Im tired of the UFO skeptics

i]reply to post by -Blackout-

Its a fantasy world that some hillbilly redneck from Tennessee believes and lives in...

why couldn't it be a whitetrash tralierparke redneck from Texas??

Other than that I tend to agree with what you are saying with this thread. Many debunkers really do want to help the believers 'see' the truth, but sometimes they let themselves get in the way. Sometimes they get so adament about the fact that they aren't real or a particular event is fake, hoax, or explanable that they become abnoxiuos or over bearing.

However the same can be siad about the bliever, tring to show or prove what they saw is real.

What would be more frustrating? Telling someone that what they saw wasn't real or trying to tell someone that what you saw was real, only to have them tell you it wasn't or it wasn't what you 'thought' it was.

Would be great if we could all find a place in the middle to meet without offending anyone, but still getting our points across.

Those who believe wil believe and those who don't won't. It is chasing our own tails when we start to care what others believe.

Generally there is a reason why people care what others believe, usually when they are selling something and the more people who agree with them means the more money they make.

Hopefully we can get by that and learn to distinguish between who is truthful and who isn't, without getting at each other throat...

sorry for rambling, it is too late for me and I should be in my trailer, shaped like a UFO, up here in the hills of Tennessee

Originally posted by -Blackout- So it just boils down to what you believe in personally and it comes down to one trying to push their belief onto the other person. Its kind of like believing in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. Either you do, or you dont.

Not really it is all Due process. The extremists use said methods. Somewhere in the middle you will find compromise and common ground more often then you think. This is progress.

And what do we really know? Maybe aliens are not any of the following

1. Extra terrestrial
2. Dimensional travelers
3. Time travelers or us from the future
4. Ghosts or spiritual beings / our dead relatives
5. angels devils ect
6. GOD or Gods / our creators
7. evolved dinosaurs
8. Nazi's
9. indigenous animal of earth undiscovered species
10. artificial intelligence / black program like EBE's

Or any of the theories we have suspected or imagined? Something we have not even began to grasp yet or understand?



[edit on 8-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

reply to post by Violater1

Yes, I agree, the disinfo boys (^), and the debunkers are all here to derail any formulation of credibility.

Because anyone demanding evidence for a claim must be a disinfo agent

As a skeptic I am tired of people being anti-skeptic, they don't seem to understand that without skepticism people would all believe anything their told. Adults would still believe in goblins and Santa Claus and people like Billy Meier would rule the world

I've seen a UFO and I'm still skeptical and who wouldn't be with people making wildly speculative claims about Nibiru, Atlantis, crystals, reptilians, abductions and government cover-ups. There needs to be skepticism to counter-balance the BS that gives UFOs a bad name in most, if not all, scientific circles.

I also find it funny that some hardcore UFO believers won't believe a word the government says, won't even think twice about calling NASA scum, but their gullible enough to swallow down stories about people being probed and UFOs helping assemble the pyramids. They'll reject real science with actual evidence backing it in favor of tabloid speculation and anecdotal second hand stories.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
I use to get annoyed by skeptics but they play a vital role. I use to think the way you do blackout but i have grown and learned and with age and wisdom comes patience and tolerance. Without skeptical and critical thinking we would probably still think UFO's were swamp gas and weather balloons. It is a necessary approach in investigation of anything. Skeptics force you to work harder and come correct. Without skeptics we would probably have Billy Mier having his own religion worldwide and churches in his name. And other false prophets and con artists would benefit from the earnings of the dumb and blind. We would be farther from the truth than ever , as we are still oceans away from the hard truth still. This is what makes us Human in duality in asking questions. there is nothing easy or cut n dry about UFOligy as i have several grey hairs and pulled hair out in pursuit of truth. It is an elusive phenomena and is a very very complicated subject. There is a needle of in a haystack of lies and dis-info and someday we may find it. UFOligy is not for the ignorant , weak willed and selfish.





[edit on 8-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

Kudos, I agree with you!

But there are some purists out there that won't even budge. They are like a brick wall and any word you say will not make them believe even if you have evidence.

Those types truly make me believe their spirit won't evolve past what it already knows.

Kudos, I agree with you!

But there are some purists out there that won't even budge. They are like a brick wall and any word you say will not make them believe even if you have evidence. Those types truly make me believe their spirit won't evolve past what it already knows.

