The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

Feminists become what they hate...

They are plugged into a matrix that believes shopping is part of the leisure industry, they are the most vulnerable target for nostalgia and self consciousness, they are more gullible than the children that they blackmail instead instead of mothering.
The androgyne the Sun and the Moon collide and the "The typical bloke" is just a drifter in space with the crack in his arse still showing

Anima and Animus.........

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by andy1033

 

Lol, get rid of females? Like exterminate us?

A world without women......................................i'd rather die. Seriously i can't believe someone would enuinely want this.

Originally posted by lilikans
[men stopped them.

As for Kalisdad, I have to say that its not difficult to see his point, dont understand why nobody is getting it. All he is saying is the women's ability to achieve higher goals has been around for centuries, women just weren't willing to stand up for themselves and those who were, were then considered the "odd ones out". I don't see how it's so far off to believe that the only reason women were allowed the same rights as men is because it means more taxable money for the government.

When it all comes down to it, there is no such thing as a basic HUMAN right, you have to earn it.

thank you Lilikans, I don't feel my point is that hard to understand, but it's easier to argue that equality isn't there, because it isn't.

the fact that women haven't had the 46% of our workforce until the past couple of generations is more to due with the fact that they weren't willing to stand up for themselves, without some piece of paper saying they had the right to... they always had the right to work and equal pay, but at the cost of being the outsider to the 'male' rules.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Really? Because as far as i'm aware the best paying jobs are really not crappy. Bankers, surgeons, company CEO's etc. These seems like pretty decent jobs to me (other than a surgeon having to see people die of course).

Oh.. yeah.... walk in the park, of course.

No pushing yourself through schooling, and competition with all of your potential job rivals...

Nope, These are the easyest jobs in the world.

And you *WOULD* believe that.

Also i would love you to walk up to a farm labourer and tell him/her that crappy jobs pay more money.

So, would you say that a waiter makes more than a farmer?

Maybe owning ones own land and equippment is compensation for their hard work...

Do you know how to argue?

OR is this all just Emotions?

Everyone should have a say in how society is built because everyone is a part of society. If you start picking and choosing which groups can and cannot voice their opinions and vote as they wish then you are on a very slippery slope to a dictatorship.

Then why pick and choose which genders should be the ones to defend the nation TO THE DEATH?

You are SCREAMING for equality, EXCEPT where it would inconveinance women.

This is transparent, and childish.

Grow Up.

I said i want women to make the same money if they do the same job. If they don't do the dangerous jobs then they won't get paid for them and so the comparison is pointless. If a woman does 40 hours a week in an office and a man does the same number of hours then they should be paid the same wage.

What if the man has senority?

What if he has been getting steady raises for decades, and she is just a new hire?

What if she requests a schedual that more easily accomidates her lifestyle, and he works the hours that suck (like graveyard shift)

There are *MANY* different factors that influance what individuals are paid...

You seem to think that *ANY* difference is some form of oppression, when in *REALITY* women make less money than men because they are *LESS DRIVEN* and *WORK LESS*


This is NOT a sexist statement... it is a *SCIENTIFIC FACT*

I never said that, you do seem to read into things rather poorly. I said women are less suited to doing physical jobs like serving in the armed forces. However if a women can keep up with the men she should be allowed on the front line. Why would you want to punish a group of people because they are less physically able to defend the nation?

Why would you want to REWARD a group that does not have Equal RESPONSIBILITIES?


Look... im gonna do this thing in Baby Talk so that you will understand it.



Voting is deciding things in Government!

Government is the collective effort of the people to improve all.

The primary purpose of a Government, is for mutual Defense... we pay money to one central place, and we pool our resources for the purpose of training, and arming a military.


Now... here is my question...


Who would listen to your Screams for Equality reguarding Voting in the Government, if our Nation was Invaded, and Overthrown?

Voting implies participation in defense.

Period.


Unless you think that it is fair for one group to be able to VOTE FOR WAR, and have the OTHER group do the fighting and dying FOR them.


