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US Socialist/Medicare Programs: $3 Trillion Annual Loss By 2013

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posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Your definition of socialism you keep quoting is ridiculous.

A "few token changes" include the abolition of property rights.

That's not a "token change" - that's a system of enslavement.






[edit on 9-6-2010 by mnemeth1]




posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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2 things one your late to the party the freedom giveaway happened between 200 and 1/20/2009 secondly
The Teabagger Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
I, ________________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:
I will complain about the destruction of 1st Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 1st Amendment Rights.
I will complain about the destruction of my 2ndAmendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 2ndAmendment rights by legally but brazenly brandishing unconcealed firearms in public.
I will foreswear the time-honored principles of fairness, decency, and respect by screaming unintelligible platitudes regarding tyranny, Nazi-ism, and socialism at public town halls.
Also, I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
● Social Security● Medicare/Medicaid
● Police, Fire, and Emergency Services● US Postal Service
● Roads and Highways● Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
● The US Railway System● Public Subways and Metro Systems
● Public Bus and Lightrail Systems● Rest Areas on Highways
● Sidewalks● All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009federal senate appropriations)● Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
● Public and State Universities and Colleges● Public Primary and Secondary Schools● Sesame Street● Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children● Public Museums● Libraries● Public Parks and Beaches● State and National Parks● Public Zoos● Unemployment Insurance● Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services● Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or Federal Government (pretty much all of them)● Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)● Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)● Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD’s ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking● Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies● Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies
● If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care.
I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C. I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist locations, including but not limited to:
● Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History● The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments● The government-operated Statue of Liberty
● The Grand Canyon● The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials● The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery● All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DCI will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America.I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, orthrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell,and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army.
I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.
Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.
Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.
SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF ____________ IN THE YEAR______________.
___________________________ ___________________________
Signed Printed Name/Town and State



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by crazzeeedave
 


At least I'm not pledging to demand a government agent put a gun to your head and loot you of your labor, then hand the looted cash to a banker.

Btw, most libertarians are against the war.

All anarcho-capitalists are against the war.

Meanwhile, the democratic congress and democratic president has expanded the wars.

In fact there's only one guy that has consistently voted against military expansionist policy - Ron Paul.





[edit on 9-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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How funny!!!!!!!!! I don't care how in debt social secuirty is..........my kids owe me.

Yep, kids are not willing now adays to support their parents. Let 'em pay the friggin taxes.

I do find it humorous, that people have to pay for the pleasure of being born, and for what they put parents through.

I think it's a gernalization of what people have become.

Self absorbant, me.

The "Me," generation of the 80's hasn't died. That is for sure!

Really, what it is, is people are so self absorbed, they have been outsourced from taking care of elder family, becaiuse of selfisheness.

Nothing like root, dyeing@!

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Blanca Rose]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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does your $3 trillion loss negate the accellerated death taxes on estates increasing to 55%... does the $3trillion loss figure to the extra 3.5% surtax on all dividends paid out by corps/companies?... does this supposed 'loss' reflect the increased rate of taxes levied on gapital gains that Bush held to 10% until 2010...


its NO on all accounts... & as i see it the govt is going to rake in Trillions per year on the accellerated taxes...which were relaxed for a short period of time (2010) because the money vultures in the legislatures wanted a better return rate for taxes than what was in effect for their outlandish capital outlays under the old tax-base....

the puffery nan-oobs that have no idea of the hourly/working class situation... decided that 'they' had to plug in extra income in the form of taxes to comopensate for the lost revenue because they deflated the USD with their BS laws...


shoot 'em & take names later ...
(the 'shoot') reference is of photo images...not violence... (dear NSA spies)

so suk off



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose
How funny!!!!!!!!! I don't care how in debt social secuirty is..........my kids owe me.

Yep, kids are not willingnow adays to support their parents. Let 'em pay the friggin taxes.

I do find it humorous, that people have to pay for the pleasure of being born, and for what they put parents through.

