Israel Was Set Up By Turkey.....

With tensions ramping up between the two former allies and Ed Koch echoing my long held suspicions into whether we have had a 'lynching' against Israel in the making for some time now.

Can ATS posters see any truth to Ed Koch's words?

Has anyone noticed without bias, that their, or other people's perception of Israel has changed in the last 5-10 years dramatically and is this maybe not specifically as a result of the alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity that have been comitted?

Are we looking for a scapegoat?

Do we believe we have found one?

In the Israeli corner, we have the United States government and its 'unconditional' support for the state of much controversy, together they are known for their 'denial' method of propaganda and the justifcation of foreign policy through dubious reasoning.

In the 'other' corner, we have Arabs and Muslims that want to reclaim the land that, in their opinion is rightfully theirs. We have the 'bleeding hearts' campaign that is aimed to pull on the heart strings of humanity, then pull some more as their propaganda method.

Political Correctness has been shown to paralyse Western nation's freedom of speech.

Some say we are increasingly unable to voice our opinion of Arabs/Muslims for fear of inciting racial and cultural hatred and yet the voice of Arabs and Muslims continues to get louder and louder in comparison.

The Western media has become hyper-sensative to this issue and as a consequence, their 'angle' on reporting events has become more favourable towards the cause of the Arabs/Muslims.

Is this effecting our objective judgement?

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." -Zuheir Mohsen, Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) March 1977.

en.wikipedia.org...

Is 'Palestine' a tool?

Are we, in the West, a tool?

I would like to invite my fellow ATS members to discuss this subject with atleast educated responses.


[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

My Daddy used to say something, "Pay back is a bitch." You've gotta hate it when Karma comes bouncing around and delivers you a good dose of what you deserve. That can really hurt.

I can't help but giggle at his surname, he must have got beat up at school Ed Koch lol

Originally posted by intrepid
My Daddy used to say something, "Pay back is a bitch." You've gotta hate it when Karma comes bouncing around and delivers you a good dose of what you deserve. That can really hurt.

Does any of what you said right now have anything to do with the points the OP made?
I would expect a moderator to reply to a thread according to its topic and the discussion it raises, and not use every thread with the words isreal and turkey as a stage for spreading your opinions regardless to the topic at hand.
My daddy used to say something, "Silence is golden".

With all due respect, and hope (although not much expectation) that this thread will take any civilized form,
Eliad.

If this was a set up by Turks , then it was commisioned by US Generals .

imho.

Hey, what goes around comes around ! ; )

If its true,.... Israel more then deserves it!!!

I havn't bothered to watch the video as it's probably the usual pathetic whiny bs we have got used to from that side of the argument.

What I wanted to say is that we are constantly told how inteligent the Israeli's are, mostly by Israeli's I might add. If that is the case then how come they are so easy to set up and be blamed for all manner of *snip* stuff of which they always claim to be totally innocent.


Please don't circumvent the censors.
Thanks

[edit on 8-6-2010 by gallopinghordes]

No, I don't think Palastine is a tool, at least not for the palastinian people- They truly and genuinely deserve a country.

Now if you're talking politics- That's a whole different story.
You see, in regards to gaza, anything you hear out of a politician or a religious leader's mouth probably has nothing to do with what the people really want and need, they are usually driven by some kind of agenda that has only to do with their personal motives, and their supporters. That is why you can find reports of hamas killing its own people for political reasons, like being in the other party, or going against the government. I don't want to elaborate so that I won't stray too far off topic, but suffice to say that during the cast lead operation the hamas murdered more than three times the number of people that the IDF was investigated for..
Now my point is that the people of gaza are being used as a tool on a political level, as opposed to the idea of the country of palatine, which is valid.
Hamas would regularly store explosives in people's houses, they use children and women as human shields, by shooting out of a crowd, they turned a UN school into a mortar center, and then complained that Israel shot it, and hijacking aid supplies and selling them back to the people.
www.ynetnews.com...
www.ynetnews.com...
A new report states that they now refuse to accept the aid supplies from the flotilla by land.. Does it look like they care much? Are they making a stand over the backs of the palastinian people?

