The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

reply to post by dawnstar

GIANT WALL OF TEXT LIFE STORY

So, you are saying that we should treat every human being as if they are YOU?


Or do you think that we should judge everyone individually?

As if they are (For the Most part).... *NOT* you?

oh, and no one is forced into the service at the present time, at least not in most of the western world.....

THEN WHY ALL THE COMPLAINTS ABOUT BEING OPPRESSED?

or not being able to vote?



-Edrick



[edit on 11-6-2010 by Edrick]

Originally posted by Edrick
Would you be so kind as to point out which part of that study CLEARLY STATES that women make less than men because of discrimination.

As opposed to work habits and ethics.

You've GOT to be kidding!?

Yeah... but how many women in the workforce would rather raise a family, but cant?

How many men would? I'm sorry, but it seems you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

In the UK, 80% of men would rather stay home and raise the kids. I can't image it's all that different in the US. You can't always get what you want.

Would you say that the majority of women would rather work, instead of raising their own children?

The majority would rather stay home. But as I said, there are a lot of men who would rather stay home, too. Personally, I'd rather work than raise children.

Then why are you on a conspiracy site?

Excuse me? What does that have to do with the price of peas in China? Where do you think I should be?

Then we should implement quotas for making sure that all front-line combat positions are equally represented by women.

As well as All of the hazardous jobs, like oil rig operator, and coal miner... those jobs should be 50% Women as well.

I'm not a proponent of big government, so I disagree. I believe in free choice.

reply to post by Edrick


ummm...ya....
whatever......
like I said, not into nit picking tonight, not into playing games much either....
what can I say, while those more highly paid men in the shop where playing with their little 4 by nines and 6 by 18's, I was inflating my hernia...which by the way, if it wasn't for this full time job that helps with the healthcare insurance, I would be plum out of luck of any flipping hope of getting fixed EVER! , well, I was inflating that hernia printing the much bigger banners!

get a flipping grip, the world isn't a fair place, hasn't been, ever!!! men and women have had to work their arses off throughout the ages, just so those "elites" could have their cushy lifestyles.....
but, don't ever tell me that my place is home, tending the dear children, and not working.....by god! if the man in my life isn't meeting the needs...I have every right to take it upon myself to meet those needs...any way I can! and I have every right to expect a fair playing field!!






[edit on 11-6-2010 by dawnstar]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

You've GOT to be kidding!?

No, I'm not.

Prove that this was discrimination, as opposed to a result of women's choices.

Otherwise, do not cite this reference again as PROOF of Oppression of women.

How many men would? I'm sorry, but it seems you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

In the UK, 80% of men would rather stay home and raise the kids. I can't image it's all that different in the US. You can't always get what you want.

You got those statistics for women?

The majority would rather stay home. But as I said, there are a lot of men who would rather stay home, too. Personally, I'd rather work than raise children.

Yeah... it seems that no one has that choice anymore, does it?

Excuse me? What does that have to do with the price of peas in China? Where do you think I should be?

TITLE OF THE THREAD:


The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

'm not a proponent of big government, so I disagree. I believe in free choice.

No, i'm not talking about forcing WOMEN to take those jobs...

I am talking about Employers and the ARMED FORCES to REQUIRE that one half of their members be female.

[snip]

-Edrick



Removed mild personal insult


[edit on 11/6/10 by masqua]

reply to post by dawnstar

get a flipping grip, the world isn't a fair place, hasn't been, ever!!! men and women have had to work their arses off throughout the ages, just so those "elites" could have their cushy lifestyles.....

Then why complain about the oppression of women as SEXIST?

If EVERYONE was oppressed.... then it seems to me, that the oppression was.... indiscriminate.

Hence, NOT SEXIST.

Q.E.D.

but, don't ever tell me that my place is home, tending the dear children, and not working.....by god! if the man in my life isn't meeting the needs...I have every right to take it upon myself to meet those needs...any way I can!

