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Why should I subsidize your religion? Tax the Churches!

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posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:42 AM
For all you Christians:
Does the same standard apply to Muslims?

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:42 AM
reply to post by OldDragger


I've seen this kind of post in numerous debates. It is silly and incredibly stupid. The problem with it is that both Believers and non believers are stupid about this. Incredibly stupid.

Churches should be tax immune..not tax exempt. Tax exemption is a status granted by government to the churches. This is not separation of church and state. It is government in bed with churches and churches in bed with government. Astonishing the amount of ignorance the people out here have on this topic.

This is a tax subsidy on the part of government to the churches..a price support. This is not separation of church and is subsidizing the churches. What on earth are you and others thinking here??

This is the churches and government in bed together...and deceiving the public on this. What a bunch of whores..both the government and the churches. Pure Whoredom...and on the backs of the people. Churches and government both are lying and deceiving the public on this.
Want to know why and how the churches are doing so well....because the government is subsidizing them. Once again this is not separation of church and state.

No church should have a tax number. I know of a few churches in this country who do not have tax numbers and do not give out chits to their members for giving. These churches are not doing well financially and are not interested in doing well financially. They are interested in teaching and preaching the Whole Council of God.

Tax immunity is not the same as tax exemption.

Let me summarize this for you. IF the government is subsidizing the Churches and both government and churches are not teaching this view to the public..but keeping it hidden ..not out in the open...than they are both lying to the people about the nature of this thing.

This means that they are both lying and deceiving the public about the nature of both of their they practice it. Not what they feed to the public.
Politics is in fact a religion here in this deception and lie. Very devout in keeping it hidden from most of the public.

What is the name of the religion of politics steeped in such a lie??
Same thing applies to the churches in bed with the government. They too are of the liar and the religion of the liar. They are both practicing the same lie/counterfeit on the backs of the public ...deceiving the very elect by this process.

You see OldDragger..this issue is much larger than what you and others think.


[edit on 7-6-2010 by orangetom1999]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:46 AM

Originally posted by OldDragger

For all you Christians:
Does the same standard apply to Muslims?

Well actually I believe it does.... even Scientologists get it.

2nd line

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:51 AM
I wrote this after seeing Jim Bakker on the PTL club
he was selling "solid pueter" statuettes of David spearing Goliath
when he got to the part:
"and it comes in its' very own GENUINE cardboard box"
well the song sort of wrote itself...
Like Kieth Richards said: You just put your finger in the air like an antenna and write it down as it come in...
could I claim it's divinely inspired?
it came true...
this was about 5 years before their fall from grace...

PTL (Praise the Lord and Pass the Loot)

I saw this pair on TV
praise the lord and pass the Loot
the man was dressd in Nudie Brother's rodeo
snake oil hair and snake skin boots
the woman had jewlery
and a painted face and the longest nails I've ever seen
and they made their living preaching the gospel
from the back of a long black Limosene

Praise the Lord and pass the Loot
Praise the lord and pass the loot
praise the lord and pass the loot
Just mail your old age checks
right here to me

I was hung over one morning
and I had nothing better to do
so I turned into their TV station
just to see what they were up to
cryin crock-o-dile tears I couldn't see what they were cryin for
but, they said: if you don't send us money to be on TV
we won't be here askin for your money no more ( spoken "wtf?!!!" )
(spoken: and they never even mentioned jebus at all)

Praise the Lord and pass the Loot
Praise the lord and pass the loot
praise the lord and pass the loot
LUST mail your old age checks right here to me
(spoken: ooops lil floydian slip there heh heh)

then I do a full speed rant ( as Jim Bakker )
about how

"you'ld think experienced prostitutes should cost more
because of their experience
and the young inexperienced ones should be less expensive
and how come I can't write it of on my taxes
I mean in washington they get them for free and they get bribes too
can you believe that..?.
DANG!...they get paid for doin it
and I gotta pay for doin it
It ant fair ..I tells ya
It aint fair
its like I'm bein descriminated against...
hey! theres a liguor store
pull in there !...pull in there!
Damn! I mean DANG! they got Wild Turkey on sale...
grab a case
yeah yeah ...put it in the card
costs money to get my accountant to file all them receipts
this way I get it all on one easy statement every month
that way Tammy can do the books
screw the accountant
fire him...with real fire...
yeah, hell fire
I think he's walkin off with the silver ware any how
No! you can't buy a bottle of water..
what do ya think I am? made of money
oh man, have you seen Tammy's make up bill?
oh well ...can't stint there...."