I think it's a gernalization of what people have become.

Self absorbant, me.

The "Me," generation of the 80's hasn't died. That is for sure!

Really, what it is, is people are so self absorbed, they have been outsourced from taking care of elder family, becaiuse of selfisheness.

Nothing like root, dyeing@!



Well there's a problem with that theory.

Its called the Laffer Curve.

It is impossible for the government to tax your children enough to pay for your retirement.

They will print the money.

You'll get your socialist security check as promised, but it will only buy you a loaf of bread if your lucky.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 


I don't think the government will rake in any more in taxes.

We are tapped out.

Tax receipts are declining because no one has a job to pay them.

Government can raise taxes all it likes, but its not going to get any more in returns at this point. All it will be doing is taking money back that it has issued previously.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ANOK
 


Government has created the debt crisis, not private industry.

Globalist corporations are nothing without the power of government.

Goldman did not give itself 700 billion in cash, the government did.

GM didn't give itself a bailout, the government did.

AIG didn't destroy our social security trust, government did.

Citi didn't hand 23.7 trillion to itself, the government did.

Al Gore doesn't stand to become a billionare on his own, he needs government regulations and carbon taxes for that.

Boeing is nothing without government.

McDonald Douglas is nothing without government.

Raytheon is nothing without government.

JP Morgan is bankrupt without government.





[edit on 9-6-2010 by mnemeth1]




sheeze..... your incorrect on every issue mentioned !

kindly do not ask/encourage/ puff-up for a debate...