Yes, but is it the RESPONSIBILITY OF MEN to meet those needs FOR YOU?

-Edrick

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Edrick]

ummm. got a son in the navy, I'm gonna have to ask him if half the ship's crew is famale...
I've been on that base, and I've been on his ship...
It didn't seem 50/50 to me!!!
don't think my shop is either, and well, I know it wasn't when I first started working there. it's predominately female I believe....ya know, textile, low pay, female work?? the only reason why we have so many men in there now is because the job market stinks.

Originally posted by Edrick
Otherwise, do not cite this reference again as PROOF of Oppression of women.

I didn't cite it as proof of "oppression". I cited it as proof of gender inequality in pay, since that's what you asked for. You keep moving the goalpost.

You got those statistics for women?

It's less. www.nwlc.org...

TITLE OF THE THREAD:
The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

And? You asked me why I'm on a conspiracy site. I don't understand... Giving me the title of the thread does NOT help me understand your question.

I am talking about Employers and the ARMED FORCES to REQUIRE that one half of their members be female.

You're talking about employers and the armed forces being FORCED to meet quotas. I believe in choice. I don't know how to be any clearer.

But for now, my husband is home from work. It's going on 6 PM and I have a special dinner planned, so I want to get to work on that.

Later.

reply to post by dawnstar

got a son in the navy, I'm gonna have to ask him if half the ship's crew is famale...
I've been on that base, and I've been on his ship...
It didn't seem 50/50 to me!!!

Yeah... I know... it must be discrimination.

Lets FIGHT to get the girls into the Armed Forces!

On the Front Lines!


EQUALITY REVOLUTION NOW!

I know it wasn't when I first started working there. it's predominately female I believe....ya know, textile, low pay, female work?? the only reason why we have so many men in there now is because the job market stinks.

"Female Work"?

Are you saying that only WOMEN can do this work?

That is discriminatory!


-Edrick

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by Edrick

well. let me see.....
if the attitudes of society cause them to create a world where women are handicapped in that area, if the men chose not to, or fail to accept some of the parenting responsibility....
then yes, I would say that they are......
if on the other hand, the women are raised in a society where they have an equal opportunity to learn, to work in a field of their choice and earn as much as their male counterparts, if they aren't straddled with all of the household and childcare responsibilities but rather those responsibilities are shared, then no, both the men and the women should be expected to take care of thier own needs, and well, share equally meeting the needs of their children.


but, then, looking through this thread, there seems to be alot of people posting who think that women should be home raising their kids, and well, those financial matters should be taking second place.....you being one of those people.
so, well, now, you are saying that the men shouldn't have the responsibility to meeting the financial needs of wife and kiddies??
just like gee, if I was complaining about not being able to afford medical care that I need, well, then it would because of MY lack of planning, not working hard enough ect, probably???

pick a side and stick with it george!

and no, what I am saying is that there are certain areas of the economy that have been traditionally labeled as "female work", where the wages were traditionally so low that most men, unless they were really hard up, wouldn't take the job, because well....
THEY HAD FAMILIES TO SUPPORT...
WHEREAS, THE WOMEN ON THE OTHER HAND, HAD HUSBANDS TAKING CARE OF THEM, AND THEIR INCOME WAS SECONDARY!!!
only umm...ya know what, we have some women in that shop that are in their 80's and have been working for well, this company, as well as the company that this company was before it was broken up when the jobs were exported. obviously, their husbands weren't taking care of them too well...since if you ask them, they are working because that social security check isn't enough for them to live on!!

ya, I know, it was poor planning on their part, right???


[edit on 11-6-2010 by dawnstar]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I didn't cite it as proof of "oppression". I cited it as proof of gender inequality in pay, since that's what you asked for. You keep moving the goalpost.

Fair enough.... then why did you bring this up in a discussion of Men's oppression of women?

It's less. www.nwlc.org...

Interesting... thank you...

