We the people own part of this mess, Our names are in this oil spill

reply to post by muzzleflash


I fully agree with you but it’s a hard sell in getting the individual to take their fair share of responsibility for the collective.

The inclination is to pass the problem and blame along, I did my part, I paid 2.59 a gallon, they should do their part and not have any accidents, because after all I am perfect at everything I do?



It was them who screwed up trying to profit off of delivering me a product I am dependent on and erring in obtaining that product I am dependent on, even though they would never be trying to extract it and make such an error isf I was not dependent on it to create a market and demand for it!



Yet some of us believe we are part of the problem, which is why I sold my car a little over a year ago in favor of a bicycle.

I take canvas bags to the grocery store so I don’t have to take their plastic ones. If I forget I ask for paper bags.

I try to buy beverages in glass containers only, and if I am buying hot prepared meals to either eat them in at the selling/serving establishment or will only take them to go if they have foil and not Styrofoam containers.

I try to run my air-conditioning as little as possible, conserve electric energy usage where ever I can, and do everything I can to try to limit my foot print and the profits of the oil companies.

By the way I save a boat load of money doing some of this stuff which allows me the luxury TO NOT SHOP AT WALMART OR BUY FOREIGN MADE GOODS!

Wake up people, the buck you all keep passing starts in your wallet.


[edit on 7/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I'm sorry but I will take no blame in this disaster I was born into a world where corrupt corporations and governments choose how I live my life and what kind of energy I use. What other choice do I have than to buy fuels from oil or products made from oil? Please let me know because I would do it. Tell me to ride a bike? What if my job is way out of riding a bikes reach? Seriously we were all born into this without a choice and that's the problem. If I had a choice and chose oil over some alternative sure I'll gladly take some blame. But, I didn't have a choice, so I will take no blame. The fact the you are willing to take any blame is outrageous and you should think about this situation a bit more.

reply to post by FearfulButInterested


Do you want to be a product of your environment or do you want your environment to be a product of you.

Change where you work or live, modify your lifestyle to live how you really want to live.

Stop playing the victim of circumstances, and master yourself and then your environment, its very simple to do, once you decide to be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

Nothing you have given by way of an excuse is insurmountable.

All the things standing in your way to acheive what you claim you would like to achieve are overcome very easily the moment you accept you can provide remedies and solutions to them.

Reinventing the world you live in, starts with reinventing yourself.

No one is in fact going to do the for you but you.

Thanks, and good luck.

That Maddow segment was excellent.
Nothing to really argue against on those points.

We will be living with the effects of this for quite some time.
Whether this happens again sometime in the near future is completely up to us.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Do you want to be a product of your environment or do you want your environment to be a product of you.

Change where you work or live, modify your lifestyle to live how you really want to live.

Stop playing the victim of circumstances, and master yourself and then your environment, its very simple to do, once you decide to be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

Nothing you have given by way of an excuse is insurmountable.

Wise words.

- Lee

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Whatever dude, keep you idealism to yourself that's all you are spewing. The odds are insurmountable I alone cannot change the corruption that runs rampant through this world and even if I tried I'd be killed by a guy controlling a remote control airplane with a missile attached.

Edit: I am more than willing to become part of the solution trust me my fellow ATSer. Let's meet and do something about it since it's so easy to drop your life and move somewhere else and change your job and everything else you mentioned. Name a time and place and I'll be there.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by FearfulButInterested]

reply to post by FearfulButInterested


So the what ever I can do please let me know because I would do it, wasn't like sincere dude?

Whatever indeed.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Damn right, here you are being the bright hope of the world yet you dismiss someone because of the word dude. You don't know who I am or anything about me. I am willing to help however I'm not willing to take the blame for serial negligence. Thanks, and if you are willing to do something I'll be right there with you name a time and place. Just because you shop green doesn't mean a damn thing in the big picture you and I both know that so don't think you are better than me because you use paper bags at the grocery store. I don't appreciate you lack of respect either just because you are a "top contributor" doesn't give you the right to look down or talk down to anyone seriously this elitism on this board gets old. It is that kind of elitism that has us in this current sh** hole we call earth in the first place.


