Originally posted by Aeons
Gosh, if the most privileged men on the planet are this damn whiney about how bad they got it I feel REAL BAD for everyone else.

Or does it just make your blood boil to acknowledge that without external influences, men tended to achieve more than women did? Does it anger you that men did not need women to form a Men's Liberation Movement so that gender balance in the workforce could be achieved? Feminism has been very successful at destroying the traditional family and encouraging parents to allow the state to raise their kids for them.

[edit on 9/6/2010 by Dark Ghost]

I said this would be an issue for a few years on here and (like this guy will soon see) the women on here literally went to war witth me. I had even men on here attacking me, helping the women out and all I was trying to do was "wake the men up" as to what was happening. Well, finally, it seems men are waking up to wat feminist are up to and all of the bashing that I took for years on her from angry women, being warned by ATS to tone it down.........if men are waking up and opening their eyes. It was all worth it! Look up my threads and you will see how many times I warned, although I bet most of the threads have been removed. I will say it again, for the feminists (who have special interest above men)....a storm, your way comes. No, this is not a threat Homeland Security or whomever may be reading, it is just the way history rolls.Equality is fine but feminism steps above the level of self-servient greed and hate and distain towards all men, in so much that our very existance, as men, is a threat to their self-serving agenda. Good to see that men are seeing the truth. Star and flag, I would give more if I could.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Phenomium]

The problem with any movement is that it's. . .well . . . a movement. Generally, when anything hits that level it turns into a cyclopian monster with tunnel vision that only sees what it sets its eye upon.

Is the "Feminist Movement" destroying the image of men? Perhaps only if men say it is. Words are words. Ideologies are ideologies. Men claim women want effiminate men who are overly-sensitive and cry at the drop of a hat. Women claim men want Donna Reed in the kitchen and Marilyn Chambers in the bedroom.

Have to say, I think it all depends on circumstrance.

I grew up in a very large family (69 cousins on Mom's side alone). Every Sunday morning, Grampa had the apron on and the pancakes stacked for everyone who stayed. Men changed diapers and women shoveled sidewalks. Men hunted and women cooked. Men mopped, and women mowed the lawn.

It's not so much "Men" and "Women" that are being challenged here as much as it is the definition of their roles. Individuals are pretty much capable of sharing any task regardless of whether they're a "Tab A" or a "Slot B".

Equal pay for equal work has been a difficult thing for a Patriarchical society to accept. That's just a fact. The "I Hate Men" crowd's got it all skewed as well.

People are people. Once everyone hips themselves to that fact, movements won't be necessary, and everyone'll be in the club.

I might get a flaming for this, here I go anyway!

I don't care for most feminists. Some, not all, seem angry, and mostly bitter. They seem to have a chip on their shoulder, and categorize all men as losers and dogs.

I want to be a lady, and want to be seen as a lady. I'm not helpless or weak. I can hold my own. I want to be respected. I don't mind a man opening a door for me.

My mother, as a young woman during the feminist movement, taught me all men were pretty much no good. That they can't be trusted, and that I should never get married and have children.

It is interesting to me that I am so different from her despite my upbringing.

I can see where some aspects of society have been torn even further down during the gangsta rap era on MTV. The imagery of sexualized women, money, drugs, and material things... it really changed society even further. Women mainly held as sex objects, teaches young men not to respect women.

There are many things besides the feminist movement that has contributed to the problems we have in our society. We do not have much of a healthy balance between the male and female.

I loved listening to my grandparents talk about when they were young, and how different societal values were back then.

I have no desire to dial back what progress we have, but it would be good to see respect between both sexes.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Aisling]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
There’s also over the past decade or so, a movement that has arisen to ‘feminize’ men into being more women like. The age of the lumber jack and the protector are days of the past it seems. Women crave the sensitive, emo type character we see in the movies and books of today’s youth.

What utter rubbish.

Women still want a MAN, they just don't want a PIG.

