The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

Originally posted by HulaAnglers
What a joke, I think men have ruined their image through lying, greed, physical abuse, pedophilia, rape, rape and more rape, porn and really bad hygiene, false gods, dumb sports, stupid endless wars, and trying to rule over everything, to end up just killing and destroying everything that is pure, natural and beautiful. You have had your reign

and have shown yourselves to be no big deal, so to all you young girls out there that think its cool to support these idiots - wake up and take charge, fight back when they try to hurt you. Most are closet homos anyway! Just my 2 cents, have a nice day

Hahahahah.. bad hygiene... thats what I've been doing wrong... And I thought it was sellable as cheese

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You're creating something that isn't there in my story. Who cares whose fault it is. Why are you basing your righteousness on arbitrarily assigning blame? It happened which is what is important. A man wanted to battle my friend over some illusion of female purity, generalized to ALL females nonetheless

He was an idiot in need of a good education.

And some women definately take words too far. Talking down to men like they're nothing and being verbally abusive is a particular kind of violence which can demand a physical response. Do you really have such a high opnion of yourself and your lame rationalizations to think you can do this with impunity? Think again.

reply to post by FortAnthem


Great post, I hope you get applause for this excellent summation of the situation.

The problem isn't feminism, the problem is that conservative control freaks have used the feminist movement to eliminate a large portion of our rights.

The family court system is probably the most abusive way that government currently strips us of our rights and our property. The system exists to feed itself, and it doesn't care how many lives it destroys to feed itself. When you go to family court, everyone looses but the court system, and the lawyers who profit handsomely from the misery of others. They are after one thing, your money.

This is why divorce is encouraged in the U.S.. How often do you hear in the media women threatening to divorce men and take everything they own, and their children? Its too bad more attention isn't paid to how criminal this system is.

Domestic violence is another tool to take away peoples rights. If the woman attacks the man, no action is taken, but should the man act to defend himself, he will be facing serious criminal charges.

The end result is that people who are not tied into the justice system have had their rights stripped away.

What is worse is that this system encourages deviant females to make false accusations against men, often rewarding them with property. If the woman can provoke a man into physical retaliation, she can have him arrested, and while he is in jail, she has free reign to take what ever property she desires.

The same thing is being done with accusations of rape or molestation. If you are a man, don't allow yourself to be put into a situation where you are alone with an underage girl. All it takes in today's current climate is an accusation to ruin your life.

All of these accusations create jobs for not only the police, but the lawyers, judges, clerks, and the vast number of jobs that support these systems.

All of these law enforcement groups make very good money, and have extremely generous pension plans. The same thing goes for traffic laws, which have become more and more draconian, where guilt is assigned at the pure discretion of the system.

Take California for example. While all the state agencies are facing large cuts, the sacred cow of the judiciary and the law enforcement are getting generous increases.

Why? Crime has been dropping steadily for two decades now. If anything, we should be decreasing the number of courts and law enforcement positions.

People talk about the federal government, but it is the state governments that are the most abusive of our rights.

Originally posted by Helmkat
If you see a woman or child in danger it is in your nature to "step up".

That is not exclusive to men. If I see someone in danger, I step up. It is in my nature, too.

Originally posted by AProphet1233
Talking down to men like they're nothing and being verbally abusive is a particular kind of violence which can demand a physical response.

Sorry. I disagree. It's just an excuse to hit.

Do you really have such a high opnion of yourself and your lame rationalizations to think you can do this with impunity?

Me? I am VERY good to men. I don't talk down to them, nor am I verbally abusive. I respect the men I'm with or I'm not with them. I don't know where you get the idea that I would verbally abuse a man, but you couldn't be more wrong. I never have. I ADORE and respect my man and treat him like the wonderful person that he is. I don't yell, I've never called him a name in 20 years and I do my very best to make him comfortable and happy.

reply to post by DarkGhost


sorry guys...most of this (minus the last portion) was replying to DG...completely forgot the reply code :-p

Hey at least you stand up for what you believe no matter how backwards I think it is.

So let’s go point by point then

Point to where I said we should feel guilt as men. Let’s think about this a moment. If a woman had a good idea, an invention, theory whatever…and it was stolen by a man who was allowed to steal by another man…then yes that is wrong. And no I am not apologizing because I as a man haven’t held back a woman in this age. Now I apologize personally for the way I treated women when I was young and stupid but it’s the same as slavery. Should I apologize for slavery being white? I didn’t do it. I abhor it and thus I won’t, but if I ever slight a black person myself then yes I will apologize. You cannot at all predict what happened back then because you didn’t live it. For all we know centuries of women’s achievements could be stolen by men for their own gain. People have in the past taken credit for others so what is stopping history from showing that some women may have invented certain things; the men writing it perhaps? Quite possible.