This system, of letting Women Vote, without Drafting them, IS SEXIST, and OPPRESSIVE *TO MEN*


You have so far FAILED to see this on REPEATED occasions, and I might even say, deliberately...


Are you *CAPABLE* of understanding what Equal MEANS?

I understand it Edrick, a little better than you do. Forcing women to serve would simply lead to a weakened armed forces because as you have stated and i have agreed, women are less biologically suited to serving the role of a frontline soldier. It could easily be argued that forcing all women to serve could actually endanger more lives due to them being less able for the role.

Exactly.... why then should we treat AS EQUAL, two beings that are DECIDEDLY AND BY DEFINITION *NOT EQUAL*

It's not a strawman Edrick. You hav stated that if you are not required to serve your country then you forfeit the right to vote and have a say. If a disabled adult is not required to serve then should they forfeit their right to vote? This really isn't a strawman Edrick it's a direct application of your argument applied to a different group of adults who are less able to perform the physical role of a member of the armed forces.

TO be EQUAL, then YES, they would be exempt from conscription, and in return they would not be able to participate in the electoral process.

And that WOULD be Equal... because there would be ONE STANDARD, instead of TWO.

Children don't have a say in anything, they can't vote and so your point is invalid.

That *WAS* my point.... and I see now why you are having such difficulty in grasping the fairly obvious...

None of this was a reply to the point you quoted.

Yes, it was... you just did not understand it.

You claim women are inferior and yet the women in this thread seem more able to answer questions directly.

That does not mean that they have been answering questions ACCURATELY.

I never stated that women are inferior... EXCEPT UNDER CERTAIN METRICS....


Women are INFERIOR at physical labor, combat, mathematical ability, and spaicial cognition.

This is not a Generalization, like "All people are Equal!" it is a SPECIFIC argument, that is FACTUALLY ACCURATE, as opposed to your statement of equality, which is just emotional hyperbole.

They are also able to reply without the caps lock on and without posts that are so poorly edited they are a struggle to read.

That's the Shift Key darlin... it's there for EMPHASIS.

I am not saying everyone is equal in regards to their potential, for example i may be more academically superior to you and you may be more physically superior to me.

And how exactly do you get "Equality" out of that?


More emotional hyperbole magically "Redefining" words so that you can use them in an argument and sound like you know what you are talking about?

The equality i am arguing for is simply the rights to vote

The equality that *I* am talking about is simply the RESPONSIBILITY of DEFENDING the "Right" to Vote from those that wish to CONQUER US.

be paid the same for the same amount of work

You have not proven that women are being "Stiffed" when it comes to compensation.

You keep making this claim, and then I Refute your argument... and you just IGNORE it... mainly because my response to your "Pay Gap" fallacy completely CRUSHES your argument, and for some reason you REFUSE to acknowledge this, or even respond to my statements.

We have been dancing in circles on this one, and I have already defeated every single oye of your points... you simply refuse to acknowledge something that hurts your argument.

legal rights and all the basic human rights we hand out in society.

Hand Out?

I thought you said that they were Basic, and Natural rights?

So, which is it?

Women can fight and some choose to fight, others realise they are not suited to the task.

"Wemen can choose to fight" *DOES NOT EQUAL* "men are REQUIRED to fight."


This is a simple statement.

There is NO WAY that you can NOT understand this.

Seriously Edrick why are you so intent on pushing people into a role they are ill equipped to deal with? How would this benefit society in any way at all?

I would ask the same about you... and the feminist movement.

Mandating that a certain percentage of top paying jobs are staffed by women, mandating congressional representation, government jobs, etc, etc, etc...

But not the crappy jobs... and not the military.


You concede that women are ill suited to combat, and that is why they are not there...

But you refuse to acknowledge that maybe the top paying jobs, and government positions should not be MANDATED at a certain percentage of women.

You know... so we can get the BEST POSSIBLE PEOPLE in there.

As opposed to the BEST POSSIBLE WOMEN... which is sexist.


Maybe they are ALL MEN, because MEN ARE BETTER AT THOSE JOBS!

Did you EVER Think of that?

