My beliefs have changed regarding 911

Originally posted by AdmiralX
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

Knowing if you talk, you get hurt, or your family, lose all you have, lose career, or worse wins out when you know telling will not help. The cops in my analogy can't help and you just ask for trouble. If Colin Powell said, 911 was an inside job, do you think he'd have time to explain?

If it helps, instead of theft, suppose a person saw their neighbors killed by their supervisor's supervisors. What would telling do?

Who does all this? Who takes away all that stuff from you? There's a shadowy secret society with thousands of people in it who are willing to do this to tens of thousands of innocent people?

Quite apart from the practical impossibility of menacing the huge numbers of people involved, and the likelihood that at least one person would still come forward, do you not see that this is just phenomenally improbable? You're asking me to believe that some vast number of faceless, evil Americans is bullying and threatening a significant portion of the population and managing to keep it totally secret. Madness.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Not asking anything of anyone. Look up public knowledge of financial crisis. People living in tents, ending their own lives, wars killing good people and for what? The bad people have history of evil without regret. They care about power, and their ego.

Seriously, 30000 in unpaid taxes, prostitution rings ran (barney frank is in this club), but they get promoted? You must be joking to think these criminals have remorse. Not saying all govt involved, but many know lies have been told and why lose all you have, Will it get
You anywhere?

reply to post by AdmiralX


No offence, but I'm asking you to engage with the practicalities of what you're suggesting. It's fantastical to assume that there are people powerful enough to perform the kind of cover-up you're demanding.

Remember, you claimed that almost the entire architectural and engineering communities know the truth, but they are all being effectively silenced by threats to their lives and their families. I'm not suggesting there aren't people who would happily do it. I'm just saying that there aren't enough of them.

It would require literally thousands upon thousands of completely discreet agents working inside all the organs of the state. Huge numbers of thugs ready to intimidate (in complete secrecy) vast swathes of the population. And not a single individual coming forward? Impossible.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade

Let me ask you, what do you know about the Clintons? Bill and Hillary have been in the spotlight for how many years?
Have you ever heard of the Clinton Chronicles?

www.youtube.com...

The USS Liberty story is becoming common knowledge. When did you hear about it?

Have you read a detailed analysis of the Oklahoma City Bombing? Do you still think it was simply a couple of Militia types?

www.constitution.org...

As for 911, most people, professionals and laymen, at first accepted the official story. Some that did not, were silenced or intimidated.
Without the internet, it would NEVER have come this far. It is a long and arduous task, but there are many professionals that agree...

The O.S. is CRAP. There were people that knew ahead of time. Why?

You should be asking, "how could I be fooled so long"?
You may discover a lot more than what you think.

reply to post by Stewie


What have any of these things go to do with what I wrote?

reply to post by TrickoftheShade

'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.'
1.) Fear is the tool, not 5 million oppressors. Label a person, 'terrorist' and what happens? A few examples were made, fear is now the prison guard. Basic physics and heat limits, along with smooth falling motion tells those educated in such science it was pre planned demo.

2.) Risk your life and fail, some still are (law case), knowing media and others covered up, courts won't do anything meaningful, 'state secret' gets cases halted, even epa lied in saying air was safe. Military leaders fight losing wars and for what? To not even have the public debate, and know power players profited; how to oppose?

3.) So a professor comes out dealing truth to his class, based on physics. A student tells, teacher gets labeled a truther. Media interviews, some mock him. He will then have some affair alleged, called unpatriotic, then called conspiracy theorist. Contract comes due, if he was not fired already, he gets released. School does not like fox news or msnbc reports saying, 'professor john doe, 911 truther, conspiracy nut, tells students official story is not possible.' Some how he may be called racist, or anti semitic as well which means adl and others want his head on a stick and attack; more presisure on his work.

If you cannot see this, and how people 'self preserve' so they avoid speaking out, not sure what world you live in.
Implied threats by making examples of a few, and fear knowing many go along with it make it clear what some need to avoid saying.

Sorry, you're not really engaging with what I'm saying. If you think fear of ridicule is the only thing that prevents thousands of architects and engineers from speaking about something they know to be true then you're just plain wrong.

And there is no great climate of fear in America, however ridiculous your government or craven your culture. Yours is an apocalyptic world view and as such is basically religious and faith-based, I would imagine. With the best will in the world we'll have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by AdmiralX
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Clinton was innocent.

Hmmm George bush was elected in 2000.

www.gilderlehrman.org...

He was sworn into office January 20, 2001

www.whitehouse.gov...

Less than 8 months before the 9/11 attacks.


If the WTC towers were demolished then then plans and work to prep the three towers for demolition would have been planned out and started long before george bush became president. Clinton and his administration must have been in on it too.

That is, unless you believe that one of the worlds largest demolition projects was sucessfully planned, prepped, and completed in less than 8 months.