So, if what I read here is accurate... there are some women who would rather be a stay at home mom, as opposed to a working mom? But for some reason they Can't?

IS that discrimination?

You're talking about employers and the armed forces being FORCED to meet quotas. I believe in choice. I don't know how to be any clearer.

Yes, that is what I am talking about....


I thought we were discussing the Glass Ceiling....?


-Edrick

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

And? You asked me why I'm on a conspiracy site. I don't understand... Giving me the title of the thread does NOT help me understand your question.

You Said:

By definition, "aces are in their places". Don't worry about it.

I replied:

Then why are you on a conspiracy site?

You Responded:

Excuse me? What does that have to do with the price of peas in China? Where do you think I should be?

I responded:

TITLE OF THE THREAD:


The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

IF the Aces are in their places, then why the complaints about wage discrimination?

If the Aces are in their places, then why bother visiting a conspiracy site to discuss what is NOT right with the world?

Seriously...

-Edrick

reply to post by dawnstar

if the attitudes of society cause them to create a world where women are handicapped in that area, if the men chose not to, or fail to accept some of the parenting responsibility....
then yes, I would say that they are......

Then why justify an attitude in society that women have the sole decision in aborting a fetus, or raising a child, if the men do not get a say either way?

And yet he is still LEGALY REQUIRED to pay for the child, despite the fact that She is not forced to Care for it if she chooses not to.

if on the other hand, the women are raised in a society where they have an equal opportunity to learn, to work in a field of their choice and earn as much as their male counterparts

All I am saying, is that if a woman ever starts their own company, that we should tell her who to hire....

As opposed to letting her make her own decisions in the matter.

if they aren't straddled with all of the household and childcare responsibilities but rather those responsibilities are shared

Did you not see about Mel Gibsons Divorce?


She got HALF his money?

For doing a job, that by FEMINIST ADMISSION is only worth $136,000 per year?

if I was complaining about not being able to afford medical care that I need, well, then it would because of MY lack of planning, not working hard enough ect, probably???

I suppose that we should Force other people to pay a doctor to spend his time administering to you then?

and no, what I am saying is that there are certain areas of the economy that have been traditionally labeled as "female work", where the wages were traditionally so low that most men, unless they were really hard up, wouldn't take the job, because well....
THEY HAD FAMILIES TO SUPPORT...
WHEREAS, THE WOMEN ON THE OTHER HAND, HAD HUSBANDS TAKING CARE OF THEM, AND THEIR INCOME WAS SECONDARY!!!

And there have been areas of the economy that have been traditionally labeled as "Man's Work" that was difficult to do, near impossible to comprehend, dangerous in the extreme, and often downright deadly, shortening the average lifespan of men (compared to women) by YEARS.

only umm...ya know what, we have some women in that shop that are in their 80's and have been working for well, this company, as well as the company that this company was before it was broken up when the jobs were exported. obviously, their husbands weren't taking care of them too well...since if you ask them, they are working because that social security check isn't enough for them to live on!!

I suppose that we should tell the government to take money by force from other people who work hard for it, to give to people that did not successfully save for retirement?

-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick
I'll ask my son if he would like more girls on his ship....
got a feeling I know what he's gonna say though.....
NO!! THEY ARE BASICALLY PAIN IN THE NECKS!!

don't know why he says that, but I've he has told me that....
the guys in the military don't want them, neither does the brass.....
after all, it's the pentagon that doesn't want women on the front lines....only, hey, they are on the front lines aren't they?? really, they are...because well, some politician....ain't naming any names here, managed to shuffle things around and well.....our national guard isn't here defending our turf, but rather over there....fighting their war.....
which, really, I don't believe was the original purpose of the national guard!

reply to post by dawnstar

I'll ask my son if he would like more girls on his ship....
got a feeling I know what he's gonna say though.....
NO!! THEY ARE BASICALLY PAIN IN THE NECKS!!

Did you ask him Why he feels this way?