Well thing is Edrick i don't believe in forced service at all so i would fight for a mans right to not serve if he so wishes. Also you obviously haven't been reading the thread because in several posts i have lamented the fact men are discriminated against in child custody and divorce hearings.

That is all well and good... but you are having treouble escaping from your "Imagined Reality", and joining us in the *REAL* Reality.

-Edrick

[edit on 15-6-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by kalisdad


Again, you only feel that way because you are willfully ignorant of the truth of history. Not the broad, "this country did this, in x year" history, but the history of the human condition. This horribly flawed world, full of violence and inequality, is still an improvement over past generations. And it can continue to improve.

We are evolving. Not devolving. Things are getting better, in most ways, and it is our clinging to our past that continues to stymie us, not our potential for change.

Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

be paid the same for the same amount of work



You have not proven that women are being "Stiffed" when it comes to compensation.

You keep making this claim, and then I Refute your argument... and you just IGNORE it... mainly because my response to your "Pay Gap" fallacy completely CRUSHES your argument, and for some reason you REFUSE to acknowledge this, or even respond to my statements.

We have been dancing in circles on this one, and I have already defeated every single oye of your points... you simply refuse to acknowledge something that hurts your argument.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

As for the disparity in pay, i hate to tell you but those figures are badly worked out.
The wage gap is mostly a myth when talking about adult women without children, however
when talking about women with children the wage gap increases as women are more likely to
ave to leave work at a moments notice to look after sick children or because the baby sitter
cancelled or something of that nature.
Are you honestly telling me that people should get equal pay for less work?

what is it, a myth or a wage gap??

the reason the numbers are skewed are because more women work part time than men... HOW IS THAT EQUAL???


the gap is not because they leave work early cause the babysitter called in sick... they CHOOSE to only work part time while the male has a fulltime job... again, how is that equal?
[edit on 15-6-2010 by kalisdad]

[edit on 15-6-2010 by kalisdad]

Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Really? Because as far as i'm aware the best paying jobs are really not crappy. Bankers, surgeons, company CEO's etc. These seems like pretty decent jobs to me (other than a surgeon having to see people die of course).

Oh.. yeah.... walk in the park, of course.

No pushing yourself through schooling, and competition with all of your potential job rivals...

Nope, These are the easyest jobs in the world.

And you *WOULD* believe that.

Ok you are shifting the goalposts. We were talking about manual labour, the fact women are less suited to physical jobs and you claimed that the worst jobs pay more. I simply stated that many jobs can be achieved with education and many women get into these jobs, these jobs are not physically demanding and women perform them as well as men.

You always skip around things Edrick to avoid answering properly, or you read things which aren't there and i'm calling you on it because it's getting tiresome.

Originally posted by Edrick

So, would you say that a waiter makes more than a farmer?

Maybe owning ones own land and equippment is compensation for their hard work...

Do you know how to argue?

OR is this all just Emotions?

Did i say the farm labourer owned the land? Nope i didn't but you once again try and shift the goalposts. The point i made was that you said the best paying jobs are crappy, well a farm labourer does a really hard job and gets paid very little. The same goes for fruit pickers. Basically your comment was utterly wrong, you know it was but you're trying to get out of it, again.

Originally posted by Edrick

Then why pick and choose which genders should be the ones to defend the nation TO THE DEATH?

You are SCREAMING for equality, EXCEPT where it would inconveinance women.

This is transparent, and childish.

Grow Up.

Telling me to grow up is a little rich when you continually put words in my mouth. Either you are pureposlly doing this or you are blinded by your opinion and imagine things which are not there. So how about i once again make this clear.

I have at no point supported picking which gender should be forced into service. I don't believe anyone should be forced to serve, man or woman. If service must be made compulsory (lets say a world war) then a simple choice has to be made.

Men are better suited to it than women, we could of course insist women fight as well but this may endanger more lives as they are not generally as able to perform the role. Is that what you want Edrick? A platoon of men may lose 10 men from fighting an enemy, if women are included in that platoon and can't perform the same in battle the platoon might lose 15 men and women.

