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How Many UFO Skeptics Believe In God And Jesus ?

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posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:14 AM
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I see a lot of posters ridiculing the existence of UFO's , and it causes me to wonder ...

How many of those same posters believe in god and Jesus ?

I mean , you can flame and ridicule someone for posting about UFO's so ...

Do any of you have any PROOF that 'god' exists ? Do any of you have PROOF that Jesus is going to return to save the world ?

It would appear to me that it is ludicrous to ridicule the existence of UFO's while believing in god and jesus at the same time .

There are countless photos and videos of UFO's , yet you cry that none of this proves anything .

Are there any photos and videos of god and Jesus ? If not , how can you justify believing in them ?

FAITH ?

The Bible ?

You know it in your heart ?

Bottom line is , there is more evidence that supports the existence of UFO's , than there is to support the existence of god .

If you disagree with this , show me your proof of god . Show me your PROOF that Jesus is who and what you believe he is .

It's incredible that you can believe in something that has no shred of evidence , while dismissing something else that has at least been filmed and photographed on countless occasions .

[edit on 9-6-2010 by okbmd]




posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


They are both intangible beliefs that give way to cultism.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:30 AM
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It's a question that needs to be asked. Unfortunately it appears that either it will degenerate into a flame war, or was designed to be one. I F&S'd but I don't think that there will be much discussion on the merits of the question. I would hope that we can find someone who is both an alien skeptic, but firm "Bible believer" to answer.

I myself am unconvinced on both issues, but evidence wise I do believe that the UFO group is winning.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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I dont belive in god. Or I dont think so. This might sound weird. But the reason why I dont know, is becouse, dont you think maybe the Bible and the todays ufo's are the same thing?
I belive (if you wanna call it that) in UFO's. Or well, I'm very updated on the subject, and are very open minded in the subject. But also has my skectical eye open


But I mean, ofc, when we seen something in the skies today, we think its controlled by someone, maybe an E.T.
But in old days, how would the try to describe such things? They didnt have airplanes, so ofc they see them as "gods/angels = aliens?".

Its just my point of veiw! I think that MAYBE these things may be the same, it would only make sence.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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The problem is that people have difficulty distinguishing between science and belief.

While they are not necessarily mutually exclusive, they are certainly not the same.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by benadrit
 


Nope , wasn't designed to turn into a flame war .

Simply pointing out how absurd it is for group A to ridicule group B , when group B comes closer to substantiating their beliefs .



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by okbmd
Do any of you have any PROOF that 'god' exists ? Do any of you have PROOF that Jesus is going to return to save the world ?


First I know this is not the first thread on this topic but I couldn't find the previous one in a quick search. So if anyone has the link to it, please post it.

Second the most famous argument I know of is the Watchmaker analogy


The watchmaker analogy consists of the comparison of some natural phenomenon to a watch. Typically, the analogy is presented as a prelude to the teleological argument and is generally presented as:

1. The complex inner workings of a watch necessitate an intelligent designer.
2. As with a watch, the complexity of X (a particular organ or organism, the structure of the solar system, life, the entire universe) necessitates a designer.


So the argument goes that a watch with all it's perfectly round gears and complex mechanisms had to have a designer, a watch can't form by accident. Similarly the living creatures we see are claimed to be far too complex to have arisen by accident.

Richard Dawkins who was exposed to this argument I think believed it at first, but as he studied evolution he eventually wrote a rebuttal to this argument entitled "The Blind Watchmaker"

So whether we are here as a result of intelligent design, evolution, a product of nature, a roll of the dice, or some other reason, we do have evidence...that we are here, and that we are indeed quite amazingly complex. How this evidence is interpreted is subjective and that's why different people interpret it differently.

Likewise, there is evidence of UFOs, photos, stories, trace evidence of "landings", etc. And just as above, how this evidence is interpreted is subjective and different people interpret it differently.

We really have 3 categories: Skeptics, Faith-based believers, and faith-based disbelievers, also called pseudoskeptics:

www.debunkingskeptics.com...


Skeptic: "One who is yet undecided as to what is true; one who is looking or inquiring for what is true; an inquirer after facts or reasons."

Pseudoskepticism (or pseudo-skepticism) is defined as thinking that claims to be Skeptical but is actually faith-based disbelief. Because real skepticism is a justifiable position, pseudoskepticism may also be defined as making pseudoscientific arguments in pursuit of a skeptical agenda.


So based on that definition, I think what you probably want to be is a true skeptic, rather than a faith-based believer or a faith based disbeliever.


[edit on 9-6-2010 by Arbitrageur]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


If this wasn't designed to be a flame war, why did you launch the first missiles?
How many
did you include in your first post?
You're just stirring the pot and it's not needed.


In case you're wondering, I don't have a dog in this fight.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by okbmd
I see a lot of posters ridiculing the existence of UFO's , and it causes me to wonder ...