On a second front hamas is using the suffering of its people to spread its ideology of hate and terror, as opposed to the government on the west bank, which works along side israel and doesn't call for its destruction, and for that it flourishes. If hamas had been trying to work things out with israel, things would have been different for the people of gaza, instead it perpetuates war in the region with weapons provided by iran, hizballa and other terrorist organizations.

They also use the people in the war for PR very well, by making up stories, beefing up kill counts, and shooting out of buildings with families in them, while not allowing the families to escape, shooting out of schools, near hospitals, etc.
gatesofvienna.blogspot.com...

For example-
This is the report in the news
www.worldsfamousphotos.com...
And this is the truth found out 8 years later
www.news.com.au...

The bottom line is- When you see a kid standing in front of a tank, you tend to get the wrong idea, you don't know that the tank has been sitting there all day doing nothing, that the soldiers have no intention of hurting the kid and is not even aiming at him, that the reporter gave the boy candy so that he would go and "pose" the truth, etc. This sales news, and in turn this increases public opinions against israel, which in turn make it easier to sell this kind of news.

I don't like talking about "radical islam" and all that, because I don't mean to say that islam is the problem.
Let's just say radical people- So, radical people in this world are using palastine to spread their radical views, to establish their control over the middle east, and as always in politics it is never about the little people, it's about the bigger picture, it's about power, it's about ideology, it's about control.

All that being said, I really honestly don't think that Palastine in itself is a tool for anything, it's legitimate, and hopefully one day it will rise (Just not on israel's ashes).

How old is Israel ---- 3 years old ?

BEcause only a 3 year old would be so stupid, so clueless, so immature, so despicable as to try to blame Turkey

You jump aboard someone else's ship and start murdering people, then you must be prepared to face the consequences

We teach our children to accept the consequences of their actions

Parents who do not teach their children that most vital of lessons are negligent and derelict in their duty

So don't whine to me, Israel or Israel-supporters

You make me sick to the stomach with your insanity and whining

Go bury yourselves deep in the ground and shut up

The world has had more than enough of you

reply to post by Eliad


I have to say that was an excellent post, I was educated and enlightened.

I am aware of the contrasting situation in the West Bank, are the people of the world made aware of this?

It only goes to show that there is an existing example of the potential peaceful future of Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip, providing the fundementalists are removed.

I do not see a chance of peace in the Gaza Strip until Hamas are sought out and ousted. However, cut the head of the snake off and it will probably grow back in this case.

I dispair at the situation, for the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the Israelis.

I think there is alot to be said for the words of Zuhair Mohsen. He outlines the 'eternal' strife of the Gaza Strip, as even if the West saw fit to 'Liberate' the Gaza Strip from Hamas, then how do we know that the next government will not have ties to yet another militant fundementalist faction that operate the governance of the Palestinians as a tool against the Israel?


Kind regards, Skellon




[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by Dock9




I created a thread to mainly pose questions, in return all I asked for was educated responses, and you respond with Ad-Hominem.



[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by Skellon


Hey, your thread, you want to off topic, OK by me. Why is it when we talk about peace in the area, it's the Palestinians that have to do all the hard lugging if it's to happen. Another free pass to Israel? That is hardly equitable.

reply to post by Skellon


Great post, star and flag. Yes it was a set up to sway international pressure. again great post except for the profanity from derailers.

reply to post by Dock9


Hey if I warned you to not go into that neighbor hood because of th high rate of crime would you still go? These guy's were warned but they chose to prove their point.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by Loken68]

reply to post by Skellon



You wriggle more than a worm, Skellon

and you have a characteristic that for most, personifies israelis and their supporters: that of ignorant arrogance which presumes the right and capability of trying to 'grade' any comment which does not suit your agenda and one-eyed version of events

Did you believe, when you commenced posting in ATS, that YOU would be the final-word in every discussion about israel ?

Did someone tell you that YOURS is the only worthwhile contribution to ATS ?