[edit on 17-6-2010 by iamcpc]

Architects and Engineers in the USA are part of a worldwide professional community. They read each others papers, attend international conferences and seminars etc.

Even if I was to go along with the incredible idea that all of them in the US are too cowed to speak what they know to be the truth ; how come the rest of the world is not speaking out and querying why their US colleagues are being perversely silent ?

Originally posted by iamcpc

Originally posted by AdmiralX
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Clinton was innocent.

Hmmm George bush was elected in 2000.

www.gilderlehrman.org...

He was sworn into office January 20, 2001

www.whitehouse.gov...

Less than 8 months before the 9/11 attacks.


If the WTC towers were demolished then then plans and work to prep the three towers for demolition would have been planned out and started long before george bush became president. Clinton and his administration must have been in on it too.

That is, unless you believe that one of the worlds largest demolition projects was sucessfully planned, prepped, and completed in less than 8 months.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by iamcpc]

STAR THAT!

You forgot to mention that fact they also would have done in eight months IN COMPLETE SECRECY!

The reason building 7 had to come down was because alot of organising and most of the deception of that morning was orchestrated in that building, there was just too much evidence there.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Architects and Engineers in the USA are part of a worldwide professional community. They read each others papers, attend international conferences and seminars etc.

Even if I was to go along with the incredible idea that all of them in the US are too cowed to speak what they know to be the truth ; how come the rest of the world is not speaking out and querying why their US colleagues are being perversely silent ?

The reason is because not all architects and engineers think the WTC towers were demolished. Some do, Some don't.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by iamcpc

Originally posted by AdmiralX
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Clinton was innocent.

Hmmm George bush was elected in 2000.

www.gilderlehrman.org...

He was sworn into office January 20, 2001

www.whitehouse.gov...

Less than 8 months before the 9/11 attacks.


If the WTC towers were demolished then then plans and work to prep the three towers for demolition would have been planned out and started long before george bush became president. Clinton and his administration must have been in on it too.

That is, unless you believe that one of the worlds largest demolition projects was sucessfully planned, prepped, and completed in less than 8 months.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by iamcpc]

STAR THAT!

You forgot to mention that fact they also would have done in eight months IN COMPLETE SECRECY!

Well If I wanted to be accurate I would have to say that they were done, in occupied buildings, in broad daylight, in downtown new york, in complete secrecy, in the presense of millions of people without anyone knowing or even suspecting anything.

reply to post by iamcpc


The poster's contention is that in fact they all believe it was CD, but are too frightened to speak out. This stretches plausibility, to say the least.

Originally posted by lestweforget
The reason building 7 had to come down was because alot of organising and most of the deception of that morning was orchestrated in that building, there was just too much evidence there.

According to Barry Jennings , he and Michael Hess found the building empty, apart from police in the lobby, at or shortly after 9am. He said he saw steam coming off abandoned coffee cups. He and Hess were trapped for a time when they tried to leave.

It doesn't sound as though much organizing was going on there that morning.

Originally posted by AdmiralX
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.'

1.) Fear is the tool, not 5 million oppressors. Label a person, 'terrorist' and what happens? A few examples were made, fear is now the prison guard. Basic physics and heat limits, along with smooth falling motion tells those educated in such science it was pre planned demo.

2.) Risk your life and fail, some still are (law case), knowing media and others covered up, courts won't do anything meaningful, 'state secret' gets cases halted, even epa lied in saying air was safe. Military leaders fight losing wars and for what? To not even have the public debate, and know power players profited; how to oppose?

3.) So a professor comes out dealing truth to his class, based on physics. A student tells, teacher gets labeled a truther. Media interviews, some mock him. He will then have some affair alleged, called unpatriotic, then called conspiracy theorist. Contract comes due, if he was not fired already, he gets released. School does not like fox news or msnbc reports saying, 'professor john doe, 911 truther, conspiracy nut, tells students official story is not possible.' Some how he may be called racist, or anti semitic as well which means adl and others want his head on a stick and attack; more presisure on his work.

If you cannot see this, and how people 'self preserve' so they avoid speaking out, not sure what world you live in.
Implied threats by making examples of a few, and fear knowing many go along with it make it clear what some need to avoid saying.

1. You forgot to mention that Basic physics and heat limits, along with smooth falling motion also tells those educated in such science it was was a collapse from airplanes and fire. You can not argue the fact that many experts disagree. I've noticed a growing trend in my research. Experts will form a theory about the collapse of a building that was hit by an airplane and set on fire without even ATTEMPTING to determine how much damage was done by the airplane impacts and fire.

2. Risk your life and fail? The truth movement has a lot of people supporting it who have not risked their life and failed.

3. A physics professor dealing the truth. In terms of teaching you only teach theories that are accepted by an OVERWHELMING majority of the scientific community after rigerous scientific testing. (partly because some say demolished via explosives, some say demolished via super thermite, some day demolisehd via DEW, some say collapse from airplanes and fire, some say the airplanes alone did enough damage to cause a tower to collapse) The problem is that the demolition theories are not accepted by an OVERWHELMING majority of the scientific community so have no place being taught as truth in a classroom.