just reflect on yourself/worldview/spin on events

~~~~~~~~~~


and your last reply [Originally posted by mnemeth1 ]
was even less sensable...

the govt will get the taxes that are being increased, because tax collection follows one to-the-grave...
they will collect whether you have income, job, living wage, whatever


come on.... be at least in this present paradigm, staus-quo, the real world

[edit on 9-6-2010 by St Udio]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1



It is impossible for the government to tax your children enough to pay for your retirement.
They will print the money.


That is the way it's been done for decades. Try to change it, you will see a revolution, just on Viet Nam era people, alone.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by mnemeth1



It is impossible for the government to tax your children enough to pay for your retirement.
They will print the money.


That is the way it's been done for decades. Try to change it, you will see a revolution, just on Viet Nam era people, alone.



The revolution will come when your socialist security check doesn't buy you a T.V. dinner.

This is what happens when government is put in charge of your retirement.

They blow the cash now and leave nothing for later.

Social security is bankrupt, its finished, its kaput, fineto, done, over, gone, history!

If you do get a social security check, it will be worthless.

I don't think you get it, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tax your kids enough to pay for your retirement.

IMPOSSIBLE

NO WAY

CAN'T BE DONE

For you to get the full promised amount, government has to print the money. This is the only way you will get your check. And that check will be worthless.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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From what I can gather you are a fascist-plutocrat type, is that correct?

Most of your posts seem to be against healthcare, Social Security (you seem hung up on the Social part of the name), and any kind of government.

I'm not sure exactly what you do advocate since most of what you post lack coherence, logic, and supporting data. But what it comes off as is that you think you deserve a free ride and that you are independent of the society in which you live.

Government per se is not the problem: the problem is that too many wealthy people think like you do and have contempt for the people they exploit. If the corporate types were actually held accountable, most lives would improve.

The US is about as far as one can get from being a socialist state; that you think it is speaks volumes about either your mindset or your ignorance, I'm not sure which. The US currently functions as an oligarchic plutocracy with fascist overtones.

So far, I haven't seen you offer one genuinely worthwhile or workable suggestion, just whiny diatribes against what you mischaracterize as socialism.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


The wealthy people think like you do.

Corporate welfare requires a government.

The banks just stole 23.7 trillion from us in government handouts.

They couldn't do that without a government.

It requires force and violence to have a system of fiat currency, legal tender laws, a tax system, and a system of central banking.

People do not naturally create or use those things, they require the violence of the State to maintain.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 06:50 AM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


Sorry to burst the bubble here but Governments is the problem, the system of government we have in the US as today is a corrupted bastardization infiltrated by elites to rob this nations productivity and people of its rights.

Is just that you have not become aware yet of who truly govern in the US. . .



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ANOK
 


Capitalism is a free market of goods exchanges.


Wrong, capitalism is a system that incorporates private ownership of the means of production, money is not capitalism it is just a form of exchange.


cap·i·tal·ism (kp-tl-zm)
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Private ownership is not necessary for a 'free market' to exist.

OK you asked about resources being kept artificially scarce to keep profit high, here is one example for you...

cantontruth.blogspot.com...

I'm surprised as a 'capitalist' you don't know this, it's a big part of economics, deadweight loss is when a company over produces and if it can;t sell that overproduction it's often destroyed (waste of resources), or it is not produced in the first place (artificial scarcity of product due to under production in order to maintain high prices/the government pay farms not to grow crops for example).

So people are starving not through a lack of resources but because the capitalist system cannot survive with profit being made, profit for one person means a loss for another. Private companies take needed resources from one society (e.g. Africa) and redistribute those resources to another (the west), at an inflated price due to artificial scarcity. That takes resources away from those that need and it in order for a few people to make money, while the majority live on the bread line with no way left to produce for themselves.

You will never be free while the economy is controlled by private entities who's only motivation it to increase their own worth at the expense of the rest of us.

Most of us work 40 hours a week to help maintain this unfair system where your labour is worth hardly anything when you could be working for a cooperative/collective where you benefit directly from the profits the company makes. Work hours would be reduce, prices would be low.

The problem with unbalanced wealth is unbalance distribution of needed resources. Billionaires didn't get their by playing fair and working hard, that's a myth, get some sense of history.

[edit on 6/10/2010 by ANOK]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


I told you that I reject any claims that capitalism is anything more than a free market of voluntary exchanges of goods and services. Any attempt to say it is anything other than that is false propaganda.

Of course, private property is required in order for people to engage in trade of that property.

If property was not private (as in socialist society) there would be no means of setting prices in a market.

In fact this very problem has an economic term called "The Economic Calculation Problem"
en.wikipedia.org...

This claim that socialism has "markets" is ridiculous.



[edit on 10-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ANOK
 


I told you that I reject any claims that capitalism is anything more than a free market of voluntary exchanges of goods and services.


We're done discussing it then because you are embracing ignorance not denying it...

You are wrong in your definition, capitalism has been around a lot longer than your 'free market'.

Capitalism has nothing to do with the market, except that the means of production of resources in that market are 'privately owned', thus the community is manipulated and coerced to produce for private profit instead of for the good of the community. Basically your 'free-market' is the freedom to exploit working people (non capitalists), and rape the planet of it's resources with no one to control it.