How many of those same posters believe in god and Jesus ?


The simplest answer is very few, if you are talking about actual skeptics, being those who subscribe to the philosophies of skepticism.

There are some who dismiss the idea of UFOs being piloted by alien beings, instead thinking they are demons in disguise or a trick by the New World Order. Promoting another belief system, they cannot rightly be called skeptics.

There are those actual skeptics, Martin Gardner for example, who do believe in a God of some sort. However, they are quick to admit this is an irrational belief. They will admit the scientific evidence is not on their side, but subscribe to the belief simply because it is comforting.

This may seem to be in conflict with the philosophies of skepticism, but in reality it isn't. There is a difference between a belief that aliens are visiting the Earth and a belief in God. A matter of faith versus a matter of science. Matters of faith are personal and subjective, while science deals with objective facts and truths. Skepticism is concerned with science, not matters of faith. For these skeptics, the belief in God is their's and their's alone. They are not arguing that God is an objective, scientific reality, or in fact arguing anything at all. UFOs, however, are a matter of science. UFO believers are arguing that alien visitation is an objective, scientific truth. They are arguing they have scientific proof and everyone should accept it as reality.


[edit on 9-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by WickettheRabbit
 


Okay , for the sake of civility , I deleted the
's in the Op .

However , stirring the pot is always needed , in my opinion.

If not , we would all still be living in the Dark Ages of science and reason .



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Actually , I do believe in some sort of 'intelligent' design , although , I'm still unsure of any way to accurately describe it .

What I am comfortable with , is that it doesn't fit with the traditional, orthodox description of a 'god' .



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 

Good move on removing the bobbing laughing dudes, but I don't think that you're asking anything original in your post. I believe this type of discussion comes up weekly or even daily if you dig into every post.

What do you want to accomplish?



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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I cant rule out the possibility of God but I dont believe in one. I dont think the Jesus as he is portrayed today ever existed and he certainly wasnt divine. and I know UFO's exist, I just dont think they are alien spacecraft.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
Good move on removing the bobbing laughing dudes, but I don't think that you're asking anything original in your post. I believe this type of discussion comes up weekly or even daily if you dig into every post.

What do you want to accomplish?


They are completely irrelevant questions. Even if someone who is otherwise skeptical of UFOs holds an irrational belief, it doesn't lend any validity to the idea that UFOs are piloted by aliens. It doesn't prove anything. It might show that someone may be a hypocrite, but that is irrelevant. Being a hypocrite doesn't make you automatically wrong.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. Uh. Either way, have a star.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by WickettheRabbit
 


Maybe it's not original , and maybe it has been asked already , I don't know .

The search function on here is not the best tool in the world ., I have trouble finding some of my own past threads if my search is not worded correctly .

What I'm trying to accomplish , is to show people how absurd it is to ridicule someone for their belief in UFO's , while believing in something else that hasn't been proven either .



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


I think you're making a few erroneous assumptions. Of course there are some Christians who do not believe in aliens/UFO's and even members of this site who admit it. However, to assume a 'skeptic' = Christian is wrong. Especially with the membership base on ATS.

MOST (And I'm guessing about 95% of the Christian ATS members I've spoken with) believe in some form of extra terrestrial life or at the very least the probability of its existence.

Most of the 'die hard skeptics' I come across here are 'die hard skeptics' in the realm of both religion and aliens.

In other words, chances are they find it hard to believe in either. So don't assume it's some problem of great proportions because it really isn't. Or that the majority of vocal skeptics are religious. So I think some of your feelings are a bit misplaced.

In fact, from my personal observations, the 'Anti religious trolls' are often one and the same as the 'Skeptic Poo-poo-er' in other ATS topics including paranormal, aliens, cryptozoology, and various conspiracy topics.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. Uh. Either way, have a star.


I was agreeing with you. Ultimately, such questions do not add anything to our understanding of the phenomenon and are more likely to trap us in personal arguments.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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I think most people who are skeptical of the UFO visitation paradigm, are skeptical because of the quality of the evidence, and not because they dismiss the idea of ET visitation entirely. Certainly it is possible for ET intelligences to send spacecraft to the earth, even if it takes an unholy length of time for them to get here.

I think you are right, that there is a connection between ufo skepticism and religious skepticism: A need for strongly vetted evidence. But where does that need come from? Historical examples, lessons learned, the realization that 'I can be fooled too!'


[edit on 9-6-2010 by Tearman]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:24 PM
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The big reason I ask the question is , a christian lady was at my house a few days ago while I was on ATS .

She was looking over my shoulder while I was Browsing the UFO forum . This led to a discussion where she felt it neccessary to inform me that UFO's are not real because the bible doesn't mention them .

She didn't want to hear my opinion that I felt they were indeed mentioned therein.

So , I'm just sayin , how can you ridicule one , while believing in the other ?




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