Confused about Islam? I am....

A very good friend of mine is constantly telling me that Muslims everywhere are good, law abiding people. Apparently "Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance", also one of my favourite points of debate is how "Islamic countries don't have crime like the UK does"...

This friend is happy to engage in open, and sometimes heated debate with me, and yet, still tells me that becaue the Qu'ran forbids crime of any kind, Muslims simply do not commit crimes.

Whilst I can accept that the Qu'ran forbids crime, I do not for one second believe that every Muslim everywhere is an "angel". Far from it, they are all human beings, and fallible to their own desires, wants, greed, lusts, etc. This is very much as it is with all peoples of the Earth, regardless of skin tone or religion.

However, I do have a number of Muslim friends (I like to keep my horizons broad), all of whom have suggested at one time or other that Muslims are the "most law abiding people on Earth".

Yet I've just heard a report on the Radio, that has me a little "confused". I've managed to find an article related to the report, and the key part is quoted here:

even though under 1% of the 10,300 Muslim prisoners in England and Wales had been convicted of terrorism.

Source...

Just in case you missed that there are 10,300 Muslim prionsers in England and Wales!

Now, lets look at the prison population for England and wales.

The population in custody on 30 April 2010 was 85,500, a rise of 2,200 from a year earlier. The population in prisons was 85,100 (a rise of 2,300 from a year earlier), in Secure Training Centres (STCs) it was 250 and in Secure Children’s Homes (SCHs) it was 160.

Source...

Now this means that we have 10,300 Muslims in a population of 85,500 and that the percentage of Muslim inmates is 12%. (Divide the smaller number by the larger and times by 100).

The Office for National Statistics suggests that at the last census, the Muslim population was just shy of 3% of the total UK population. Source...

Now, given that the numbers do not lie, could it be that Muslims are being persecuted by the UK justice system and disproportionately imprisoned? Could it be that Muslims are not as law abiding as some of them claim?

You decide...


[edit on 8-6-2010 by dampnickers]

Well, first of all, not everyone who is labelled "Muslim" is really one.

Many inherit the label through family and ancestors but have with Islam less in common than a chicken has with nuclear science.

Being a muslim doesn't mean you follow a guy named "Muslim" (like e.g. being Christian) - actually being "muslim" means "submit oneself completely to the will of God".

Now, if one submits to the will of God, it is this same God who ORDERS him e.g. not to kill, not to steal, not to cheat, not to lie, etc. etc.
He also orders him at all times to do good, be just, righteous, and respect the social structure in the place where he lives.

This means he has also to respect secular laws of the state he lives in. And that means he cannot just go around and do tax fraud or whatever.

So, in essence, if there are so many "muslims" in jail, it is highly probable that the majority of them aren't really "muslim" - meaning they aren't really submitting themself completely to the will of God, but it can also mean that a number of them may end up in jail for various reasons - discrimination being one of them.

So, from now on, do not think of "muslim" just as another "Label" - think of it as someone who believes and submits himself COMPLETELY to the will of God.

EDIT: I am happy to answer any question you may have. Inshallah (God willing) I will try to do this to the best of my abilities.

[edit on 6/8/2010 by skajkingdom]

reply to post by dampnickers

However, I do have a number of Muslim friends (I like to keep my horizons broad),

hhhhmmmmmm......

On a more relevant note, I believe there are criminals in all religions, the bible says don't steal or kill but there are lots of nutcase murderers out there who like a good killing spree then go home to their bible. I guess people are unable to follow the words of their holy book to the full but class themselves as a follower anyway.

People are just people I guess.

The point of my post, which seems to have been missed, is that regardless of RELIGION, COLOUR, or WHATEVER, it becomes really easy to attack any particular aspect of someones life, and use it to blow things well out of proportion.

Hopefully that makes things a little clearer.

Also, I have no problem with whatever faith people choose. It's their life, and their choice.

The point of the post is to stimulate debate.

The US has the largest prison population in the world. Both in absolute numbers, and prisoners per 100,000 of population.

America likes to call itself a Christian nation...... So could you draw the conclusion that American Christians are the most lawless and criminally inclined people on the planet ?

Or do you think there may be some other factors involved besides just the declared national religion ?

As previously stated, in a supposed Christian nation, there may be very few actual true Christians, and in a Muslim nation, maybe there are people that do not follow the strict teachings of Mohamed as well as they might.

As a Christan myself, I really do not know.
But the very few Muslims that I know personally are all without exception fine peace loving people.

I'd just like to bring to your attention some articles relating to this in the news today.

Prisoners convert to Islam to win perks and get protection from powerful Muslim gangs

Prisoners are converting to Islam to win benefits and gain the protection of powerful Muslim gangs inside jails, the Chief Inspector of Prisons has warned.

Up to a third of Muslim prisoners adopted the religion while serving their sentence, a new report by inspectors has found.

Inmates say their reasons for converting include the protection of belonging to a gang and perceived material perks offered to Muslims.

Source
Alternative Source

It seems that this could be one of the reasons why there are so many Muslims in prison. Minorities get treated better than majorities in the UK, so prisoners convert to Islam to get better treatment.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by Pixus]

Originally posted by dampnickers
Now this means that we have 10,300 Muslims in a population of 85,500 and that the percentage of Muslim inmates is 12%. (Divide the smaller number by the larger and times by 100).

Now, given that the numbers do not lie, could it be that Muslims are being persecuted by the UK justice system and disproportionately imprisoned? Could it be that Muslims are not as law abiding as some of them claim?

The numbers do not lie, but also do not provide enough information to answer your questions. How many of those 10,300 Muslim individuals identified as Muslim PRIOR TO their incarceration? How many of those 10,300 Muslims converted to Islam once they were incarcerated?

I suggest you take a trip to the Muslim world and see it for yourself.

You will find there is a BIG difference depending on the type of Muslim you refer to.

In Indonesia - thievery and corruption run rampant, often committed by the police themselves.

In UAE, Dubai for example....you can leave $1000 worth of designer shopping outside of the mall bathroom while you go inside, and guaranteed that it will still be there when you return.

While they all follow the Qua-ran, not all of them follow it in the same way, with the same respect.

Oh yes, and in Christian America there is absolutely no crime, no violence, no thievery or corruption, and the police are squeaky clean.
Not only that, Christian Governments are totally honest.

It is only in those evil foreign countries that people steal cheat and lie.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow


But the very few Muslims that I know personally are all without exception fine peace loving people.

WHy don't you work with them and find out how peace loving they really are? I have worked with some and can tell you from experience they could care less if you are not an muslim. They play favorites with their own people and screw the non-believers over. You can help them all you want, but when you want to call your favor back they will simply ignore you. my last job will be the last time I work with a muslim.