Let’s say Raven (my wife) and I lived in…I dunno…1224…making up a date here. Raven invents some new gunpowder (also making this up…just working towards a point) and I take credit and author a book on it and how I invented it. Who would they believe? Me the strong, virile manly husband who can speak freely or Raven the doting, ‘weak-minded’ wife who really should be ‘cleaning and cooking right now’? Yes I support the idea that this has probably happened before. Like I said you cannot tell me you know for sure that all was legit back then just like I can’t say for sure that all wasn’t legit. I am merely raising the possibility.

Now let me get right out and say the terms weak-minded and the phrase ‘should be cleaning and cooking’ were written as a mockery of how some people used to feel in ages past

Now with said I did use the word ‘we.’ I initially meant it as men as a whole in the past however I am wrong in that statement so my apologies there for accidentally inferring you or I or any present man has to apologize for actions of the past.

As for the natural order, I find that to be weak. Your argument is that men are on the whole stronger and thus deserve more? We may be stronger on the whole in physique but there are so many factors involved. Why can’t equality and opportunity be abound? Why treat females as second-class because I could beat some of them up or outthink some of them? Because as sure as I can outthink some of them, there are plenty more that can outthink me. The thing is if we never give the ‘weaker’ a chance to shine then we’ll never know and pardon this blatantly ‘feminist’ thought but thus far us fellas have been doing a bang up job controlling the Earth.

So since some people like to make inferences and I already had one incident I didn’t clear up, let me make this last point crystal clear. I am NOT saying women can’t be just as evil or couldn’t screw up a government just as bad. I am not even saying it would be good OR bad to have women in offices of the highest power such as the POTUS. What I am saying is if chances are not afforded to the ‘weaker sex’ (and I use that under your inference not mine) then we would never know just who is weaker and stronger.

Onto your third point…

I don’t mean to be rude in return but I feel you have been brainwashed by centuries of patriarchal society that says women should be at home cooking, cleaning and tending while we the men win the proverbial bread. Sorry, maybe in 10,000 BC the natural order of things was to have the men take home the hunt for the woman to cook (and I am not even sure of that to be honest) but this is a long way coming and while there are definitely examples of women being weaker, there are plenty of women out there who can do just as much if not more than plenty of us men.

We curse women for using their sexuality sometimes to get ahead. How is this any different than the saber-rattling men have done before to get ahead? The secret office handshake we give our potential new boss? Frankly if a woman or a guy does use those methods I find them both disgusting BUT I can’t fault them for using what they have. I am sure if I look back in my past I have done it at least to some extent. But why curse the women when they do the same things men do?

It’s the old adage again. If I am single before I dated and married Raven and slept with 50 women, I am a hero. If Raven slept with 50 men, she is a (I am not writing the word cue to T/C but most of you know how this ends)

Why is that? IMO it is because w are conditioned to see woman as weak-minded and feeble. If the woman sleeps with all these men she is branded a **** and she gave in to impulses. When a man does the same…”oh well, he’s just being a guy”

You want equality right? Fine, let me reverse the tables because I believe in honest equality. If a girl is on a date with her sweetheart and checks out some guy with the body like Arnold with a Denzel face (yeah that’s right I quoted Salt n’ Pepa! :-p ) then she is just looking around yet when we see some gal who is the spitting image of Megan Fox walk body and take a peek we’re dirty pigs and dogs. Bull crap!

We are all humans and all animals IMO. We all do stupid things and then have the nerve to get angry when someone breaks the rules that WE JUST BROKE.

Look DarkGhost. I disagree pretty much across the board with you on this debate but there is one factor I haven’t mentioned. A man doesn’t let others get to him. I’ve said it over and over. If you or some other guy has been allowed to be ‘weakened’ from your morals than that is just as much if not more your fault for letting it happen. If a guy wants to be metro fine. If he let’s his wife MAKE him metro then he has a problem. I will however say one thing to you. Live as you want. I said it in my earlier and other posts. Just be you. If you live as you, then you won’t have problems even if the rest of the world goes totally homosexual, metrosexual whatever because you will be strong in you and I guarantee just as I found Raven there are women out there who love the type of man you described as well.