What is the point in losing more when they could be utilised more effectively in different roles? Did you ever play chess? NKnowing how to use your pieces to their best abilities is the most effective strategy. Woman would be better applied as spies or sabotage units.

Originally posted by Edrick
What if the man has senority?

What if he has been getting steady raises for decades, and she is just a new hire?

What if she requests a schedual that more easily accomidates her lifestyle, and he works the hours that suck (like graveyard shift)

There are *MANY* different factors that influance what individuals are paid...

You seem to think that *ANY* difference is some form of oppression, when in *REALITY* women make less money than men because they are *LESS DRIVEN* and *WORK LESS*


This is NOT a sexist statement... it is a *SCIENTIFIC FACT*

Once again you blatantly are either putting words in my mouth or you can't read and believe this is what i think. How can i make this any clearer?

If a woman does the same amount of work she should get paid the same wage, if she doesn't do the same amount of work then she shoudl get paid less. If the man has seniority then obviously he should get paid more, this is really basic and your failure to understand this is strange at best.

Originally posted by Edrick
Why would you want to REWARD a group that does not have Equal RESPONSIBILITIES?


Look... im gonna do this thing in Baby Talk so that you will understand it.

Yes stick to baby talk because the way you edit your posts is reminiscent of someone just learning to write.

Originally posted by Edrick
Voting is deciding things in Government!

Government is the collective effort of the people to improve all.

The primary purpose of a Government, is for mutual Defense... we pay money to one central place, and we pool our resources for the purpose of training, and arming a military.

Err no sorry that is not the primary purpose of government, it is one arm of government. A government can exist to uphold the rights of an individual, it can exist to provide financial aid to citizens in troble, in can be used to provide healthcare, to provide roads and other infrastructure, to provide a higher standard of education and a number of other things.

It should also be noted that there are some first world countries which do not have a standing army.

Originally posted by Edrick
Now... here is my question...


Who would listen to your Screams for Equality reguarding Voting in the Government, if our Nation was Invaded, and Overthrown?

Voting implies participation in defense.

Period.

Are you from the UK? The UK is my nation and i thought you were american, just checking for clarity.

Hang on voting implies participation in defense? Well i can't defend my country due to ill health so i guess by your logic i shouldn't be voting huh.

Originally posted by Edrick
Unless you think that it is fair for one group to be able to VOTE FOR WAR, and have the OTHER group do the fighting and dying FOR them.


This system, of letting Women Vote, without Drafting them, IS SEXIST, and OPPRESSIVE *TO MEN*


You have so far FAILED to see this on REPEATED occasions, and I might even say, deliberately...


Are you *CAPABLE* of understanding what Equal MEANS?

Again Edrick, i don't believe in a draft so your point is moot i'm afraid. However i put to you the same argument which you seem unable to comprehend, the fact is if women were drafted they would be less effective than men in battle (generally speaking) and so would actually weaken the army. Men are better suited to fighting, women can stay home and man the factories. This isn't sexist it's just the most effective way of using the people, utilizing their skills.

I understand what equal means Edrick, i also understand how to best utilize resources, i understand the idiocy of using a weaker force when a stronger one is available, i understand that doing this could actually hurt my chances of succeeding in the task. You draft women and great they're fighting and dying, but oh you lose the war, damn didn't think it through.

Originally posted by Edrick

Exactly.... shy then should we treat AS EQUAL, two beings that are DECIDEDLY AND BY DEFINITION *NOT EQUAL*

They are not physically equal, but that doesn't mean very much unless we're talking about physical work. Voting is not a really physical thing, it's an intellectual exercise and as women seem perfectly able to understand the process and evaluate the choices involves they are perfectly entitled to vote.

And again we go back to the argument which you call a strawman and fail to answer every time, because you don't have an answer for it, the disabled. A disabled person is less physically equal so should that person not also be allowed to vote?


It is at this point i decided to stop with replying to your post, you edit your posts so very badly they are an absolute chore to go through and it's giving me a headache. If you are able to then please try and format them so they are easier to read. I think you do this intentionally in the hope people will get tired of replying to them in which case you have been successful.

