A Satanic Query to Christians.

My friend, you have me confused with the LaVeyan Satanist thing. Have to look that one up.

I've had the pleasure of having dialogue with you through threads and U2U's. Guess I don't understand you tonight.

You seem to have a good heart, but are having a dark moment. I just don't see why you are looking for confirmation of hell and why you buy the concept so easily.

Well....hope you work through your issues. I still have great admiration for many of your thoughtful posts. Still your friend!

reply to post by AProphet1233

That's not quite how I see it.
The point is you either believe in hell or you don't (and many good people here don't).

However, if you're a believing evangelical Christian you do believe in hell, and I wanted some clarity about its nature.

Now as an unbeliever I can admit that I have moments of "doubt" - in my case, belief is doubt. So I'm trying to figure out and make sure exactly what it is that I don't believe in.

Originally posted by brilab45
Hey Halfoldman,

I'm not a theist, but if you are a Christian and believe in it's authenticity, take comfort.

Jesus explicity said that he came back to save ALL mankind. Not just the Christians, but every man, women and child. Take it as literal. Jesus will save every single soul according to the bible.

Hell is something the church created to generate more profits. I think the notion is silly.

Gaheena is a term for the lake of fire and has nothing to do with hell. But, unfortunatly the term was misconstrued for devious purposes. Hence the creation of hell was invented. The lake of fire is a metaphor for cleansing the soul before entry into heaven. Its a purity ritual only.

Get rid of the notions of hell. You are and always will be forever. If you believe in love, that is all you need. See ya in the next life buddy.

You are correct that Jesus came to save ALL mankind. However not ALL manking IS saved because of Jesus. To be saved, you must accept Jesus as your lord and saviour.

reply to post by halfoldman


Ah I see, you want something of a caricature.

Hell is the place you go for denying Jesus Christ as the one and only savior.

It is also the place you go for commiting sins without repentance and sacrament.

There is not a nice place, it is walls of fire and lakes of brimstone. It is nashing of teeth and demons consuming your flesh for all eternity. It is an eternal punishment for a life that passes within the blink of an eye.

reply to post by brilab45

I'm not quite looking for "confirmation of hell". That would be impossible either way.
But my mind as a child was taught this, and even if I became a Hindu or Muslim, I would still wonder now and again whether I made a wrong choice.

For me it's about LIBERATION, but total, responsible liberation by dealing with the beliefs that bind you.
Belief, or faith, especially for people who apostate is never 100%. Believers must hide those doubts, and repress them. If I did that I would be just like that - back to "Bronze" Age square one.
So to discuss those fears is for me a liberation!

reply to post by AUSceptic


Well....according to the bible, it is Jesus that calls upon an individual. I have no say in the matter according to Christianity. Just saying. I would love to be called upon by God, but its not my choice. He calls upon whom he wants. Saved or not.

God created all things good and evil. It makes sense. All will go back to God the creator. That is if .....that is your belief system.

I'm a pantheist all the way. An insignificant extension of God. That is my belief. That is my faith.

reply to post by AProphet1233

What you describe is not a caricature, but what millions of people believe.
Fortunately I am not responsible for that.

No.

But you can thank Satan every time:


You get screwed over by somebody

You have to lock your doors at night

Oil washes onto the shore

You see road rage

A famous person self destructs

A child is molested

Someone you love dies

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by AProphet1233

 

That's not quite how I see it.
The point is you either believe in hell or you don't (and many good people here don't).

However, if you're a believing evangelical Christian you do believe in hell, and I wanted some clarity about its nature.

Now as an unbeliever I can admit that I have moments of "doubt" - in my case, belief is doubt. So I'm trying to figure out and make sure exactly what it is that I don't believe in.

If you are really interested in finding out more, why don't you pick up The Bible and have a read yourself? See what is said about hell.
Heaven is so glorious, why would you deny yourself that? It doesn't matter what you have done before, if you come before the Lord, genuinely repent for your sins and accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour, you can be saved.

reply to post by halfoldman

Fortunately I am not responsible for that.

Why would you be? Did you mean as a Satanist?

Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by AUSceptic

 

Well....according to the bible, it is Jesus that calls upon an individual. I have no say in the matter according to Christianity. Just saying. I would love to be called upon by God, but its not my choice. He calls upon whom he wants. Saved or not.

God created all things good and evil. It makes sense. All will go back to God the creator. That is if .....that is your belief system.