IS there a reason? or is your son just being Sexist?

it's the pentagon that doesn't want women on the front lines

Those mean old oppressive men... protecting you girls from Deadly situations...

How Oppressive.

really, they are...because well, some politician....ain't naming any names here, managed to shuffle things around and well.....our national guard isn't here defending our turf, but rather over there....fighting their war.....
which, really, I don't believe was the original purpose of the national guard!

I agree 1000% percent ( I realize that is more percents than there are... just roll with it

-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick

SAVE WHAT???
according to you, and according to all of society back in these ladies days.....hey, their income was secondary, they had husbands supporting them!!! they didn't need that much money!!!
like I said, take a side and stick with it....
if that is what you believe, that women's income should be secondary to their role as housewife and mother, well, then....
WHO WAS IT THAT FAILED TO PLAN???>

reply to post by Edrick

I think I did ask him why, and well....
if I remember right, they were just too apt to act helpless and wait around for one of the guys to take care of things, or something to that extent......
but then....
you're the one saying that our primary purpose should be to stay home and raise the kiddies, now aren't you....ya know, let the men provide for us, protect us...
so don't blame these girls for doing what your wish them to be doing!!
acting helpless, batting those pretty little eyes, and conning the guys into doing their work!!!

reply to post by dawnstar

according to you, and according to all of society back in these ladies days.....hey, their income was secondary, they had husbands supporting them!!! they didn't need that much money!!!

And I suppose that they had to pay for the house as well, didn't they?

Their income was secondary, because they were being *PROVIDED FOR*

like I said, take a side and stick with it....

Already have, thank you.

if that is what you believe, that women's income should be secondary to their role as housewife and mother, well, then....

Well, that *IS* the most economically advantageous situation... and how society has been structured for Thousands of years.

You don't have to put a roof over your head, and We don't have to hire a housekeeper and nanny.

-Edrick

reply to post by dawnstar

I think I did ask him why, and well....
if I remember right, they were just too apt to act helpless and wait around for one of the guys to take care of things, or something to that extent......

Yup... your son is sexist, isn't he?

you're the one saying that our primary purpose should be to stay home and raise the kiddies, now aren't you...

Well, isn't it what you women are best at? (Generally speaking, of course)

let the men provide for us, protect us...

LET men protect you?

You realize that you are being protected right now by a HUGE army of men and machines... Right?

And all you can see is the One Guy that lives with you?

Really?

so don't blame these girls for doing what your wish them to be doing!!
acting helpless, batting those pretty little eyes, and conning the guys into doing their work!!!

Then why cite women's *LOWER PAY* with cries of *SEXISM*?

-Edrick

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by Edrick


and, many of the women back then were expected to give the money they earned to their husbands......in NY, at one time, it was the law that that money they earned was consdered the husbands....
heck even today, if my husband knows I gave a few cigarettes to someone at work, or a little money to someone who needed it...ummm....I am wasting HIS money....

so who failed to plan???

oh, and by the way, are you aware that they used to send little boys and girls into the coal mines to lay dynamite......
so much for the dangerous work being traditionally "men's work"
damn those bleeding heart liberals and those feminists for getting child labor outlawed!!!

reply to post by Edrick

because....
I am the one rejecting that position, you are the one that seems to be defending it!!!
if you don't like the way the family court system operates, if you don't like the way the military prefers the males....
and all those other inequalities that you are seeing.....
then why on earth are you claiming that the one thing that has caused things to be the way they are is the right way to do things???

ya, I know, the man's head is god, the women's head is man, this is the way it is, this is the way it has always been, and this is the way it will always be....
and besides, it's always nice to have a king and God command the ladies into obedience....then you get everything you want, just the way you want it!

I mean, I am sorry, but it's pretty darned pathetic when men want things their own way so badly, that they invent a God that commands the women to do whatever they say to begin with!!!


[edit on 11-6-2010 by dawnstar]