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whan I was a child a man in a trench coat gave me a book while I was playing outside.

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posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 04:47 PM
Don't believe OP at all, so sick of seeing these BS threads on ATS it's getting stupid now.

posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 06:10 PM
Since you have asked if anyone has read it, this is all you need to know about Leviathan and Hobbes. This is chopped from a longer work. There are references, but I left them out for the sake of simplicity.

The Hobbesian universe is defined as being completely filled with matter that is in a state of constant motion, with all human action being a result from the impacts of matter on the human sensory organs. In the Hobbesian universe, the arrow of knowledge goes from the inside out, or rather all knowledge is derived internally from the impacts of that matter on the sensory organs. It is this view that is the groundwork for analyzing the psychology of the individuals who occupy this reality. The objective of this paper is to not only explore the social and political impacts of Hobbes’s psychology of the individual, but to also gauge the validity of his arguments from an objective viewpoint; more specifically, the focus of this analysis will be on Hobbes’s description of the natural state of humans, and how language is both acquired and used from Hobbes’s point of view.

The State of Nature

In describing the two main types of motion, away from and toward, Hobbes deduces that we move toward the things we like (appetites) and away from the things we dislike (aversions). Appetites and aversions are defined as the determiner of all human behavior, and that they are central to human behavior is the idea of self preservation. Hobbes argues that once you strip away civilization and culture, basic human nature is a struggle for self preservation. This view is best summarized by Hobbes himself: “During the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in a condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man. [….] no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all , continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short.” It is through this reasoning and personal observation that Hobbes develops his idea of the ‘state of nature’. He defines this state as an environment without civilization, law, or government where humans are in a ceaseless struggle for self preservation. This struggle ultimately transforms into a fear-induced desire for power. He concludes that the only way to escape this horrid condition and achieve a life of peace, is to create a social contract and give all sovereignty to a single entity (the leviathan).

The real argument is whether or not Hobbes’s ‘state of nature’ is in fact a natural state for humans. Negative critiques of Hobbes’s description of basic human nature are that his scenarios are unrealistic, or that the natural human state is not as Hobbes depicts it. A possible problem with this critique of Hobbes’s ‘state of nature’ is that it is subjective in the sense that the critics are determining what is and is not a natural state of humanity. Essentially, there is no categorical way to determine the true natural state of humans. Evidence from the archaeological record indicates that from approximately 5,000 to 100,000 b.c.e, human civilization could be characterized as loose bands of hunter-gatherers who had no concept of government. This factual history could be argued as unnatural by the critics of Hobbes. However, since he was writing during a period of civil war in England, there is a legitimate argument that his views may have been biased in favor of a more chaotic human nature. It is arguable that the terrible atrocities that people were committing against each other at the time would have certainly influenced Hobbes; thus, what he was experiencing was not the natural state of humans, but rather evidence that when society breaks down, human behavior devolves into an unnatural chaotic state.


The Hobbesian psychology is a very appealing concept to individualists. He paints a fantastic picture of individual interpretation of reality through sensory organs, where sense impressions are unique to the individual. He asserts that language is innate and that humans crave power for self preservation. Even though his assessment of language doesn’t account for the needed social aspect, his theory is still both relevant and intuitive. His analysis of the ‘state of nature’ can be argued in either direction, but its real flaw lies in both the subjectivity and bias created by the time period. It is also hard to ignore that the only escape from the human condition, according to Hobbes, is to give all power over to one sovereign entity. Yet even with the flaws in his arguments, Hobbes’s brilliant reasoning makes complete disagreement an impossibility, and outright accordance an aspiration.

[edit on 6/8/2010 by yadda333]

posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 08:50 PM
reply to post by Theone2000

No offense, but hasnt it ever crossed your mind to read the book yourself? I mean you already have it in your possession, have had it for many many years.....

when I first began to frequent this site, it seemed it was a place for intelligent individuals to gather and exchange ideas, thoughts and opinions. Now it seems its a graveyard for recycled posts and the same online banter that plagues every other site on the web.

I for one have a hard time believing your story ever happened. Nothing personal towards you, because holding anything personal on the internet makes no sense at all. If your story truly is authentic, I find it even more saddening that you wouldnt take the time to explore the mystery yourself.......

posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 11:23 PM
If you received this book after 1992, it could have been the modern novel by Paul Auster:
However, I doubt it was, as I also question whether said book ever existed.

Leviathon is Crown propaganda, and I think the scenario you posted is set up to frame the shadowy figure as either a Freeman, or a government agent.
As you have baited the question "Do you think he was a MNB(sic)?", I guess this imaginary man must have been Black Ops.

Was he trying to recruit you?
For what?

I always get confused when people refer to Ender's Game, one of my favourite pieces of creative writing is Endgame by Samuel Beckett, not to be confused with Thomas Beckett who has nothing to do with the OP at all... or does he?