I'm a pantheist all the way. An insignificant extension of God. That is my belief. That is my faith.

I'm not sure where it says that in The Bible, do you have a reference? The new covenant set out in the New Testament means that anyone who acceps Jesus will be saved.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking specifically. But I get where you're coming from. The new agey stuff seems fun and rebellious and it really is quite harmless so no one is going to really jump on your case (Or care) that you decided to hang your hat up with a bunch of hedonists. However with what little you have said you have really made yourself quite vulnerable for someone with an astute mind. For example I can tell that you:

1. Want attention
2. Are spiritual

I can tell you're quite young and angry with God. To get back at him you've decided to become a 'satanist' because in your mind you feel it is appropriate revenge. You've subscribed to your very own pseudo-religion which kind of ties in your belief system quite well. Many people would also naturally do the same. It was quite popular when I was a teenager to be a satanist. I must applaud you for at least not giving up your entire spiritual side. If you want that, you can just proclaim yourself a genius and become an Atheist, living vicariously through the scientists. Even then, they still have their own belief systems. Except they tend to entrust that with the folly of man. You, however, have entrusted that with your Self! lmao

I'm sure this is your way of crying for help and you're looking for your own answers like everyone else. You don't need to subscribe to any religion to do that. Religion is man made, just like satanism. Just like science.

You can sit around here and argue the minutae about religion with the rest of the dolts or you can choose to separate yourself from that drivel and ask yourself some very fundamental but important questions. Is what you're doing making your life better? What about others' lives? Will you find your inner peace worshiping yourself? There are very good reasons as to why these types of sins such as gluttony and greed are considered wrong. It's because they manifest themselves into things a hundred times worse.

Whether you find that peace through Jesus, or any other belief system that advocates truth, love and peace it doesn't matter what you call yourself. Jedi Knights understood this.

Anyway it's your life.

reply to post by dusty1

If you believe that an ethereal "Satan" is responsible for all that, then why do Christian societies lock up people for it?
If you're faithful enough to blame that all on a devil, then God is still REALLY responsible, because He supposedly made this devil, and he controls it all.
Or are you saying Satan is more powerful than God?

So when soldiers die and crime and molestation happens then blame God - He's the deity people pray to to fix things and hold responsible.

Originally posted by dusty1
No.

But you can thank Satan every time:


You get screwed over by somebody

You have to lock your doors at night

Oil washes onto the shore

You see road rage

A famous person self destructs

A child is molested

Someone you love dies

God gave us all free will. While Satan may lead us to temptation, it is ultimately our choice to give in to temptation.
Three times Satan tried to lead Jesus to temptation and he resisted.

reply to post by AUSceptic

Good on Jesus - many resist 100 times...but then...

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by AUSceptic

 

Good on Jesus - many resist 100 times...but then...

Jesus had exactly the same temptations of every man. That is why he came to earth. Jesus always resisted the temptation.
There were three specific challenges to Jesus by satan though which he resisted.

reply to post by AUSceptic


It's near midnight where I am. However, I promise to research your question to me and post by tomorrow morning-ish. Sorry, just not in the frame of mind to research tonight. Bare with me. Thanx.

reply to post by AUSceptic

You mean like Satan offering him all the earthly kingdoms, which Jesus (as God Himself) already owned in any case?
Gee, great moral.
Now if Satan had offered Jesus Mary Magdelene or St Peter, and He had to fight back His human sexual urges - THAT would have humanized him somewhat.
But no - it's all about fasting and masochistic stuff mere humans have done much better.



[edit on 9-6-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by halfoldman


I am new here, yet an old soul. I have heard it said that perhaps we are all part of someone else dreams, and that when they wake up, we really die.
Perhaps THIS life is the hell and there is no other? Perhaps to not go forth and be reincarnated back into life...is the real HELL...and that we have to drudge through this cruel and uncaring world again and again until we get it right.
That WOULD be hell....

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by AUSceptic

 

You mean like Satan offering him all the earthly kingdoms, which Jesus (as God Himself) already owned in any case?
Gee, great moral.
Now if Satan had offered Jesus Mary Magdelene or St Peter, and He had to fight back His human sexual urges - THAT would have humanized him somewhat.
But no - it's all about fasting and masochistic stuff mere humans have done much better.
[edit on 9-6-2010 by halfoldman]

Jesus did fight back his sexual urges. He was human while on earth and had the same urges and temptations as everyone else, yet he never acted on them.