This is to anyone now…not DG

As I said in the other thread that practically mirrors this one (why we need 15 of these threads is beyond me)

We all talk about not-conforming on this site and not doing what the man tells you…well I hate to blow your cover but we’re all products. I was raised by a father who taught me the equality of women and frankly it works for me and the rest of the women and girls in my life. If a woman tells me I am a pansy for being who I am then who cares. It doesn’t shake my foundation or harm me and I am not even upset with her. She is just being who she is, and she is clearly not right for me so I move on….but no…many on ATS will talk about the dangers of conformity in one breath and in the next they will de begging and sometimes demanding you behave their way and act according to their principles. It’s ridiculous because then they throw a tantrum when you don’t behave their way.

Live the big rule of life…harm no one…be yourself and quit telling others what they believe and what they should believe.

-Kyo


[edit on 9-6-2010 by KyoZero]

[edit on 9-6-2010 by KyoZero]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


My apologies BH, I didn't not mean to imply the desire to protect was "Male" only. That apt used tag "Mama Bear" exsists for a reason. I was just trying to hit on the fact that many of our behaviors were programmed into us long ago.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I'm sure you are a good woman that your guy can appreciate, unlike the one in my story.

I just have a problem when certain women choose to be master manipulators through words and psychology, that say "Put me on a pedestal as a woman, but nevermind me taking advantage of you and subverting your good intentions." All a women like that wants is power, period. And what do men do who want unmitigated power over a person, they hit. These people are perfect for and deserve one another.

Originally posted by AProphet1233
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

I'm sure you are a good woman that your guy can appreciate, unlike the one in my story.

I just have a problem when certain women choose to be master manipulators through words and psychology, that say "Put me on a pedestal as a woman, but nevermind me taking advantage of you and subverting your good intentions." All a women like that wants is power, period. And what do men do who want unmitigated power over a person, they hit. These people are perfect for and deserve one another.

...and ya know what...you're right. For those who think I am only attacking men I think you make a good point. Equality should be total in the best scenario. Responsibility and consequence just like prize and award should be the same across the board

-Kyo

reply to post by AProphet1233


I think your friend was very foolish for scattering her luggage and her clothes, and simply for letting her get to him one last time.

Losing control of your emotions is not acceptable, it is childish. Your friend is lucky he didn't get arrested. Did he bother to think of how his acting out his violent attitude affected everyone in the area?

This has nothing to do with feminism, there are certain ways you need to act in public.

I do agree that assuming the man is wrong and the woman is right is the wrong reaction to take. There are numerous times that the person acting out has reason to be upset.

Originally posted by AProphet1233
I just have a problem when certain women choose to be master manipulators through words and psychology, that say "Put me on a pedestal as a woman, but nevermind me taking advantage of you and subverting your good intentions."

So do I, man. I hate women like that. I have no problem saying it. I spent 15 years getting my husband to trust me because of women in his past who were just as you describe. Women like that give women like me a bad name, just because we share a gender.

Thanks for the discussion, your patience and for working through this with me.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

But I think the REAL threat to some men came when (recently) women have stopped using men's success and capability as the measure to which they might wish to attain and started seeing beyond any comparison to men, but instead to being the best person they could be, period. We stopped comparing our successes to men's successes and instead started to search for our own inner happiness and fulfillment. We no longer depend on men's achievements to gauge our own.

Excellent insight. I feel the exact same way especially in terms of a business or corporate environment and have been pondering this recently. When first joining the work force, women felt they had to 'be like a man' and 'do it like a man would' in order to succeed. This is so wrong on so many levels.

It really stunts certain perspectives that can be an asset to success when we only focus on 'masculine success methods' while ignoring the 'feminine success methods.' I do think you are spot on with that. Unfortunately, we still have a long way to go, though, IMO.

For instance, I can't help but notice that many public figures or high profile upper corporate women often have a closer association to male character qualities than female. Or while holding certain jobs, I would notice the females who received promotions were generally the ones who mimicked their male coworkers.

So there is still a bit of an unbalance there but I definitely agree with your insight into it. It shouldn't be that way and I hope more of us come to realize that.

reply to post by AshleyD


couldn't agree more Ashley. I do honestly wonder how much women could have achieved earlier in history had their side not been largely ignored. Again...don't bite my head off...my opinion

-Kyo

But the truth is that the sexualisation of our society is today so grotesque that even the most right-on commentators can no longer pretend all

read more

Okay, there's good news and bad news.
First the bad news: there is no good news.