As a woman, I hate the feminist movement. Always have. I long for those days when men were men, relied on a code of chivalry, snatched up women and had 'em pressed against a wall. Came in ready to give their lives for honor... =D I like me some brave, manly men.

I have to say that I got a real kick out of the thread title!

The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

I think Men have done a pretty good job of ruining our image without any help!

Right now in the world Men still rule over women with a cruel hand and much as many of us revile this state of affairs it is still a reality. However are these men more "manly" then men in more equal regions? is part of being a man the ability to exercise power over all things in his domain? If the answer is "yes" then the feminist movement is certainly a crusade against this defination of being a man.

In societies where women are afforded more equality you see a much more level playing field. Equality is blind, it does not care about gender, sexuality etc. Now Women (and Men) are free to be selective, to make their own rules and choose. Now take into account the "mating game" and you will see how this will explain some of the changes we have seen in society of late. Who will be the best choice to ensure the future of your offspring? is it the tough thug or the cerebral nerd? The dirty street dweller or the well groomed "metrosexual"? Who is most likely to be parasite free? who is reflection of your own desires?

I wonder how feminism has changed Lesbian relationships? Has it changed how other groups see themselves?

I say the answer is "yes" and that self reflection is a good thing, as a people we can no longer afford to squander our potential boxing ourselves into "roles".

Just look at all the commercials on TV.. Like the guy who cant fix anything in his house or clean anything, the woman comes on and roll's her eyes, "we just called the plumber" etc.. "honey I cant clean the carpet" "silly man, I just called stanley steamer" "man says, ohh duh" One of my favs is the moving company one, where the guy is sleeping on the couch thats being moved into the moving truck while the woman is in charge of the move.. The demasculination of men. My guess is that the gov wont be affraid of a revolution if all the men are turned into wusses.


Deebo

Yeah. It's SOOO hard to be a white Christian male. We're all oppressed and stuff.

Originally posted by CaitCorbett
As a woman, I hate the feminist movement. Always have. I long for those days when men were men, relied on a code of chivalry, snatched up women and had 'em pressed against a wall. Came in ready to give their lives for honor... =D I like me some brave, manly men.

Shut your mouth and get back in the kitchen.


Kinda like that?

Originally posted by mothershipzeta
Yeah. It's SOOO hard to be a white Christian male. We're all oppressed and stuff.

Don't forget heterosexual and able-bodied - These heterosexual able-bodied white men do have it SO very hard!

[edit on 9-6-2010 by VelvetSplash]

Women crave the sensitive, emo type character we see in the movies and books of today’s youth

No. Biologically we crave the protector.

Feminism started out as a "movement" to ensure that women had the same opportunites as men did. There was once a time when the only path available to women was the path of motherhood. A woman was seen as an extension of her husband, her identity centered around her children and her household. Personally I find this to be a noble path and one I aspire to. However, I know that I have a choice to take this path, should I want to forgo having chidlren and instead focus on a career, that path is open to me.

The problem with present day feminism is that it has denigatred the most noble path a woman can take, one of "keeper of the hearth". It isnt' about the choice anymore, it is about the requirement that a woman have it all. A career, kids, a big house, ect. Something will suffer, and if you look at society as a whole, it is the children that suffer, and this of course results in all of us suffering as these neglected children become adults.

Our world would be a much better place if we accepted the fact that nature has shaped us to be uniquely qualified to fulfill certain roles in life.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Or does it just make your blood boil to acknowledge that without external influences, men tended to achieve more than women did? Does it anger you that men did not need women to form a Men's Liberation Movement so that gender balance in the workforce could be achieved? Feminism has been very successful at destroying the traditional family and encouraging parents to allow the state to raise their kids for them.

[edit on 9/6/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Does it make your blood boil at all to realize how many things COULD have been done by women if men had not oppressed them for millennia? It sure does for me.