Originally posted by kalisdad
what is it, a myth or a wage gap??

the reason the numbers are skewed are because more women work part time than men... HOW IS THAT EQUAL???


the gap is not because they leave work early cause the babysitter called in sick... they CHOOSE to only work part time while the male has a fulltime job... again, how is that equal?
[edit on 15-6-2010 by kalisdad]

[edit on 15-6-2010 by kalisdad]

They work part time and get paid part time wages, just like a man would, that is very equal. If a woman chooses to work part time that is her right, the man can also choose to work part time and many men do. This all boils down to choice which is equal on both sides.

If they worked part time and got paid for full time work then it would be wrong and unequal, unless he men also got the same treatment.

Originally posted by Seventytwo
Feminists become what they hate...

I say let the world have as much scum as it can handle, and it surely does have alot today.

One day like i say the female gender will be gone, and the human race will be different.

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by Seventytwo
Feminists become what they hate...

I say let the world have as much scum as it can handle, and it surely does have alot today.

One day like i say the female gender will be gone, and the human race will be different.

I would love to know how the female race will be gone, unless we perfect cloning or develop out of body pregnancies we really won't be seeing women on the way out. Oh and if we really did develop these technologies then we would have to kill all women to make sure they didn't use them. Of course no women are then around and the straight men would be getting lonely..............

Yeah i kind of like women, think i'll be on their side when you start the attack.

Originally posted by Edrick
Equality is NOT natural, and If I need to explain this, I am going to get ANGRY.

VERY ANGRY.

Oh, for God's sake! So what? Is that some sort of threat? Do you think I care if you get angry? Get angry, turn red, go nuts. If you weren't so cryptic, perhaps people would understand you better.

Originally posted by Edrick
You seem to think that *ANY* difference is some form of oppression, when in *REALITY* women make less money than men because they are *LESS DRIVEN* and *WORK LESS*

This is NOT a sexist statement... it is a *SCIENTIFIC FACT*

Then you should be able to show the data that proves that.

When men and women's salary are compared, it's done with people of the same experience, same job, same hours per week, etc. In other words, all other aspects are equal. See sources below.

Look... im gonna do this thing in Baby Talk so that you will understand it.

Look. Let me just say that your posts are VERY difficult to weed through and understand. Don't blame the other members for your communication issues. You're the one getting ANGRY! Using lots of CAPS, large type, and generally getting ***EMOTIONAL!!*** Not to mention condescending and sarcastic. I'm not sure why any of us are talking with you to tell you the truth...

Voting implies participation in defense.

BS. The government isn't all about the military and defense.

TO be EQUAL, then YES, they would be exempt from conscription, and in return they would not be able to participate in the electoral process.

Voting isn't just about the military. Your whole argument is military-centric. Voting is a right of ALL US adult citizens, whether they serve on the military or not. Like it or not, that's the way it is and should be.

That's the Shift Key darlin... it's there for EMPHASIS.

Darlin'?

And how exactly do you get "Equality" out of that?

You were asked several pages back about the equation 3+2=7-2. But for some reason, you never responded.

The two sides of the equation are different, but they are equal. THAT'S how we get equality out of that.

More emotional hyperbole magically "Redefining" words so that you can use them in an argument and sound like you know what you are talking about?

It's not redefining at all. You just have a very NARROW definition of the word (absolutely equivalent) and are trying to shout down anyone who would disagree with you.

Equal: like in quality, nature, or status
It CAN mean absolutely equivalent, but doesn't HAVE to. Why are you so completely hung up on the word?

You keep making this claim, and then I Refute your argument... and you just IGNORE it... mainly because my response to your "Pay Gap" fallacy completely CRUSHES your argument, and for some reason you REFUSE to acknowledge this, or even respond to my statements.

Source1

One year out of college, women working full time earn 80 percent of what men earn, according to the study by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation, based in Washington D.C.
...
Even as the study accounted for such factors as the number of hours worked, occupations or parenthood, the gap persisted, researchers said.