On average, women live sixteen years longer than men, are the men worn out?
Is it something else,? natures payment for being a woman?
Just to cock a snook at nature, in my family, the husbands usually out live the wives!

reply to post by KyoZero


Not all societies oppressed women, and many women succeeded and rose to great heights in ancient times. History is full of powerful feminine figures.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Can you give an example of what you mean by this? Specifically, what is happening in the media, court systems and societal settings that makes you think that women are the rulers and men are slaves?

Well the cour systems are very easy. For decades now judges and prosecutors have always used the men as scapegoats. Child support abuses and really dirty custody battles in which the husband should have been awarded yet wasn't because of favortism among women.

The media and in societal setting there's been this decrease in a man's image. Perhaps I am over thinking the issue, but I consistently see the men's reasoning being looked at as hogwash under the pretext that men have ruled the world for so long, they must be wrong all the time, just look at the way things are.

I must disagree to an extent. It's certainly possible that since women are coming into their own and are no longer just an extension of the man they're with, they no longer put up with the caveman-type of guy who makes all the rules and expects his dinner to be on the table at 6 or else.

Agreed with this point, I don't expect that to continue either, obviously we needed to update the gender roles, or my opinion, eliminate them all together.

We never did like that, we just endured it because we were women. But to be totally honest, I like a balance of a guy who will take care of things AND be sensitive enough to share his thoughts with me. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I don't see anything wrong with a "senstive" man either. My problem is when I look at the world and I see a consistant attempt to make men base their life decisions, whether it be behaviour or dress or child raising on the wants of women. Obviously nobody is forcing them, but our youth might not realize until they are much older that they've been conditioned to think this way.

If men want to be metro-sexual, it's ENTIRELY their choice. There are PLENTY of women who don't want a man who takes longer in the bathroom than they do.

Metro's came directly out of that need for emotion and better dressed men and everything else that encompases that "pretty", "sensitive" guy that all women do not want, but our media and entertainment industry tell young men they do.

You're going to have to go into more detail about this. How are men being forced? And I haven't read the rest of the thread, maybe I will find some of my answers there.

Perhaps the OP was hastily written and I should not have included words like forced. I just feel like over all the propaganda to change men to suit a women, instead of old change a women to suit the man has become the norm.

As you can all see, I have a bit of trouble expression my opinion on this issue, so bear with me .

~Keeper

[edit on 6/9/2010 by tothetenthpower]

reply to post by pikestaff


hate to be 'that' guy but the difference in sex is that women are expected to live around 2 years longer than men

WLS

-Kyo

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Not all societies oppressed women, and many women succeeded and rose to great heights in ancient times. History is full of powerful feminine figures.

Agreed...but I think the the oprression still stood in a huge number of socieites. The point is I believe it happened to some degree. You and I may disagree on the degree to which it happened...but I think it was there and quite large.

just my thoughts

-Kyo

Originally posted by AshleyD
When first joining the work force, women felt they had to 'be like a man' and 'do it like a man would' in order to succeed. This is so wrong on so many levels.

Agreed. But we didn't know what else to do. We looked at men as the models of success and modeled ourselves after them. Remember when women even went so far as to wear men's suits? I mean, talk about imitation being the highest form of flattery!

Interestingly, today, when women strive for success, AS A WOMAN instead of imitating men, they are sometimes shunned for using their "feminine wiles" to get ahead... or for appealing to the sexual stereotypes of society.

For instance, I can't help but notice that many public figures or high profile upper corporate women often have a closer association to male character qualities than female. Or while holding certain jobs, I would notice the females who received promotions were generally the ones who mimicked their male coworkers.

This is true. Women are still in flux regarding finding their path to success on their own terms. But I have no doubt that they will eventually step into their own. And it won't be by competing with men or putting men down. The only way we'll truly reach our potential is by honoring and respecting men as we wish to be honored and respected ourselves.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

So, people aren’t going to like me for this one, primarily the girls here on ATS, but ohh well it needs to be said.

Feminism refers to political, cultural, and economic movements aimed at establishing greater rights and legal protections for women. Feminism includes some of the sociological theories and philosophies concerned with issues of gender difference. It is also a movement that campaigns for women's rights and interests.[1][2][3][4][5] Nancy Cott defines feminism as the belief in the importance of gender equality, invalidating the idea of gender hierarchy as a socially constructed concept.[6]

Source

This is but one person's take on Feminism, what is your own take here, OP?