[edit on 8-6-2010 by FearfulButInterested]

[edit on 8-6-2010 by FearfulButInterested]

reply to post by FearfulButInterested


It's some great advice, and every little bit helps, and every little bit adds up.

There is no point in being angry at me for being honest with you. You asked an honest questions (I presume) and you got a very honest answer.

Some people aren't prepared for the truth, and it's not about being green, it's about keeping my money out of the pockets of the oil companies.

Guess what it isn't.

There is an old saying "Cut off your nose to spite yourself".

By the way the money I don't give to the oil companies, really is money I get to use on better things, that enhances the quality of my life.

So if you really imagine that has no value?????

I don't know what to tell you.

Once again you have a choice, you can be part of the solution, or part of the problem, crying sure is not going to help you, and praying is not going to do you any good!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You're right and I'm sorry for getting angry with you I should not have, I know what you mean, but, this whole this is frustrating considering the possible ramifications. We are all to blame for the way the industry is and you're right keeping every dime you can out of the oil companies pockets is good. My only point is here this disaster was caused by BP's serial negligence. There are many other competing oil companies who don't even come close to the safety violations that BP has racked up. This specific disaster is not our faults it is the fault of people who allowed it to happen in the first place. Other rigs have operated under the correct safety guidelines and have not blown. That was my only point in my original post.

reply to post by FearfulButInterested


It is assumptive to presume the accident was caused by negligence, at a time, when the International Body is trying to propose sweeping climate control initiatives that would require things like the Cap and Trade legislation pending before congress that would create a carbon emmissions tax to pass.

If you think you are paying a lot for energy now, wait until that goes through. This disaster is going to be used to sell Cap and Trade to the American people and set up a lucrative international exchange in carbon emission credits sold from one nation to another to transfer wealth from one nation to another, with a new central exchange body taking a commission off of the exchange.

I personally don't believe it's an accident.

BP is in fact owned by the same principles that will be running the International Exchange.

The choice is ours whether we want to be dependent on them, and pay, and then be taxed, pay, and then be taxed some more.

We managed to exist for thousands of years without gasoline, so I am pretty sure we still can, I still am.

I can't change the whole world but I can change my own little part of it, and I always am looking for ways to change it for the better.

There is an old saying, the best revenge is living well, and that is the one thing that they don't want us to do, and that is live well.

So if an when you can figure out how to live well in a way that does not enrich them, then yes you have that sweet revenge.

It boils down to this my friend, we can make some hard choices for ourselves, or let them make some much harder choices for us.

Thanks.

[edit on 8/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

This my friend (if I may call you that hehe) is a brilliant post and offers very insightful advice that I will definitely heed and take to heart. My 21st birthday is coming up on the 27th of this month so it is not too late for me to strike back at the hearts of our wannabe slave drivers. I hope one day I can take my sweet revenge as you are doing.

Edit: Also wanted to give you "props" on the thread in your signature I read through it about a week ago and thoroughly enjoyed it however i didn't comment in the thread itself I figured I might as well do it here haha.



[edit on 8-6-2010 by FearfulButInterested]

I agree with you, SG. As jam said, we are partially to blame for who is in office, how we have allowed the government to meld with corporations and our laziness and apathy in doing anything about it.

I will never buy from BP again. Not that that will do any good, but I couldn't, in good conscience.