The important thing to note is that we're talking about a discrepancy right out of college, when it's less likely that either men or women are parents and neither has significant work experience in their fields. Oh, and it's also in spite of women achieving higher grades...

Source2

"It's a travesty that in this day and age women are making less than 80 cents on a dollar compared to men," Gandy said. "There have been a lot of efforts to explain it away. After controlling for all variables, there is still a significant wage gap that can only be explained by discrimination."

Source3

And as late as the 1980s, the date of the most recent detailed longitudinal study, a gender pay differential of about 12 percent remained unexplained even after adjustments for gender differences in education, labor market experience, broad occupational and industrial distributions, and union status. According to this study, the gender pay gap ratio in 1988 was 72 percent.

The studies that proclaim a gender gap are comparing men and women who have the same experience, same job, skills, etc.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by kalisdad
what is it, a myth or a wage gap??

the reason the numbers are skewed are because more women work part time than men... HOW IS THAT EQUAL???


the gap is not because they leave work early cause the babysitter called in sick... they CHOOSE to only work part time while the male has a fulltime job... again, how is that equal?
[edit on 15-6-2010 by kalisdad]

[edit on 15-6-2010 by kalisdad]

They work part time and get paid part time wages, just like a man would, that is very equal. If a woman chooses to work part time that is her right, the man can also choose to work part time and many men do. This all boils down to choice which is equal on both sides.

If they worked part time and got paid for full time work then it would be wrong and unequal, unless he men also got the same treatment.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!

in a 2 income household, the only reason the woman is ABLE to work part time is because obviously their man is working full time... again, IS THAT EQUAL???

most women only choose to work part time is because of their family... do the men not get that choice?



[edit on 15-6-2010 by kalisdad]

Originally posted by kalisdad
ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!

in a 2 income household, the only reason the woman is ABLE to work part time is because obviously their man is working full time... again, IS THAT EQUAL???

You are aware that many men choose to work because they feel it's their duty, they are not forced to they just like being the bread winner. Some men are house husbands, other men work part time and their wife/partner works full time.

It's equal because the man and woman have each made their choice, the man could choose not to as well. It is the man who puts himself in the position you speak of, he isn't forced to do it.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Yep he is forced to do it for the most part in society.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Yep he is forced to do it for the most part in society.

Really? Someone stands behind him, gun to head saying "do this or die?". It's all nonsense, men don't have to work if they don't want to but most choose to work full time because they like it, or they like being the bread winner. There is still something in some men that if their wife/partner earns more than they do they get all sullen about it.

One of my friends had to go to marriage councilling because her guy hated that she earned more than him (sshe's a doctor he's a nurse). That's all to do with ego.

Originally posted by kalisdad
in a 2 income household, the only reason the woman is ABLE to work part time is because obviously their man is working full time... again, IS THAT EQUAL???

There are plenty of homes where the male doesn't work or works part-time while the woman works full time. And if women got paid the same as the man, I'd bet there would be more.

most women only choose to work part time is because of their family... do the men not get that choice?

Of COURSE men get that choice! If the woman is working full time, the man can work part time. It all depends on what they agree on.

Stay at Home Husbands

Stay at Home dad statistics

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by kalisdad
ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!

in a 2 income household, the only reason the woman is ABLE to work part time is because obviously their man is working full time... again, IS THAT EQUAL???

You are aware that many men choose to work because they feel it's their duty, they are not forced to they just like being the bread winner. Some men are house husbands, other men work part time and their wife/partner works full time.

It's equal because the man and woman have each made their choice, the man could choose not to as well. It is the man who puts himself in the position you speak of, he isn't forced to do it.

that is quite naive and old school sexist

according to you, the man feels an obligation to be the main source of income...

isn't that exactly what we had before the current womens movement? the man working fulltime?? and because of that, the woman is able to just work part time? why the hell shouldnt she get a fulltime job also??

why cant the man be the one to work part time so HE can spend some time with his kids, instead of working fulltime, and coming home exhausted, while the woman works 4 hours a few days a week, and gets to spend quality time with the kids?

that is soooo not equal

Originally posted by kalisdad

that is quite naive and old school sexist

according to you, the man feels an obligation to be the main source of income...

isn't that exactly what we had before the current womens movement? the man working fulltime?? and because of that, the woman is able to just work part time? why the hell shouldnt she get a fulltime job also??

why cant the man be the one to work part time so HE can spend some time with his kids, instead of working fulltime, and coming home exhausted, while the woman works 4 hours a few days a week, and gets to spend quality time with the kids?

that is soooo not equal

I really could just cut and paste my above response but i'll try it differently.

