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Why should I subsidize your religion? Tax the Churches!

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posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by monkcaw
 


Culture changes.

Back in the day I am sure everyone was for it because religion played a much larger part of society.

Today - not nearly as much.

I am all for religious freedom but I am also for my own freedom, yet I get taxed for those...




posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 



Churches and their properties use public services (roads, water, electric, sewage) that our property taxes pay for.

Oddly enough, churches pay for their usage of those services!



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by octotom
 


Not in the form of taxes, that's the point!



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Legally, if the IRS says it's a "church" it does.
I'm asking the christians how they feel about that.


OldDragger,

501c corporate status for tax exemptions is a status granted by government. A government created creature. It is not separation of church and state and puts the government in the position of being a liar and deceiver.
A corporate status is created by the state.

In like manner...civil rights are rights granted and recognized by the state...they are not inalienable rights. Two different things.

We are about to move quickly into civil rights whereas inalienable rights will be ignored for political expediency.

Same thing with corporate status.

The IRS has nothing to do with these churches which do not have 501c corporate status and cannot audit or control them by the audit procedure as they have done to other churches with this corporate status.

If the IRS can audit them they can control what they teach and preach..and you are back again to non separation of church and state.
It is that simple.

Churches should be tax immune..not tax exempt. This would be separation of church and state.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 


They still pay for using them though. The person that I quoted was trying to make it seem that churches just have these services handed to them on a silver platter.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by octotom
 


They pay a user fee. Generally civil works are paid for by taxes or bond issues.
The point is still, why are they tax exempt?



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


Sorry but you are being so contradictory it's making my temples pulsate.

So you claim to be a libertarian yet you want more government regulation and more taxes.

I am debating the issue and am trying to point the broad impact at hand. In this case it's the churches. But expand that to anything. 'Sin taxes.' 'Non profit.' 'Carbon tax.' And all these other new tax proposals under discussion.

My focus is that it's none of the government's business. Also, the government could tax such institutions out of viability.

In this instance in this specific topic it is churches. But my stance is the same concerning all of it. No more new taxes or tax increases until the government can get THEIR self together. Change the title of this thread to 'Tax Purple Clothing!' and my feelings would be the same.

It's not 'religious defensiveness.' It's exhaustion with more taxes.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 



why are they tax exempt?

Churches often do work in communities that others don't do; soup kitchens, pantries, working with the poor and homeless, and so forth. Churches usually aren't very large and don't operate with a lot of money on hand, yet, they still do various works that are for the general benefit of the community; that may not get done if the church wasn't there. So, to encourage churches, and to free up money so that these works can be done, they're taxed exempt.

In many cases, if the churches were taxed, they wouldn't be able to operate and the doors would close.

The tax-exemption has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the plus to the community that churches can bring.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by octotom
 


Why would the churches you are refering to not qualify as non profits?
Is your criteria "they are doing good"?
Then why couldn't any organization make the same claim, why are churches different? What about a church that owns 50,000 acres of prime land and pays no property tax? Do we just assume the land is for "doing good"?



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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I am no economist, but I believe this is not about churches at all, but about how the tax system is set up. Donations are usualy not taxed, and it is irrelevant if the donation goes to church or homeless guy on the street.

But if a church sells something, then this income should be taxed, of course.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Fine. I happen to agree with most of what you said. But, the reality is those taxes exist, and are paid by everyone else. The point is, why give churches an exemption, simply because they are churches?
As long as everyone else pays, they should pay too!