YES and they can not be helped either. Pseudo-intellectual's are someone who pretends to seem smart and they lurk among skeptics just as nutters lurk within UFOligy. I can determine who is and who isn't as i have developed a thick hyde from years of wasted argument. Usually you can break them down to minimizing a legitimate case but they never admit they are wrong. The best i can do, you can do is provide factual information when making a claim. If they choose to ignore it and you press hard facts the other people in the discussion will see the true intent of said pseudo skeptic and help solidify you're point. I have had so many make outlandish claims like they worked at AREA 51 and there was nothing to see there yet... could not provide proof they worked there or could even give you simple answers like Military Rank ect.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

Brass tacks: there are hoaxers out there trying to make us all look like a bunch of morons.

The "skeptics" everyone seems to hate so much keeps the aforementioned from achieving their goal.

We should be thanking "skeptics," not berating their work.


TheAssoc.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by TheAssociate]

However the same can be siad about the bliever, tring to show or prove what they saw is real.

What would be more frustrating? Telling someone that what they saw wasn't real or trying to tell someone that what you saw was real, only to have them tell you it wasn't or it wasn't what you 'thought' it was.

Would be great if we could all find a place in the middle to meet without offending anyone, but still getting our points across.

Good point
Also for a bit oh humor lets say disclosure has happened and it is out ET/UFO etc.. exist then what?.

What would us believers/skeptics do then?.

Only thing that would worry me if there was/is disclosure is how will the planet deal with it eg.. what country/governments will have control over it/them.

Just a personal thought still nice thread sorry for rant.

If we didn't have skeptics we would have you lot believing every chinese lantern and weather balloon is a ufo comming from another planet.

i do believe the best evidence, is military and pilot witnesses accounts, I have yet to see any convincing photographic or video footage. I remain skeptically open minded

reply to post by k3rm1t


If/when disclosure does happen, some of the skeptics/debunkers still probably wouldnt believe it due to having their heads buried in the sand.

Heck, some of them would still be finding ways to debunk it - Even if the truth that Extraterrestrials did exist and are in fact visiting Earth.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr


i do believe the best evidence, is military and pilot witnesses accounts

I agree. I'd also add radar contact to that mix along with multiple eye witnesses seeing the same object and explaining it the same way.

I've always been interested in UFOs. My partner of 20 years is a sceptic. Imagine my glee when he walked up to me in the back garden one sunny afternoon and a UFO appeared across the road, just behind his head. I yelled "UFO" and deliberately left him standing there to watch it while I ran off into the house for a camera. He had to see it.

He walked slowly in the direction of the object, opening the gate and going out the driveway into the front street to have a really good look. It was so close he could have hit it with a rock. Meanwhile I'm rummaging around for my camera, got it switched on and finally went out the front door to take some photos. (crap camera, crap pics).

"You took ages" he says. "I felt like I was watching it for about 10 minutes."
"Did you see the red light underneath?" I asked him. "It was pink" he says. We agreed on pinky-red.

Later on I'm laughing at him, "so, who says UFOs don't exist then? Ahem..?"

His attitude was "Well, so UFOs are real then, who cares?"

Life went back to normal, and he still has no interest in UFOs. He knows what we saw was real, and he doesn't think it was "one of ours" but he really, really doesn't give a damn. He went so far as to make a model of it from the kids' play-doh for me one day, only because I asked him to.

I've asked him on many occasions. "Remember that pinky-red light that flashed on the bottom of the craft?"

"Nope."




[edit on 8-6-2010 by wigit]

reply to post by wigit


Awesome story!

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
If we didn't have skeptics we would have you lot believing every chinese lantern and weather balloon is a ufo comming from another planet.

i do believe the best evidence, is military and pilot witnesses accounts, I have yet to see any convincing photographic or video footage. I remain skeptically open minded

Exactly like the Free press Club , People of prestige and some of our former Astronauts like Gordon Cooper. Clifford Stone and the countless other military brass domestic and abroad. These are the people i pay attention to. I basically stooped watching every UFO youtube video for hoaxes are so abundant and CGI shenaigans.

Ok so the best is military personal,pilots etc.. but even with them and their evidence they provide be it picture,video or a witness statement all credible people why do we still have trouble finding the truth?.
Also what about evidence in paintings and sculptures from Mayans -Renaissance painters etc.. showing strange objects.