Sorry,I didn't mean to offend real faith
the part about the "genuine cardboard box" just set me off...
I get a lot of free beers out of this if nothing else
and points from people who remember I was singing this years before they got busted on tax evasion


hey, Ted Haggard is preachin again!

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Danbones]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:53 AM
reply to post by OldDragger

For all you Christians:
Does the same standard apply to Muslims?

Of course. Non profit atheist organizations as well.

Where have you been? It's not just churches. They're just the ones targeted as being the non-tax drain. Ironically, many of the outspoken organizations in the 'tax the church' movements are a tax exempt atheist organizations.

Go figure.

reply to post by open_eyeballs

My 'non' post. OK, I'm out of this Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:55 AM
reply to post by AshleyD

tax exempt atheist organizations.


If an "athiest" organization is tax exempt, it;s because it's non profit.
NOT the same as being exempt because it's religious.
Where have YOU been? You are missing the point!

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:56 AM
Notice how at the moment in order for the Government to grant tax exemption the Government has to first decide whether a religion counts as an actual religion.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:56 AM
reply to post by Xtrozero

Legally, if the IRS says it's a "church" it does.
I'm asking the christians how they feel about that.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:57 AM
reply to post by monkcaw

im not sure but I think you may be missing the point. Its not an issue of authority. What the op is saying is its unconstitutioal for religious organizations to be treated with preference. They should be treated like all ther 501(c) 3 organizations and subject to the same regulations. I see little to ague with this. Either submit the proper docmentation proving you are not in business for profit or submt the paperwork for an ein and become a busines..or shutdown. if you prove you are not in business for profit (which should be fairly easy as a church) then you have nothing to fear, and can continue to operate as usual.

I think the reason it wont be done is because it is not a popular notion and you would have many people going bat**** over the assumption God is being taxed...even though that would not be the case.

i think it could be a good sloagan for the IRS personally...everyone has to pay taxes...even God...haha

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:59 AM
reply to post by OldDragger

Wrong. OK, I can clearly see your anti religious bias in all this now. At first I was merely suspicious.

There are official atheist churches as well- not kidding. Look it up. You can even be ordained. Also not kidding. And guess what? They are tax exempt.

So I'm going to reverse the question you asked us in an effort to trap us (that ended up blowing up in your face when it turns out we weren't the hypocrites you expected us to be).

So your angle is sticking it to the CHRISTIAN churches but everyone else is simply 'non profit.'

Got it.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:03 PM
"Why should I subsidize your religion?"

Taxing churches would be like stealing from charities to give to bankers.

I'm enraged at this topic.

The very fact this topic exists proves that public education is a failure.

"Subsidizing" religion would be taxing someone else, then handing that money that was just taken at gun point to a church instead of a banker/bureaucrat/crony corporation.

See the difference?

Taxing is theft, subsidizing is dividing up the loot.

The person being taxed is the mark, the person absconding with the loot (the person being subsidized) is the thief.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by mnemeth1]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:08 PM
Sorry for being a post hog but here is where it gets serious:
In all seriousness this has little to do with Jesus
and everything to do with tyranny, control, money and power
and the taking advantage of the weak gullible people by unscruulous people...
I like the wayJesus thunped the money changers...
..Give my control of the money...etc

A Pastor has come forward to blow the whistle on a nationwide FEMA program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.

The FEMA directors told the Pastors that attended that it was their job to help implement FEMA and Homeland Security directives in anticipation of any of these eventualities. The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often taken out of context bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to "obey the government" when martial law is declared.

FEMA training document for pastors (PDF) 33 pages.