While I am at it…

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

In fact, you just need to be an average person that cares about men's rights and the mental health of youth to realise that Feminism has been detrimental to these areas.

[edit on 9/6/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Feminism, while it probably has gone too far should NEVER have been needed. The problem is men over history have squashed a lot of original female thought. How many things did women invent or could have invented or done had someone not turned them off?

I see some tremendous problems in the men at large.

NOTE: This is not to say all men or all women. This is merely the observations of one guy…me

1. Balance – Why do we have to fit into a category? Why can’t men be strong one moment and cry the next? You do not have to find your ways and stick to them. That isn’t pride, it’s stupid. For the most part I am a pretty graceful guy. I ride horses in tight pants and hunt coats and yes have been called gay MANY times. I like to work on my appearance and yes even like –gasp!- fashion. I like romantic movies, chick flicks, sharing feelings and all that but it would be stupid of me to think that is the only way for me to ever be. Sometimes chivalry is called for. Sometimes strength and raw power is called for.

2. Lack of confidence – So a guy called you gay. So a guy hit on your wife. Did it injure you in anyway? If it did then I think you have a huge lack of confidence. Raven can handle herself. She is a big girl and makes her own decisions. I have seen several guys buy or try to buy her drinks. I’ve had guys hit on her right in front of me. Sober guys no less! The important parts were her safety and the fact that she still came home with me, loved me no less, and no issues were caused. Now with that said I refer back to balance. If a guy doesn’t take the hint and physically grabbed her you can bet I would go into action to save her if she needed it.

My point is why do guys or for that matter anyone lose their minds over harmless situations and labels? People called me gay. It doesn’t make it true. Not to mention if you wanted to stick to the completely shallow side of the argument then consider this. What is going to damn you more when accused of being homosexual; fighting back and getting angry or just walking away?

3. Conformity (This one is for both genders IMO) – Quit reacting to status and social pressures. Don’t be macho, don’t be metro, just be you. For the gals…don’t be a ball buster, don’t be a girly-girl who hates dirt, just be you. I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if you just act as you, somebody out there is looking for your exact type. Why we put on masks is beyond me. Yes I do understand we all have shadows or demons that aren’t meant for the general public to know and thus I see no harm in keeping some of that to yourself. On the other hand putting up a front is ridiculous because someday that front will come crashing down and all you are left with is a short amount of time to explain your lies.

4. Lack of the ATTEMPT to understand (Also for both genders IMO) – This one bugs the ever-living-poop out of me. For the love of cake guys you HAVE a feminine side. Ladies you HAVE a masculine side. Why not try to learn about those sides. Why can’t I show a feminine side and still be heterosexual? The thing…I can and I do all the time. Learning a skill doesn’t change the cardinal pieces of you unless you let them and if you DO let them change then frankly I think you had a rocky foundation to start with.

Look folks I am 30. That is not that old especially when you consider the first 10-15 years I am not studying the world around me very hard. So at best I have had 15 years to learn society and what is happening but I know some things.

I realize the position this puts me in. On one hand I could be seen as trying to incite adoration from women by lying and saying I am pro-woman. I could also be seen as metro or homosexual for my beliefs so let me speak to that.

I am done pretending and walking on eggshells. I am a guy. I speak what I feel. If you think I am putting up a front right now you are wrong. If you think I am saying I am better than other guys you are wrong. If you think I am gay or a feminist then so be it; label me as you will. I just don’t’ care anymore what anyone thinks of me.

I am so far from perfect I can’t even find it anymore. The point is at least I am trying to reach a common ground. I have struggles with myself all the time. I screw up constantly but for the love of all that is holy I am begging the male and female populace to stop labeling each other, live as you and only you, be true to yourselves and make an attempt to understand each other. I cannot fathom how different things would be if we started living this way.

