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Battle of Britain in Waynos's Europe

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posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 07:25 AM
Following a rather drunk post on ATS in which I claimed that Ireland is located between the UK and France and a beautifully crafted picture by Waynos mimicking my suggestion, Daedlus3 questioned how such a geographical arrangement might have changed the Battle of Britain.

Original Post

Thus I embark on one of my ‘what if the sky was made of custard’ style threads.

What if Europe was three times the distance from the UK?

- What would the Luftwaffe have done to cross the now distant Channel?

- Which aircraft would have been redundant and which ones suddenly useful?

- What would have happened to supposedly ‘neutral’ Ireland now that it was smack bang in the middle of operation Sea Lion?

- How would the RAF respond differently?

- And would Northern Ireland still be so named if it was the South Western most extremity of the UK?

Looking forward to answers to all these questions and more.

I hasten to add this is not a serious thread, but with all the woe in the world today what’s wrong with a little aviation themed geographical revisionist fantasy?


posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 08:11 AM
Interesting postulation!

I think that the He111 would still be a valid bomber, but it would completely lose all fighter escort from the Me109, and Germany would have had to develop the Fw190 much sooner.

The Condor would have been produced in much greater numbers, allowing fior heavier bomb loads overall, and the ability to hit the northern cities.

But I think the largest problem would not have been for Germany, it would have been for the Allies - the invasion of Fortress Europe jsut became significantly harder, with much longer supply lines necessary. I think that as a result, the allied invasion would not have happened - Europe would have fallen into an uneasy stalemate under the control of Germany, and the eastern front with Russia would have been even more problematic for the Russians than it was.

posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 11:05 AM
The Irish Republic who remained neutral throughout WW2 may find their neutrality compromised.

If they threw in their lot with the British then not much differerent and the invasion of Europe would have come from Dublin. If they threw in their lot with Nazi Germany then things may have panned out differently requiring the allies to launch a Sicily-style invasion prior to moving on to the main prize in Europe. Remember here that the Irish Republic was a dominion of Great Britain during the war and also that there were sections of Irish life that was pro-Nazi.

I wonder of the Germans would have just invaded regardless of neutrality (when did that ever worry the Germans)!

If Southern Ireland remained neutral and remained untouched by war then Northern Ireland would have been an interesting place to be as mainland Britain was probably too far for useful air attack in 1940. Even Northern Ireland would be difficult and the targets would have been less important!

Germany may have built a strategic airforce to reach the UK. What about aircraft carriers.

The U-Boat war would have been much different as the UK sitting further in the Atlantic would have not only shortened the distance for convoys to travel, the Atlantic would have been more easily patrolled by air, causing more early grief for the U-boats.

Hope this helps


posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 05:36 PM
Wow Jensy, when I saw my name on the board I couldn't resist having a peek

I am currently wondering (having seen the thread all of two minutes ago) what sort of political shape Ireland would have been in at all. Would they have been neutral?

They wouldn't have just had the English invader to put up with in their preceding history, they'd have had Britain and France fighting over them for a thousand years!

I am going on my own tangent a bit here but........what if William the Bastard had actually made his capital in Ireland in 1066 and ruled from there, and every subsequent King following on, that changes the complexion a bit doesn't it, Ireland as the master and us as the servant perhaps?

Still, thats probably going a bit too far for the purposes of this thread so I'll wind it back a bit. The following is pure 'stream of consciousness, types exactly as it flies through my head. I'll try to make a rational post out of it later, but here's what I'm working with;

Scenario 1 - The UK is as we know it, Ireland serves as a big buffer between Britain and Europe and has been English ruled since Napoleon got his arse kicked. We never bothered getting involved in WW1 so were never seen as a threat by Hitler and vice versa. The Greater German Empire completes its conquest of the European mainland in 1940 and turns to Russia who are beated helped by the fine weather. The Soviet Union is too big and troublesom to rule though so Germany retrenches in 1950 back to the Ukraine and sets it border there. The world of the 50's and 60's has three superpowers, USA, British Empire and Greater Germany, a newly free Russia starts to rebuild, tensions are sky high and a future war looks certain but The Russians andt eh USA, who don't like each other anyway, can't be sure whether the 'Aryan Empires' will join forces or not. No WW2 means no special relationship remember. Fascinating thought.

Scenario 2 - Things develop pretty much how they did and France falls in 1940. Hitler has already shown with Belgium and Holland that neutrality means not a jot.

To Ireland and then England is but two very small hops. Does Ireland throw in its lot with England and defend its southern end as we defended the home counties in 1940, or do they still try to stray out of it?

If the latter I reckon the Germans march straight in with no bother at all and simply use Ireland as the launch platform for the invasion of England to follow.

The RN is severely restricted in the amount of ships it can place in the way and the Luftwaffe can fly its aircraft from Irish airfields. I reckon the BoB would therefore be a much closer run thing, but then the Germans STILL have to use those ridiculous river barges for any invasion so, can it actually work?

scenario 3 Ireland stays neutral but the Brits and Germans go to war, combats end up happening in Irish skies and both combatants are gradually bled as pilots are interned whenever they are shot down. better than drowning though, eh?

Now I've set out my three options I need to go and have a think.

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