It was related to the Pastors that quarantines, martial law and forced relocation were a problem for state authorities when enforcing federal mandates due to the "cowboy mentality" of citizens standing up for their property and second amendment rights as well as farmers defending their crops and livestock from seizure. It was stressed that the Pastors needed to preach subservience to the authorities ahead of time in preparation for the round-ups and to make it clear to the congregation that "this is for their own good."

they threatened to tke away the tax exempt satus of churches that don't comply

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Danbones]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:08 PM
reply to post by OldDragger

By being treated like everyone else do you mean controlled by the government? (joking).

But the relationship between religion and government is special...when they mix terrible and oppressive things happen. Keeping them separate is the only way and that means government has no authority to tax and when churches break laws they answer for them...seems to work okay.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:10 PM
I've read a lot of nonsense in this thread.

If churches should be tax exempt, not one person has given a reason that stands up to logic.

Most politicians are Christians, or some other Abrahamaic belief. I see no Wiccans, Satanists, or atheists in any position of power, so the argument that if they are taxed they'll exert more power than they do now is absurd. Find me a Satanist judge and I'll give you that one.

Someone argued that churches and charities need to pay high salaries to attract top talent for whatever they are doing. That's corporate talk. Since when did God start paying competitive salaries for talent? I thought that doing "God's work" was supposed to be its own reward.

As for them helping their community...define "community". Sending millions overseas to proselytize and build the brand isn't helping any American community, it's helping the corporate church. Even when the money sort of stays in the region, I'd prefer to have a paper trail and some awareness of who was getting how much for what. "Helping" locally but tying the help to either forced participation in prayer or attending indoctrination sessiosn, aka, "Bible studies" isn't exactly unselfish helping either. Any "'help" that is combined with proselytizing really doesn't qualify as charitable in my book.

The icing on the cake though is that the exemption is so blatantly tilted in favor of the Abrahamaic beliefs, and only select versions of them. Let's say Satanists wanted to build a great temple like some of those Mormon monstrosities (architechurally speaking) somewhere highly visible in Atlanta. Acceptable or not? Satanism is a religion/belief system that has a lot of followers, is validated as such by mainstream Christians, is Abramahaic. So why shouldn't they be allowed to worship their particular brand in happy tax-free status, too? Why aren't Satanists allowed their fair shot at proselytizing the young with school groups and their version of "Bible studies"? Logically, they should have the same protections and exemptions as any other. Same with lots of other suppressed faiths.

The tax exemption for churches is discriminatory and an unfair subsidy of a particular variety of faith to the exclusion of others, and is therefore unconstitutional: it violates the establishment clause, in effect being a subsidy for faiths of the Abrahamaic persuasion.

End it.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by apacheman]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:11 PM
reply to post by AshleyD

Huh? Angle?
I can clearly see your bias. I'm simply asking a question here. Your the one making accusations.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:12 PM

Originally posted by OldDragger
Consider that for every tax dollar a religious organization does not pay, you and I pay it on its behalf.

Maybe if the Government doesn't actually spend that dollar and a few trillion like it then none of us need to pay for it....what a concept!

We all start to bicker because we just do not have enough to pay all these taxes, so instead of looking at the source of the problem we want to look for ways to generate more taxes from the people. Be careful what you wish for….

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Xtrozero]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:18 PM
reply to post by AshleyD

so the focus is going to be on whos defending what belief? lame.

argue the points please.

should all churches/ beliefs/ non subject to the same regulations as other npo charitable organzations or should the books remain closed to the communities that feed them?
sems like a straight forward argument...

accountability or no?

i dont think we need the religious banter or just highlights the bias

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:20 PM
Why should I pay for your healthcare, tax the dems.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:26 PM
reply to post by Eagleheart56

Not the subject of this thread.Please don't attempt to derail it.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:27 PM
Agreed OldDragger. Tax 'em! Churches and their properties use public services (roads, water, electric, sewage) that our property taxes pay for. We are indeed subsidizing churches.
Who ever said you have to have a physical building to have religion? I'm pretty sure Jesus never rented a lion's club building to hold services.

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