Have you been hanging around in forums comprised 99% of people who agree with you ? Is this what gave you such an over-inflated belief in your own importance ?


Please make an effort to understand that ATS is a platform for opinions for thousands, worldwide. Huh ? Do try


And please grasp the concept of 'one poster, one vote' --- instead of imagining YOURS is the 'ultimate opinion'

People don't come here and post in order to gain YOUR seal of approval ... or other. About time you grasped that fact


Now, to return to the thread title, re: Israel being set up by Turkey

It's ludicrous !


It's pathetic !

It's a JOKE !


EXCEPT --- insane israel KILLED between 10 and 15 people several days ago

THEN, insane israel LIED

Israel made a video in which israelis JOKED about the massacre

Israel doctored the facts and presented them as truth

and THEN, israel CONFESSED to doing so, when the world slapped israel around the chops

and NOW, you're trying to blame Turkey for the fact that israel is an insane killer


You may not like the facts

but SO WHAT ?



Israel may not like being exposed as an insane killer and liar

and again, SO WHAT ?


Israel has been exposed --- AGAIN --- before the entire world

as a punk

as a common criminal who lies and tries to cast blame on EVERYONE ELSE

in order to escape punishment



I don't expect you will enjoy hearing the facts

but again

SO WHAT

reply to post by intrepid


Hi intrepid,

I stated quite clearly in my last post, that Hamas was the problem, not the Palestinians.

In the OP, I asked whether the evident sensitivity towards Arabs/Muslims is effecting our judgement.


In addition : With the insults flying around on this thread, you must be busy with warnings I guess?


Kind regards, Skellon.

Originally posted by Loken68
reply to post by Dock9

 

Hey if I warned you to not go into that neighbor hood because of th high rate of crime would you still go? These guy's were warned but they chose to prove their point.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by Loken68]

Let's get real, shall we, Loken ?


THIS next is REAL


Imagine I have red-necked neighbours, just a few houses away

Imagine those red-necks poison my pets --steal my water and money -- beat up my kids --- shoot my in-laws to death and laugh about it

Imagine the red-necks next move into my house --- trash everything I have -- chop down the trees in my garden -- take over my living room

Imagine next that some of my friends decide this has gone too far. They see me and what's left of my family living under a sheet in my own backyard --- while the red-necks move their furniture into my bedrooms and claim to everyone that MY house is THEIR house now ....

Imagine the police have refused to get involved because the Head of Police is a personal buddy of the red-necks who destroyed my life and stole my property ...

Imagine my friends load up their cars with food and medical supplies for me and my family ...

Imagine the red-necks telling my friends --- who live somewhere else entirely --- that they are going to be monstered for trying to help me ...


Imagine that when my friends DO try to get some food and medical supplies to me --- the red-necks MURDER between 10 and 15 of my friends ....


The imagine the red-necks make a song about stealing my house and killing my friends --- and put it on You Tube ...

And imagine the red-necks LYING about the MURDERS they committed and putting their DOCTORED version of events in the world's news ......



Getting things in perspective NOW, Loken ?

reply to post by Dock9

"Did you believe, when you commenced posting in ATS, that YOU would be the final-word in every discussion about israel ?"

Hi Dock9,

With regards to my OP on this thread, if you took the time to read it, you would have seen that it is largely comprised of questions, to which end, I invite educated discussion.

Largely the 'discussion' if you can call it that, has been smart *ss comments or personal attacks by yourself (which is against the T&C of ATS).

Kind regards, Skellon


[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Skellon

 

Hey, your thread, you want to off topic, OK by me. Why is it when we talk about peace in the area, it's the Palestinians that have to do all the hard lugging if it's to happen. Another free pass to Israel? That is hardly equitable.

What??
What are you talking about? Do you even have any idea what goes on in this area?
Let me add to your knowledge on the matter (and excuse me for bringing it in video form)

Go watch, start at 5:08- www.youtube.com...

Listen to what the man says, and please, do try to be more informed in the subjects you're referring to.