Who will represent the worker in your system? What keeps capitalists from just paying people peanuts and firing them for no reason?

You accuse me of wanting a utopia, yet you want a capitalist utopia, a money making free for all. The people who think money is all you need to be free have no idea what freedom is. Freedom has nothing to do with the economy, you can be penny less and be the most free person on the planet. Freedom in a capitalists system is a myth, capitalists own you because they own your means of production, try living without their system, outside their system.

All you are doing is re-writing history and making new definitions for old long established terms. This is why people like you make no sense, you make up your own definitions, how can I debate that kind of mentality? Do I have to ignore the historical definition of the terms we're disusing and pretend your definition is correct? Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

Why don't we just change all terms like 'war' becomes 'peace', 'hate' becomes 'love', 'fear' becomes 'safety', yeah then everything will be alright. No need to change anything except our definition of the things we don't like..


Socialism doesn't take away private property, it only takes away the private ownership of the means of production. Instead of a private owner taking the profits and paying workers an hourly wage, all the workers profit equally from the business. There is still a market as much as it's needed. Markets will always exist because we all need things we don't have or can't make, the difference is in the basic ownership of producing the goods that go to market.

You are confused because you think capitalism means money and selling your own property and 'free-markets'. It doesn't, it's just the difference in who owns the right to own the tools needed to produce the resources we need, and after all our needs are met people can make 'money' selling stuff we don't need and only think we want because we're told we do (by capitalists) if they want. The capitalists interest is not in bettering society but taking all it can from it, this is why we are not advancing as a society but getting worse.

[edit on 6/11/2010 by ANOK]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


You can ramble on about what you think capitalism is, but its doesn't change what it actually means.

The word capitalism has been demonized by communist propagandists for decades now to mean something other than free voluntary trade of goods and services.

I reject their propaganda, and I reject your propaganda.

The history of economics is clear on this; at least until Keynesian statists drove the remaining decent people out of economic academia.

Capitalism means a voluntary market of exchange for privately owned goods and services.

That is it.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.



[edit on 11-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ANOK
 


You can ramble on about what you think capitalism is, but its doesn't change what it actually means.


I already showed you what is means, are you just dense?

Here again, please READ...


capitalism [ˈkæpɪtəˌlɪzəm]
n
(Economics) an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit in competitive conditions Also called free enterprise private enterprise Compare socialism [1]

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Here's another...


Economic system characterized by the following: private property ownership exists;

www.investorwords.com...

And another...


Capitalism definition

An economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production.

dictionary.reference.com...

Want more?...


What Does Capitalism Mean?
An economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production.

www.investopedia.com...

Enough yet?...


Capitalism, economic system based on private ownership of the means of production, in which personal profit can be acquired through investment of capital and employment of labor...

www.webuweb.com...

And no special search was needed, they are all from the first page after searching for the definition of 'capitalism'. The fundamental doctrine of capitalism is private ownership of the means of production.

Now quit trying to tell me I'm wrong, and go educate yourself, because you are obviously basing your philosophy on ignorance. Capitalism is not freedom from the restraints of coercion or exploitation, far from it, everything that is happening politically, socially, and economically can be traced back to capitalism (the private ownership of the means of production).

Now if you can finally except what capitalism actually is we can continue and discus whether it is good for society as a whole, instead of arguing over definitions. If you want to discus 'capitalism' then you need to discus 'capitalism', not the generalized definition of the term used by the general public which is not correct and generally doesn't matter unless you are discussing it specifically.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Capitalism is a voluntary market of exchange for privately owned goods and services.

That is it.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Capitalism is a free market economy.

It is not bailouts, corporations running government, government contracts, corporate welfare, government restriction of competition, government regulating business, government regulating pay, government setting production quotas, or any other use of government violence.



[edit on 11-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
It is not bailouts, corporations running government, government contracts, corporate welfare, government restriction of competition, government regulating business, government regulating pay, government setting production quotas, or any other use of government violence.


You haven't read a thing I posted, why do I even bother?

I never said it was any of those things you list did I?

I posted how many links that tell you what capitalism is? Did you read any of them...


They all say capitalism is 'the private ownership of the means of production', that is it. Everything else is a result of that.

You are very naive if you think things would be better for us if capitalism wasn't restricted and controlled. Do you not care about the planet, or people. Can you not see how private ownership of the means of production takes away your liberty? You do not have access to the means of producing the goods needed for life, you rely on the private owners to provide you with a job at their convenience and benefit in order to purchase the resources that should have been ours in the first place.

You seem to think money is the only way to freedom, but that's only logical if you except the economic system we have as the only possible reality. Americans and your capitalism, you don't realize how conditioned you are to support your oppressors. You think you're all so special and wealthy, yet you have one of the widest rich/poor divides in the world. America is one of the most divided countries I've ever been to or lived in because you have forgotten what community is.

[edit on 6/11/2010 by ANOK]



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