Many men do work part time while their partner works full time, many men don't work at all, spend their days at home looking after the kids, some men don't work while their partner does and they don't even have kids.

So the roles are exactly equal it is just many men choose to work full time, they like being the bread winner. Why you keep arguing asking how the situation is unequal when it is exactly equal is beyond me.

Men can work part time or full time if they choose.

Women can work part time or full time if they choose.

Men decide to work full time more often because they choose to. If the household doesn't need anymore income then the woman can choose to work part time. Equally the man could do the same so if he chooses not to it's his fault he's working full time while his partner isn't.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Ok you are shifting the goalposts. We were talking about manual labour, the fact women are less suited to physical jobs and you claimed that the worst jobs pay more.

I believe that I added more of a list of things that men are better at... such as science, engineering, mathematics, etc, etc, etc...

I simply stated that many jobs can be achieved with education and many women get into these jobs, these jobs are not physically demanding and women perform them as well as men.

Yeah... but who is going to pick up the trash?

Who is going to mine all of the coal to run the power-plants that produce the electricity that you NEED to work your cushy 9-5 telecommunications job?

You always skip around things Edrick to avoid answering properly, or you read things which aren't there and i'm calling you on it because it's getting tiresome.

Look, if you can't be bothered to have a rational debate, then fine... concede the point and be on your way.

You can't just "PRETEND" that you have proven something, just because you are tired of the discussion.

Did i say the farm labourer owned the land? Nope i didn't but you once again try and shift the goalposts.

You do realize that YOU, *BRINGING UP THE FARMERS* Was Shifting the goalpost, right?

I have at no point supported picking which gender should be forced into service. I don't believe anyone should be forced to serve

But you don't care than men ARE CURRENTLY the defenders of this nation, and women are not.

You are perfectly FINE with the status-quo in *THAT* respect... you just want more power and money for women, is all.

Men are better suited to it than women, we could of course insist women fight as well but this may endanger more lives as they are not generally as able to perform the role. Is that what you want Edrick?

Of COURSE NOT!

THAT IS WHAT *YOU* WANT

Every time you scream for Equality between the sexes... you are DEMANDING THAT WOMEN SERVE IN COMBAT SITUATIONS EQUALLY TO MEN.

Men are better suited to it than women, we could of course insist women fight as well but this may endanger more lives as they are not generally as able to perform the role. Is that what you want Edrick? A platoon of men may lose 10 men from fighting an enemy, if women are included in that platoon and can't perform the same in battle the platoon might lose 15 men and women.

What is the point in losing more when they could be utilised more effectively in different roles?

Then they should get back in the Kitchen... because THAT is the most effective Role.

The one that *MOTHER NATURE* Gave you.

Duh.

If a woman does the same amount of work she should get paid the same wage, if she doesn't do the same amount of work then she shoudl get paid less.

Yes... Are you claiming that the disparity in pay is caused by women's choices, or Sexism?

Yes stick to baby talk because the way you edit your posts is reminiscent of someone just learning to write.

I know you are, but What am I?

;P

Err no sorry that is not the primary purpose of government

Err, Yes.. it is.

it is one arm of government.

Government *IS* defense..... Defense is a FACT OF LIFE.

A government can exist to uphold the rights of an individual

You mean Defend the rights of the individual, by applying FORCE to those who would take it away, right?

it can exist to provide financial aid to citizens in troble, in can be used to provide healthcare, to provide roads and other infrastructure, to provide a higher standard of education and a number of other things.

Any number of things... eh?