So this is the basic premise of feminism. It was started as a great movement, an amazing movement in order to push for all the things which were stated above. Now most of those things have been accomplished on some level or another.

I was there, friend, when the women burned their bras and demanded equal pay and recognition, and I have to say, I agreed then, and still do. But, sadly, there are a lot of women who still do not receive equality, the recent Walmart Class Action suit reflects that.
Also, there are a lot of repressed women, women who are afraid to say what is on their minds for fear of retaliation from men.

It seems that today’s feminism is all about reducing the male gender to nothing. Continually pushing an agenda that seeks to demonize and put down the male perspective in favor of that of women.

I do not agree with this, the only thing hurting on you, a man, it seems, is your ego. Now don't get me wrong, I too am a man, but my ego does not drive me like it drives most men. Women will never reduce men to nothing, they need us as we need them.

I have seen this happen first hand in the media, court systems (primarily family court) and in societal settings in general. It seems in this day and age the women are the rulers and we are the slaves.

Hmmm, you say the women have made you into a slave. Are you saying that before this happened, the women were slaves? That smacks of Islam, and Christian sects that treat women as slaves to men, doesn't it?

There’s also over the past decade or so, a movement that has arisen to ‘feminize’ men into being more women like. The age of the lumber jack and the protector are days of the past it seems. Women crave the sensitive, emo type character we see in the movies and books of today’s youth.

I don't agree. You obviously do not hang around "men" places. I was an auto mechanic for many years, and still on occasion go into a service area, to talk to the service people and smell the smells of a garage again. This is a man's world, in my career I did see a few dedicated woman mechanics, but they are few, and far between. I think what you are seeing is the Gay people can finally walk with pride and without fear, and this is what you see, on the street, and on TV and films. I remember when billy Crystal played a Gay man for the first time on TV, on "Soap." Things have changed since then. When I see a Gay man, it does not threaten my manhood, I am a secure hetro, and have papers to prove it! I have worked for a few people in the service trades that would not work for Gays. Not me. As a self employed mechanic I worked for a lot of Gay men. They dress nice, smell good, and always pay cash.

You could also use the new term “Metro Sexual” as the defining label to this new bread of men.

I don't really like labels, have gained more than a few in my life, so I won't agree with a new one for emasculated men.

I want to open a discussing about the points made above, in regards specifically to men being looked down upon as second class citizens, and being forced to change themselves in order to be successful in what I call today’s “Woman’s World”.

Thoughts ATS?

Ok, you asked, now you will get. As I said above I am a man, thrice married with two grown kids and two step kids of school age, and having consoled abused women for over 25 years, I think I am qualified.

Woman have been suppressed, and oppressed for many years. I mostly blame religion for this, the "original sin" in the Garden of Edin being one thing they use to further this. Women are naturally smarter than men, and their reaction time is quite faster, they have a greater tolerance to pain, and men want them. Not just Earth men either. Consider the following webinks, and I will sum up after.....

The Oppression of Women in Early Christianity

THE STATUS OF WOMEN IN THE CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES
(If one reads into the New Testament, since the Adama was created before the
Eve, then men are naturally more worthy than women)

Women, Shari'a, and Oppression

Muslim Oppression of Women

The Folly of Sexual Repression

Historical killings for Christianity

Modern killings for Christianity

Women's Inferior Status in the Bible

Women of the world, this is for you. The Sacred Feminine has been hidden away for too long. It is time to bring it forth again, and place the Goddess of all Creation back on her Throne. It is your time, the Age of Woman. Women shall come into power in politics and government. Women shall throw off the chains that the Christian Church, and the Muslim Teachings have placed upon you. You shall be free! I, and many like me, offer my power to you, the women of this planet. It is you alone that must save this planet from certain destruction at the hands of men. It is you that must run the factories that hire workers, and the time is long past with Teachers, both male and female, be paid what you are worth! The time has come for you to arm yourselves with knowledge, and skills, for a woman armed does not get raped.

You are our Mothers, our Sisters, our Daughters, our Aunts and Grandmas, you gave us all life! When all pass into the Spirit world, the time to act will be then. forces will attempt to steal your power, and trap your soul once again. Do not listen to the voices! Listen you your own inner voice, the voice of the Sacred Feminine. Leaders will appear, and together we shall create a new Earth, free of oppression and male domination. I will most happily submit to the rule of Women. Love and Light to all.
There is a Goddess within all women.