[edit on 8-6-2010 by k3rm1t]

I have a picture of a ufo. Perfect disk shaped object far into the sky as it overlooks the huge mountains of Puertorico. It was taken by my cousin in PR, who didnt notice it at the time of taking the pic, and didnt notice it after he had it developed. I begged him for the photograph after me and another cousin spotted it in his pic, i was telling him that someone like me looks for things like this his whole life.

He wouldnt trick me, because he just doesnt care. He ws very "whatever" with it. Anyways, this pic changed my perspective in my life, and i now take ufo subject very seriously.

So... what do i do with it? Its nothing extravagant, its a flying disk shaped object far into the sky that gives the obvious impression that its huge. But i cant help but look at it and not wonder if i should be doing something with it?

reply to post by ammocase


Do you still have the picture if so start a thread I for one would like to see it.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
The skeptic nor the believer can present enough evidence that fully supports either claim to totally persuade the other party.

That is not true at all. While one may not be able to prove something beyond any doubt, they can show through a preponderance of evidence what is or isn't the most likely explanation. Critical thinkers can always be persuaded by such a preponderance of evidence. If your claim were true, we would not reach the consensus that certain cases are hoaxes, such as Billy Meier or Alison Krause, or agree on prosaic explanations in other cases.

Of course, what a skeptic can demonstrate and what a believer can demonstrate are different. A skeptic can demonstrate a case has a prosaic explanation, while at most all a believer can do is demonstrate a case is a true unknown. Our lack of knowledge regarding what does or does not constitute an alien craft hobbles the believer. One can speculate that a true unknown is an alien craft, but ultimately there is no way of knowing (until the proverbial White House landing, that is).

Originally posted by -Blackout-
All I can do is present to you certain cases from the past with reliable witnesses such as high up Military officials etc and radar contact of these craft among other cases where 100s of folks see the same thing.

Being human and human inventions, they are flawed. They can be wrong. Yes, military officers are as subject to human foibles as anyone else. And 100 people can all be mistaken. In the end, without proof, you are making appeals to authority and popularity.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
I'd take the word of a 5-Star Military General over anyone off the street any day

What five-star general's word are you taking on this? There hasn't been a five-star general since World War Two.

Whether or not to take a five-star general's word over a lay person's depends on the claim and the preponderance of evidence supporting their claim.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
Then you can "try" to debunk it using whatever means that you use to debunk such a subject. Mass hallucination? Weather balloons? Some bullcrap project mogul lie? A fallen satellite? Natural weather phenomenon? A human made hoax? Military flares? Top secret military craft?

Each and every one of those are valid, prosaic explanations for any number of UFOs sightings. Why dismiss them simply because you don't like the answer?

Originally posted by -Blackout-
All the debunker/skeptic can do is just say this or that isnt true...

Being that a White House landing has never happened, you have no idea how a skeptic would react. You are just repeating a cliche of a caricature built of believer prejudices, not in keeping with any reality.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
and throw derogatory comments toward the believer...

This entire thread is a derogatory comment about skeptics.

Originally posted by -Blackout- Its why Commercial Airliner Pilots never report what they see when they see these UFOs. They'd be fired or grounded to some office job - I mean, who wants a Pilot that "sees things?" and maybe "hallucinating?"

Pilots do report sightings. Otherwise, we would not have recordings such as this or this, or reports such as this.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
Colonel Philip Corso has one hell of a story to tell about Roswell, if you havent read the book "The Day After Roswell" yet. He waited until he was on his deathbed before he let the proverbial cat out of the bag. But hey, these people are nut-jobs huh?

The Day After Roswell may be more Bill Birnes' hand than Corso, and if some claims are true, more creative writing than autobiography. And one not necessarily have to be nuts to have delusions of grandeur.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
If/when disclosure does happen, some of the skeptics/debunkers still probably wouldnt believe it due to having their heads buried in the sand.

Heck, some of them would still be finding ways to debunk it - Even if the truth that Extraterrestrials did exist and are in fact visiting Earth.

So what? How does that affect you?

OOPS, double post.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Of course, what a skeptic can demonstrate and what a believer can demonstrate are different. A skeptic can demonstrate a case has a prosaic explanation, while at most all a believer can do is demonstrate a case is a true unknown. Our lack of knowledge regarding what does or does not constitute an alien craft hobbles the believer. One can speculate that a true unknown is an alien craft, but ultimately there is no way of knowing (until the proverbial White House landing, that is).

Spot on in all we need each other.