Guys, quit blaming the feminists for making us ‘pansies.’ For that matter quit thinking metros are ‘pansies.’ They are human and individual just like you are. Again if women ‘made’ your brothers ‘pansies’ it is because your brothers LET themselves become so. Besides who cares if they are. It makes them no less or more than you are.

Maybe one of these days we can stop blaming each other and start shifting blame where it belongs…ourselves. I stayed single as a youngin for one reason only; I was STUPID. I thought girls were objects and nothing more. Oh sure I blamed it on society and being ugly but come on, look around me. I know damn well plenty of people who society deems ‘ugly’ find true love and happiness. No, I don’t play the victim. If I had faults that drove girls away at that age it was because of my misogynistic glasses, not my haircut or some extra pounds. What a pathetic boy I was and thank goodness my father woke me up.

Quit being victims…anyone…guy, girl…who cares. If you are playing victim you have some things to work out. A victim is a person who finds themselves murdered, kidnapped or raped. THAT is a victim.

And quit telling women what they crave. That goes for women too. Just because you may crave the tough guy doesn't mean the girl next to you won't go for the emo.

-Kyo


[edit on 9-6-2010 by KyoZero]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
In recent years I've seen almost the direct opposite of that. The beating down of the typical masculine type has created an exaggerated masculine identity.... Prized traits include brutish aggressiveness, nonsensical violence at the drop of a hat, illiteracy, tendency to copulate with anything that moves.

While women, young girls especially, will dance all night to music that is essentially about treating them like trash. They'll seek out one of these brute types and stay despite constant abuse and they'll have limitless children without the means or stability to support them because it's "the thing to do."

Honestly, I thought feminism died decades ago. There are more fledgling porn stars and single-use sluts coming up now than there seems to have ever been. The females have a complete lack of respect for themselves while the males have a distorted and warped concept of respect that is devoid of dignity.

Well, I think you and the OP are both right. There is a push to sort of demonize men, or even emasculate them, and plenty of men are being unfortunately shaped by that pressure and having to cope with it.

The Social knee jerk to that of course is the development of the Super-Brute. The physical manifestation of machismo in all the worst aspects of it.

Also, this social push includes convincing women that they are 'less than', and have no real concept of self respect, and convincing men to see them that way. I would argue that the rather casual use of such a phrase as 'single use slut' is rather representative of that to a degree.

I do wonder how this will go within a few generations... Will we move back to autocratic, or even brutal partriarchy...? Or will this push-pull continue on, and fragment and create pocket societies where there is equality, or partriarchy, or even martiarchy? Or...?

I would say IMO that I don't see an overall matriarchal society actually getting a foot hold in this country.

The men will ah... 'Rebel' long before that happens. I think that is part of what we are seeing now. Besides, in times of strife, things tend to socially swing in favor of the men. We may very well be looking at the end of 'feminism' as a social force within the next generation or two.

In a workplace, a woman doing the same work as me deserves the same pay, the same power, etc. I have no problem with this, the workplace is a sexless environment that requires only brain and/or muscle to get jobs done.

Outside of work, in a personal relationship, people identify who they are and what they want...I prefer my women to be female and so subscribe to a certain lifestyle where both know their roles...I need a mental equal, but that does not mean I want them to be trying to take control of anything, quite the opposite.

I hear men often stating that they have lost their identity with women...my simple response is, if your soo weak as to lose it to begin with, then you lost nothing. You cant whine and complain that your not being respected, you simply command respect and accept control...

with a bit of pun intended, you got to "man up" to the task of being the Man in a relationship.

I dont pay much attention to movements overall in these matters...the fem movement is fine with me, they focus in on workplace matters and subjegation of females in general in culture, which is fine..(I will subjegate my own girl in my home, no need for the media to blast it across tv ).

The Image of men is strength and conviction...moaning about losing that image only furthers the destruction of the image...dont cry when your down, just stand back up, sholders back, head high, and if some woman or poof man tell's you to be ashamed of being a man, dismiss them from your presence. Women love men with conviction and strength (not to be confused with arrogance and dickishness).

