably sincere men. However, the same could not be said of today's leaders; few are trustworthy, too wrapped up in personal conflicts, promoting pet-theories, self-aggrandizement or pushing belief at any cost.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by Radiobuzz
 

I have some bad news for you, internos was banned back in April.


WOW!
What the heck happened??? He was one of the leading lights here! A SME. Now that sucks!



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by OrionHunterX
 


uhhhh yeah? wtf? why was internos banned? i've been a frequent visitor since '08 and that ticks me off since internos always came correct with info and whatever else was needed for the certain situation?



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by Radiobuzz
 


In general, I agree with your point of view. I have been a member for years myself (2005). I have never created a thread and probably haven't even made enough posts to qualify in all that time.

I spend a lot of time fishing through the soup to find the meat.

Your post serves as a refreshing reminder about what serious truth seekers are here for.


[edit on 10/6/10 by FactFinder]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 02:44 AM
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Maybe the reason for the lull isn't through the fault of any members whether believers or skeptics. Maybe the reason for the lull, is lack of interesting sightings/cases. It seems like the most interesting cases happened decades ago but try to find more recent cases that are as interesting and it's harder. One contributing factor to this might be the enhancement of radar software and filters which might affect cases with radar confirmation. While it's still possible to fool radar with false signals it's a lot harder than it used to be.

But I think a real good case or interesting sighting could really light up the forum and liven things up. So I don't look for any finger-pointing about why the forum isn't better. If there were more good recent cases, it would be, but we don't need to invent them, just discuss them when they come up.


Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
And there seems to be a change among who is leading the field. Researchers like Hynek, whether or not you agree with his outlook, were inarguably sincere men. However, the same could not be said of today's leaders; few are trustworthy, too wrapped up in personal conflicts, promoting pet-theories, self-aggrandizement or pushing belief at any cost.


That's an excellent assessment Rex. Hyneck was indeed more sincere once he struck out on his own than many leaders in the field today who seem more interested in selling their next book than getting the truth out.


Originally posted by ziggyproductions05
reply to post by OrionHunterX
 


uhhhh yeah? wtf? why was internos banned? i've been a frequent visitor since '08 and that ticks me off since internos always came correct with info and whatever else was needed for the certain situation?


I think many skeptics and believers alike would agree Internos was one of the best contributors to the site and continued to be so up to the day he was banned. We all miss him and his contributions.

We aren't allowed to discuss the reasons any member was banned. What I will say is I looked at the last few posts he made and I can guess so I'm sure you can do the same if you want.

If someone posts a bug on a window as discussed earlier in the thread and asks if it's a UFO, is it because that person is hoaxing, or because they are lacking in mental capacity to determine what a bug looks like when it's too close and out of focus? Let's just say we can't make prejudgments about the person's mental capacity to determine what a bug looks like and assume they are hoaxing...they may not be hoaxing. Some brighter people have a hard time accepting that anyone could really be that dense to not recognize a bug, and assume they are hoaxing, but I don't recommend making that assumption, especially if you don't want to get banned.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by -Blackout-
Everything can only be discussed so much if no new *good* content on the subject comes out on any regular basis. As far as the UFO/ET subject goes, we cannot control how many new cases come out.



True, and i've said earlier in another thread, on a forum like this it's impossible to make progress and for anyone here to be productive in light of going up against a massive government coverup which even the president has no control over.

In my opinion, as you have stated above the only pragmatic benefit this forum will be of any use is to act as a fairly independent neutral ground for any breakthrough sightings by members, and news stories that are worthy of interest.

I have researched tons of information, and have plenty of thread ideas to post, but I don't bother anyway because I know in the end it isn't going to change anything or move the disclosure movment forward (which may not be even possible).



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by Radiobuzz
The UFO forum is becoming fail

No. Unfortunately it's been like this for years, it's jut getting worse.

I haven't been an active participant in the UFO section (The reason I joined ATS), for a long time, due to the problems you describe.

I like to take the scientific approach to things, and that way of reasoning has just gone out the window in that sub forum. You can argue all you want, but unless you are a known figure in that forum, your voice will not be heard, and any argumentation isn't commented upon.

I believe that some sub-forums in here, would contribute a lot from a way to filter out posts that are down-moderated by users that know things about the field, or moderators that can tell a good argumentation from trollish junk.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 03:57 AM
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It does take some work to sift through the dirt and extract the gold here and everywhere in studying ufos, but there is so much gold here in GOOD posts about ufos and related reseacrh that it is worth the trouble in my opinion


Check out the threads on light bending ufo and some posters have some awesome links to very strange cases that had full blown coverup attempts instigated on them.. In just one day I have uncovered an ocean of good material that I have never known about before, and I have been researching the subject since the early 1960's

There are some really bizarre cases that have high strangeness associated with them with reported feds threatening witnesses , people disappearing, and people being injured by the ufo crafts/visitors...