There is more to petroleum than just cars here. I'm not sure if people know that or not but I thought I would give you the other items that are produced with Oil, not just fuel.

nylon zippers
ballet tights
plastic hangers
pantyhose
permanent press clothing
flip flops/thongs
fake fur
polyester clothing
ball point pens
ink
computer diskettes
computers
copiers
magic markers
telephones
microfilm
cameras
earphones
footballs
knitting needles
tennis racquets
golf balls
baby aspirin
stuffed animals
band aids
Vaseline
rubbing alcohol
Pepto-Bismol
hair coloring
soap
cough syrup
hair spray
lipstick
denture adhesives
trash bags
egg cartons
freezer bags
candles
wax paper
nylon spatulas
Teflon pans
Formica
linoleum
garden hoses
plungers
floor wax
Plexiglas
spray paint
Anti-freeze
balloons
dog toys
flea collars
CDROMs
check book covers
shopping bags
video cassettes
credit cards
dice
watch bands
iPods/MP3 players
Vitamins
Vinyl Records
DVDs

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Do you know what you're saying. Do you know how difficult, no, nearly impossible it would be to not buy anything made by petroleum products? Look around you - plastic is everywhere! And if you buy anything powered by electricity you are still supporting the oil industry because power plants that generate the electricity use fossil fuels to generate that power. If our nation wasn't so darned afraid of nuclear energy then you might have a great suggestion.

Well it's difficult to boycott BP. They make all kinds of junk....aluminum for soda cans is one example.

I hate the fact that I live by a BP gas station, with 3 others right next to it, and still see people lined up at their gas pumps.

But even if you decide to not go there, BP will simply sell the oil to someone else. Either way they will get their money. Someone will always buy the oil.

The craziest thing about all of this is that they are receiving tax subsidies to keep prices down...but it's essentially their profits.

This whole accident really shows that we absolutely have to do something different. I have absolutely no idea how it can be done though....but we have to start somewhere.

Is it our fault? Yes and no. We really have no choice with what our options are. Yes, we can vote in those who say they will do things we want, but the promises are almost always broken.

I really don't know what we are going to do and I hate the fact that we are destroying people's lives because of our enslavement to oil.

One thing is for sure:

WE HAVE TO CHANGE.

reply to post by Southern Guardian



RUBBISH Disinformation !

I am Not to blame or nor am I part of the problem. We the People do not have the type of power you seem to ascribe to us. What the B9ig Boys do, they do behind closed doors in ways where the common Joe doesn't get to vote on the issue.

They do it with the Money Makers and the Law Makers to keep us in the dark so they can further their agenda. Government is way too large and We The People could not have stopped this mess from happening.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Flagged and Starred.

It's about people taking responsibility for everything that happens on this planet.

It's more comfy to depend and rely on higher powers to feed you of the hand and then raise the finger in accusation because while you were being comfortably baby-sitted & distracted -other things were being messed up by the same fatherly hand.
- lol

So, the root of the problem is only thyself; who needs to "grow up" once and for all. And that means having a conscious and responsible existence.

[edit on 8/6/10 by plutoxgirl]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I agree with you, SG. As jam said, we are partially to blame for who is in office, how we have allowed the government to meld with corporations and our laziness and apathy in doing anything about it.

I'm sorry,BH, but we are NOT to blame for who is in office. Tell me one Presidential candidate recently that has NOT kowtowed to big oil, or the corporations in general. Please don't say Obama because he is no different than any of the others. THEY ALL bow to the corporations because that is where they get the money to run for office.
In addition, the primary system in this country is a complete non-starter. About 1% of the people end up "nominating" the eventual candidates, and in most states, independents can't even vote in a primary. Furthermore, the candidates are "pre-chosen" by the political power brokers, and then "SOLD" by the MSM.
In addition, since you freely admitted that you voted for Obama, if "we" are to blame for his election, maybe you should have taken a look at who got him elected, rather than looking at the fact that he was such a "great speaker":

www.opensecrets.org...

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
Time Warner $590,084
Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
Stanford University $586,557
National Amusements Inc $551,683
UBS AG $543,219
Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
IBM Corp $528,822
Columbia University $528,302
Morgan Stanley $514,881
General Electric $499,130
US Government $494,820
Latham & Watkins $493,835