Not only that but teaching that the WTC towers were demolished ignores the credible science that supports the airplane fire theory.

This is why I will never know what caused the collapse of the WTC towers. Never. After years of research I only have evidence that supports theories. And boy there are a lot of theories. I have no PROOF.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by iamcpc]

Some of you REALLY need to do your homework.

physics911.net...
pilotsfor911truth.org...
cms.ae911truth.org...
firefightersfor911truth.org...
buycotts.com...
www.journalof911studies.com...

International:

www.rense.com...
video.google.com...#
www.marwenmedia.com...

A foreign perspective on why the media kept silent.

www.deepjournal.com...

Originally posted by Stewie
Some of you REALLY need to do your homework.

physics911.net...
pilotsfor911truth.org...
cms.ae911truth.org...
firefightersfor911truth.org...
buycotts.com...
www.journalof911studies.com...

firefightersfor911truth.org...

A website that presents a theory about the collapse of a building that was hit by an airplane and set on fire without even ATTEMPTING to determine how much damage was done by the airplane impacts and fire.

physics911.net...

A website that presents several theories about the collapse of a building that was hit by an airplane and set on fire without even ATTEMPTING to determine how much damage was done by the airplane impacts and fire.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

I have not even started to investigate the actual flights.

cms.ae911truth.org...

A website that presents several theories about the collapse of a building that was hit by an airplane and set on fire without even ATTEMPTING to determine how much damage was done by the airplane impacts and fire.

www.journalof911studies.com...

There were a few papers that presents several theories about the collapse of a building that was hit by an airplane and set on fire without even ATTEMPTING to determine how much damage was done by the airplane impacts and fire.

Then there were some great sources just analyzing the collapse. The speed and forces involved. Great reading.

Why are there so many people that present theories about the collapse of a building that was hit by an airplane and set on fire without even ATTEMPTING to determine how much damage was done by the airplane impacts and fire?????

I think MIT had it right in their investigation:

web.mit.edu...

When investigating the collapse of a building that was hit with an airplane and set on fire shortly before the collapse first determine the amount of damage from the airplanes and fire. So many people just outright IGNORE the damage from the airplanes and fire and look at the collapse.

I want richard gage and steven jones and all the other AE911 truth people to do an investigation like this and publish it and see what their results show. Why are they not doing it?

Something is fishy here. I know i'm being lied to and I can't figure out who is lying.

reply to post by iamcpc

No one is disputing that the planes would have done some damage. The Kamikaze pilots in WWII knew full well that they would inflict SOME damage.
They also knew that it was futile, but, that is off topic.

There is not a huge amount of mass in these airplanes. They are not missiles, designed to do maximum damage to a target.
Were it not for other factors, the fire would have raged until it was put out, burning all flammable material above the impact zone, and likely slowly spreading downward. This is NOT THE FIRST fire in a high rise, it won't be the last, and they all generate INTENSE heat.

There have been numerous explosions in building, by bombs, and the building stood. Too many.


Edit to add: Thanks for checking out the links. After a while, reread the O.S. for a laugh (or a cry).



[edit on 17-6-2010 by Stewie]

reply to post by Stewie


Well I know what MIT said about the airplane damage. It supports the OS theories for the north tower and a totally different theory for the south tower:

"Yet, we do believe that the primary damage suffered by the South Tower via the initial impact alone was severe enough to bring it down with very little outside help. This is the point of view that has been given almost no attention or thought. At the same time, several arguments are introduced later in this article that support the theory that the North Tower collapse was facilitated by fire."

I wanna hear what the experts who support the demolition theories say about the airplane damage to the south tower. If the damage to the south tower from the airplane impact was severe enough to bring down the towers with very little outside help then that is strong evidence that it is possible that the south tower coulc have collapsed without explosives, super thermite, or energy beams!

But the demololition supporters don't even attempt to refute this or even analyze it to see if it's even true! I want a second opinion from a team of experts who support the demolition theories! If it is possible that the south tower would have collapsed from airplane damage alone and (EVERYONE agrees on that) then that's a HUGE blow to the demolition theories involving the south tower!

Originally posted by Stewie

There is not a huge amount of mass in these airplanes. They are not missiles, designed to do maximum damage to a target. Were it not for other factors, the fire would have raged until it was put out, burning all flammable material above the impact zone, and likely slowly spreading downward. This is NOT THE FIRST fire in a high rise, it won't be the last, and they all generate INTENSE heat.

The airplanes weight 110-150 tons. I don't know how much force a 110-150 ton 500 mile per hour airplane has compared to the explosion of a missile but I want to know now!

en.wikipedia.org...

It was not the first fire true. But it WAS the first fire following the impact of a 110-150 ton 500 mile per hour jet engine airplane.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by iamcpc]