[edit on 8-6-2010 by myster0]

posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 11:48 PM
Presuming you are on the level -

People do odd things sometimes on a whim.

It is possible the person themselves doesn't know why they gave it to you.

People have given me books, scribbled notes, pieces of religious jewelry, typed manifestos, and probably other things I've forgotten by now.

As a person of some religious bent - the Universe has an odd sense of humour and a great love of a good puzzle.

And again presuming you are the level - apparently the book wasn't for you since you never read it and just passed along its existence to other people who might. Which makes you not the intended subject but just an intermediary.

Or you are a operative, who is introducing a large chunk of useful information construction philosophy into a crowd of oddballs in a manner that you believe will peak their attention. If so, well done. Jolly good play.

Or you are a goofball, who picked Hobbes because it had a cool picture on the book and reminded you of the cartoon.

[edit on 2010/6/8 by Aeons]

posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 12:05 AM
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Theone2000
I was 11 when he gave me the book. I kept the book in my pictures box. Later on finding it trying to figure out what he was trying to tell me. Just tripy, on the inside its said, Donovan, all those who can see are special.

So you lead us to believe you had kept the book, until one of the members asked you for pictures of the inscription…

Originally posted by Theone2000
I don't have pictures of it, cause i threw it away, because it tripped me out to much. Believe me or not I don't care.

Originally posted by Theone2000
It freaked me out. So I threw it away. Now that I'm older and not so freaked out about it and thanks to internet! I have found it and am reading it. You have to understand I was a child I thought he was a stranger and your not suppose to talk to strangers yet alone read a book from one. But maybe it was a gift from someone up high.

…Then your story changed that you tossed it out

Seems conflicting to me, can you explain this please?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 12:06 AM
reply to post by Theone2000

There are many reasons he could have known your name. He could have been a distant relative, the blacksheep of the family. The one mom and dad never told you about.

He could have been a reclusive neighbor who over heard you playing with other children some day in the neighborhood and might have been intriqued by something you had said or done.

He could have been someone passing along a form of chain letter, where you are asked to pass a letter or a book along.

Keep in mind, he didn't say you could see, he was telling you that there was an advantage to seeing.

Eleven is not too young for such a book, I read much headier ones at a much earlier age than that.

He may have even seen you with a book in a library, or been a friend of a teacher at school, or family member that knew you had an interest in books, or politics and thought you might benefit from it.

There are lots of rational explanations.

If you were extremely 'gifted' as perhaps you fear, suspect, hope, or would like to be, and part of some greater universal plan, in fact you would need no book, but would have already been in posession of such inherent wisdom or the perspectives to acquire it in quick course on your own.

All is well, all will be well.

posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:56 AM
I guess he picked the wrong Donovan....

Looking at your grammar and the fact you got married at 18 plus supposedly trowing away a book......and your little talks with gov-agents....

Don't get me wrong but in Europe you would be considered stupid or a religious freak for getting married at 18 the rest isn't much better I guess.

Not too late to change though, logically you will have to buy the book find your name and apply the same encryption to find the next boy in line to give the book.

posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:53 PM
Iv heard of this book from somewhere before, from what I skimmed of it its pretty much same old same old. It must of impressed Mr trenchcoat as much as wearing a cool trenchcoat impresses a little kid. Maiby one day ill read it if it gets more interesting but ya its propaganda, but as long as its interesting ill read it and it makes some good points. I really don't see why your so enamored with it though. Enders game is better and it has aliens trying to take over the world in it I would read that first before Leviathan.

posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:07 PM
Perhaps you have been programmed and this man was your handler saying goodbye. The book could be a clue about your progamming.

Get some hypnosis and see what you can find.

posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:14 PM
maybe he wanted to touch you

posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 07:45 PM
I thought of this from when I was a kid

posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 12:14 AM

posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 12:46 AM
I think Part IV: Of the Kingdom of Darkness is maybe what he was trying to steer you towards. Read the wikipedia on Part IV: Of the Kingdom of Darkness.

posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:30 AM
Oh, for heaven's sake.

It's Leviathan, one of the key works of the Western philosophical tradition. It's mostly political philosophy, but it contains a lot of other stuff, too. It has been read, studied and commented upon by hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of educated readers since it was published in 1651. It never, as far as I can tell, goes out of print.

I guess the man 'dressed like a government agent'
was some local citizen who'd seen some imaginative or intellectual potential in the OP and wanted to help him cultivate it.

Judging by this thread, he may have been wrong about the potential.

posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 04:51 AM
you thought the book was to "freaky" to read? seriously?

Typing in that one sentence in google, 'people who can see are special', it led me right to your myspace page...

reading that, I wonder why you think the book is freaky.... not much seems freaky to you.

maybe you wrote that message to yourself?

posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 05:17 AM
If you're asking the significance of a book given to you all those years ago after never having bothered to read it... I can't help but feel that the old guy gave it to the wrong kid...

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