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:59 PM
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Just for clarity, here's some highlights from the the IRS publication Tax guide for Churches and Religious Organizations




Automatic Exemption for Churches Churches that meet the requirements of IRC section 501(c)(3) are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of tax-exempt status from the IRS. Although there is no requirement to do so, many churches seek recognition of tax-exempt status from the IRS because such recognition assures church leaders, members, and contributors that the church is recognized as exempt and qualifies for related tax benefits. For example, contributors to a church that has been recognized as tax exempt would know that their contributions generally are tax-deductible





Churches and religious organizations, like many other charitable organizations, qualify for exemption from federal income tax under IRC section 501(c)(3) and are generally eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions. To qualify for tax-exempt status, such an organization must meet the following requirements (covered in greater detail throughout this publication):
■ the organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific, or other charitable purposes,
■ net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder,
■ no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation,
■ the organization may not intervene in political campaigns, and
■ the organization’s purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.


Seems pretty fair to me.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Why is the op so vile?

He actually thinks that because he is taxed others should be taxed?

Does he not know that instead of wishing others to be taxed maybe he should fight the taxes that is being put upon him?

That is the equivalent of saying, yes i got robbed but bob didn't he must get robbed like me because it is simply not fair.

Such sick individuals, maybe you need a god because, whatever you are drinking pal has got you brainwashed.


Get well. God bless.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 



Why would the churches you are refering to not qualify as non profits?

Churches are non-profits. In the United States 501(c)s are non-profit organizations. There are 26 types. Each of these are exempt from Federal income taxes. 501(c)(3)s are:

Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations



Is your criteria "they are doing good"?

That's not the criteria for obtaining 501(c)(3) status. But, churches doing benevolent works in communities is the main reason why churches have historically been exempted from income taxes in the United States. (At this point, it should be noted that depending on the community, a church may still have to pay property taxes. The churches where I'm from in Florida, to my knowledge, do have to pay some property taxes.)


Then why couldn't any organization make the same claim, why are churches different?

There are criteria to meet. Any organization is free to apply for 501(c) status if they feel they meet the criteria.


What about a church that owns 50,000 acres of prime land and pays no property tax? Do we just assume the land is for "doing good"?

Some areas do make the church pay property taxes. That is something that varies. But, if you feel that this church isn't meeting the criteria to be a 501(c) you can report them and they will be investigated.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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Not taxing IS NOT A SUBSIDY it is government minding it's own business.To assume that the government not stealing money from the churches is a subsidy is just insane. That would mean all your money is the governments and you only get some of it at thier pleasure and that somehow letting you keep more of it is subsidizing you... Amazing!

An actual subsidy would mean they were paying the churches with your money.

This is illustrative of the messed up mindset of a large portion of this country! Because if some entity is not paying thier supposed fair share of Mafia protection money by god they need to be forced to pay more... Sigh!

[edit on 7-6-2010 by hawkiye]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by TaxpayersUnleashed
 


I'm vile?
Obviously you disagree and have great contempt for those that differ in their opinions. Hardly a reason to be so insulting is it?
There is a principle involved here, but I guess you are too superior to bother with it huh?



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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Taxes are theft.

Right now the government is not stealing from churches.

What the OP is advocating is that the government steal from churches as they do with everyone else.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

RIDICULOUS

We should be demanding the government treat us like churches, not the other way around.


"WAHHHHH WAHHHHH YOU AREN'T STEALING FROM CHURCHES!

I DEMAND YOU LOOT THEM LIKE YOU LOOT ME!

WE ALL MUST BE EQUALLY POOOR!"

This is insane.

The world has gone insane.




[edit on 7-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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Churches donate more money to the poor and needy than any country in the world.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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Out of curiousity...

Along with Religious groups, organizations that "Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition" get tax-exempt status under 501(c)(3), as do organizations that prevent cruelty for animals.

How do those of you that are against churches being tax-exempt feel about this? Why should they be tax-exempt?



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by octotom
Out of curiousity...

Along with Religious groups, organizations that "Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition" get tax-exempt status under 501(c)(3), as do organizations that prevent cruelty for animals.

How do those of you that are against churches being tax-exempt feel about this? Why should they be tax-exempt?


Yeah, how about those tax exempt anti-rights groups? Like the ones that want to ban self-defense.

I wonder how they would feel about those being equally looted.


[edit on 7-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



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