BTW - here's a tip - your misogyny is showing whenever you refer to adult females as "girls".

I'm a 38 year old guy, surrounded by women (I have 2 girls of my own) and I have 2 older sisters. My wife is a very strong person and a stout personality. Do I feel like I have to kowtow to her? Do I feel like I am not "allowed" to be masculine? Psssh... It's hogwash.

Sorry - but if you feel threatened by women, or that some of your masculinity has been "robbed", then go see a therapist. The problem is with you, not with women wanting to be our equals.

If you think that women seek the "metro sexual" male - you're in the wrong circle of people. My wife's sister and ALL (and I mean every one of them...) of her friends have said that they wish they could find men who do what I do: fix cars, build houses, work on computers, and generally act like a guy. We actually had a good conversation about that. And these women are all earning over $100k - they're strong, educated, independent people.

Are they open to the male of 30 years ago that comes home, plops down on the sofa and asks:

"Where's my dinner?"

Absolutely not. They are looking for an EQUAL partner, but also one that is a man's man.

Like I said - if you are the type that expects your wife/girlfriend to simply roll over when you try and cram her into the stereotype of the past, then the problem is with you - not with the women.

HOWEVER -

I HAVE noticed a venomous and rapid increase in the portrayal of males as idiots, fools, and just general asses on television. Think about how many ads you see where the wife/girlfriend has to cover/clean-up/fix whatever her screwed up mess her male-counterpart has created. It's disturbing and a trend I really hope will pass.

I believe we were just conforting ourselves without care for women.We've been aware of thier condition when they wanted to vote. anyway, today's true feminists are ugly and bad looking,have horrible sense of fashion and dosent represent modern women's society.

Originally posted by SSimon
today's true feminists are ugly and bad looking,have horrible sense of fashion and dosent represent modern women's society.

OMG - I almost have to think that you're a troll! YOU are personifying the problem!

And quit telling women what they crave. That goes for women too. Just because you may crave the tough guy doesn't mean the girl next to you won't go for the emo

I don't think you understand. For millenia of evolution we have evolved to "crave" the protector, the provider. This not something we choose. This is just something that is. Of course enviornment plays a role, and since the last few generations have been heavily influenced by media, it may seem like women are preferring less masculine men, but do not be fooled for biology is more powerful than enviornment.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It seems that today’s feminism is all about reducing the male gender to nothing.

Can you give an example of what you mean by this? Specifically, what is happening in the media, court systems and societal settings that makes you think that women are the rulers and men are slaves?

There’s also over the past decade or so, a movement that has arisen to ‘feminize’ men into being more women like.

And you think women are behind this? I don't think it's women who are spilling estrogen into the environment, nor is it women who are forcing men to behave differently. If you disagree, I'd be interested in knowing what (specifically) women are doing to feminize men...

The age of the lumber jack and the protector are days of the past it seems. Women crave the sensitive, emo type character we see in the movies and books of today’s youth.

I must disagree to an extent. It's certainly possible that since women are coming into their own and are no longer just an extension of the man they're with, they no longer put up with the caveman-type of guy who makes all the rules and expects his dinner to be on the table at 6 or else. We never did like that, we just endured it because we were women. But to be totally honest, I like a balance of a guy who will take care of things AND be sensitive enough to share his thoughts with me. I don't see anything wrong with that.

You could also use the new term “Metro Sexual” as the defining label to this new bread of men.

If men want to be metro-sexual, it's ENTIRELY their choice. There are PLENTY of women who don't want a man who takes longer in the bathroom than they do.

I want to open a discussing about the points made above, in regards specifically to men being looked down upon as second class citizens, and being forced to change themselves in order to be successful in what I call today’s “Woman’s World”.

You're going to have to go into more detail about this. How are men being forced? And I haven't read the rest of the thread, maybe I will find some of my answers there.