So, Government should just be this big, all encompassing Mega Institution that takes care of you from cradle to grave?

It should also be noted that there are some first world countries which do not have a standing army.

Yeah... they got any powerful friends who can defend them?

Are you from the UK? The UK is my nation and i thought you were american, just checking for clarity.

Hang on voting implies participation in defense? Well i can't defend my country due to ill health so i guess by your logic i shouldn't be voting huh.

My *HONEST* opinion on voting, is that only Veterans should be allowed to vote, as they have had to SERVE, and thus, have EARNED that right.

(I.E. The worked for the conditions that ALLOW us to make choices, as opposed to being enslaved)

I'm in the USA, btw...

Again Edrick, i don't believe in a draft so your point is moot i'm afraid.

So, that means.... If you don't believe that a draft is a good idea... that means the Draft does not exist?

Does your moral belief, prevent men from being compelled to register for conscription?

MY point is not moot... your rebuttal is.

the fact is if women were drafted they would be less effective than men in battle (generally speaking) and so would actually weaken the army.

Here is MY point...

Someone still has to SERVE.

Women are not suitable for this role... but that DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE EVERYTHING PEACEFUL AND SUPER SAFE WITH RAINBOWS AND KITTENS AND PUPPIES AND LOLLIPOP SUPERNOVAS!!!!!

The world is a HARSH PLACE.

People DIE here... all the time...

And some people KILL others.


Who is going to STOP THEM?

IS IT YOU?


Are the Ladies of the world going to take up arms and prevent third world dictators from steamrolling over peaceful populations in order to expand their control and eventually dominate the world?


ARE YOU GOING TO STOP THEM?


We already KNOW that women are ill suited to the task....

But is it *EQUAL* that this burden should Fall to MEN, and MEN ALONE...


But you still get all of the benefits that come with OUR SACRIFICE.

Men are better suited to fighting, women can stay home and man the factories. This isn't sexist it's just the most effective way of using the people, utilizing their skills.

Get

Back

In

The

Kitchen


Because that is the most effective role for most all women.

-Edrick

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by kalisdad

that is quite naive and old school sexist

according to you, the man feels an obligation to be the main source of income...

isn't that exactly what we had before the current womens movement? the man working fulltime?? and because of that, the woman is able to just work part time? why the hell shouldnt she get a fulltime job also??

why cant the man be the one to work part time so HE can spend some time with his kids, instead of working fulltime, and coming home exhausted, while the woman works 4 hours a few days a week, and gets to spend quality time with the kids?

that is soooo not equal

I really could just cut and paste my above response but i'll try it differently.

Many men do work part time while their partner works full time, many men don't work at all, spend their days at home looking after the kids, some men don't work while their partner does and they don't even have kids.

So the roles are exactly equal it is just many men choose to work full time, they like being the bread winner. Why you keep arguing asking how the situation is unequal when it is exactly equal is beyond me.

Men can work part time or full time if they choose.

Women can work part time or full time if they choose.

Men decide to work full time more often because they choose to. If the household doesn't need anymore income then the woman can choose to work part time. Equally the man could do the same so if he chooses not to it's his fault he's working full time while his partner isn't.

I'm going to call BS on that one...
case in point.

as I said earlier, my wife works fulltime.
I watched her daughter during the day, and worked parttime at night to cover my half of the bills...

I quit my night job when I came home the Thursday before Christmas, to her passed out having a siezure on the floor.

now, despite the fact that for the 1st year of our relationship, I not only covered my half of the bills, but also saved her 40% of her weekly income in childcare costs, everyone, our neighbors, her entire family, and all our friends see it as I am using her. I am the bad guy for not working while she works 9 hours a day. I still watch her daughter daily, and I can't find a day job becausse she can't afford to put her daughter into childcare.

but if it was the other way around, and I worked fulltime while she stay home with my child, it would be completely socially acceptable that I worked while she stayed at home.

there is no equality in this scenario, I know first hand that fact.

I WANT to work, but with the current situation, I am not able to... and because of that, I am looked down apon by EVERYONE.