The best thing to do in the situation when someone produces a lame post showing birds or helicopters, stars, hoaxes etc.. is to help educate and treat with respect anyone genuinely interested in the subject, the more people that learn and keep learning, the better chance they will have in the future of being able to beat the real shills at their own game....... (maybe)



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 03:57 AM
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you can blame 75% of the problems of the UFO section on ATS that didnt implemented a system to check if a similar thread isnt available ...



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by Faiol
you can blame 75% of the problems of the UFO section on ATS that didnt implemented a system to check if a similar thread isnt available ...


Now that is fail. Making ATS run a system check to see if a thread was already posted is not only system resource intensive for their server by running a whole different set of code, it also takes the responsibility out of the poster's hands for coming up with something intelligent and original.

That is basically the equivalent of saying that it's the Chevy dealership's responsibility to check and change my oil before I drive my truck to work, every time I drive it.

For the OP:

I agree with most of the posts and attitudes that have been posted. I think that the reason that we as a community are frustrated and annoyed is that we have at least two more generations of individuals coming to the site, all of them at a core level are considered TROLLS.

That's right, like it or not, they are trolls. I can comfortably say that about 80% of the people posting here are doing so in one of three ways:

1. Creating a thread without searching for relevant information first on their subject or previous threads created.

2. Copying a previous thread's idea and simply posting it in a different configuration to gain points or flags. Most of these by the way are not really composed with a THEORY, but merely a thread stating their opinion on a subject and asking for yours in reply.

3. Legitimate idiocy or lack of thinking before you speak syndrome. I have responded to a few threads where the OP might have had his or her heart in the right place, but their brain in their pants when they started their thread. One particular thread which will remain un-named contradicted itself in the O.P. and did not even need a reply. Any intelligent member of the community could read a post that answered it's own question. This particular individual was not stupid, they simply posted before they thought about what it was they were trying to communicate to the rest of us.

It was very interesting to me in the beginning when I first joined, many years before alot of you came; there were so many bright and talented individuals here. Scientists, Physicists, Current and former military enlisted and officers, and even very famous individuals frequented this site. The flow of information was massive in such a small community at the time, and about 60% of the threads were so chocked full of scientific debate that it was like watching Michio Kaku battle Einstein. I can remember many threads with genuine theories on subjects that had three or more posts by the OP in the beginning of the thread just in research and analysis on a topic. I rarely see that any more. Now I see a paragraph of opinion about far reaching topics that can neve be proven more than speculation without investigation.

I read alot in these forums, yet I post rarely. I post opinions if I feel strongly about something and I think it can help the topic, and I will admit sometimes I do respond to some of the stupid comments. (Like this one started to be) However I feel that I always have something to contribute that is at least thought provoking and constructive.

I have never posted a thread in the UFO section that I can remember, I might have, but it would have to have been years ago.

With all the brilliant individuals who used to frequent this forum and have almost completely gone silent, those individuals who wish to post s thread in this section have to be more careful than anywhere else on ATS or the internet for that matter.

YouTube is not a trusted source. It is not acceptable in college and should not be trusted here for the simple fact that 99% of everything you see on YouTube is done for entertainment purposes or to ruffle feathers.

Use the search function here on ATS and read, read, read all the brilliantly debated topics on anything your heart desires before you post. How many people atttack me for posting only once in awhile? None. When I do post I have valid arguments because I research, then research again before I post a response to something; this is the purpose of the ATS forum, intelligent discussion.

The UFO community, or whatever you want to call it is more unstable now than ever before because of all the people looking to make a profit on hysteria and the overwhelming need to know if we are not alone.

I am not a skeptic, nor am I a believer. I am simply a man who tries to live my life on the straight and narrow and learn something new every moment of the day. I will recieve my answers eventually as we all will, but for now the only thing we can do is educate ourselves or esle we are no better than those who hoax us in the first place.

In order to rise above the trolling, you must learn to put away the bread.

King

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Kingalbrect79]

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Kingalbrect79]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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There are a number of reasons the Aliens forum has become what it has, including:

1. Lack of good recent sightings
2. Influx of new members
3. Search for postings about the same topic can return a lot of results. Many might scan the first page only.
4. Some members dont know about the known hoaxers and obvious explanations.


Maybe ATS should create a new forum for experienced members (authorised by a mod) to create threads in for people like Karl12, SkyFloating etc who consistently produce good, level headed research. I personally only look at their threads and tend to ignore the rest.

And / or maybe more forums such as 'UFO: Personal Pictures', 'UFO: Personal Experiences', 'UFO: web video' etc.

Oh, and an automated system that looks for the word 'Disclosure' and 'accidently' deletes the post



[edit on 10/6/2010 by LightFantastic]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 04:54 AM
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You obviously didn't read my post either, or did you read the op and a few replies then skip to the end to add your comments?

It's not ATS's responsibility to automate a thread function. It is the THREAD CREATOR's responsibility to use the search function.

This is why they have gone through the trouble to post etiquette for new members in very great detail on the form and function of how the site and threads are designed to work.

Although I'm sure most of the new members didn't read them either, they just wanted to get their 20 posts so they could start getting stars and flags.

Terrible.

King




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