“All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns”, page 4

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reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:02 PM by Peruvianmonk

reply to post by astrogolf

I did not say Brother that was O'Keefe.

He now holds dual Palestinian/Irish citizenship and he see's people fighting alongside him and see's them as his brothers, it's not really complicated.

No one who crictizies Israeli policy is calling for the destruction of Israel. Who is lobbing missiles who is blowing anyone up? Please, please just look up some facts on the conflict.

I'll go through it again. Since Hamas were elected in 2006, freely and democratically as confirmed by the UN, Israel has imposed a siege on the strip.

Hamas offered to recognise Israel in return for the lifting of the siege shortly after they were elected, this was rejected. From that point on Hamas and other militant groups in the Gaza strip increased their unguided rocket attack on Israel. And Israel retaliated with airstrikes and a tightening of the blockade.

A ceasefire was then agreed between the two sides in the summer of 2009. It was agreed that Hamas would cease their rocket attacks and Israel would lift the siege. Rocket attacks were limited to 2-9 a month and it was pretty clear that is was not Hamas, but groups such as Islamic Jihad who were launching the attacks. So Hamas had lived up to its side of the bargain.

Israel on the other hand did not lift the siege and in fact broke the ceasefire by launching an attack on a Hamas meeting. Leading to an increase in rocket fire from Hamas and the subsequent Israeli 'Operation Cast Lead', which had been planned for months, and led to massive death and destruction in Gaza.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:02 PM by Skellon

reply to post by Asktheanimals

I am aware of that saying Asktheanimals, though it is used out of context in regard to Mr O' Keefe.

Watch all the interviews with him over the last decade.

I respect the guy for his true dedication in what he believes.

I do not, however believe he is impartial or objective.

There are two sides to a story, somewhere in the middle, the REAL TRUTH is commonly found.

My impartial opinion of the propaganda on both sides is that from the last decade particularly, the arab/muslim based media has become proffessional in its campaign of propaganda in comparison to the amateur propaganda by the Israeli government.

Both are guilty of it, although the arab/muslim based theatrics and victim playing has proven frighteningly more effective than Israels' line of 'denial'.

In a decade we have moved from wanting peace in the Middle East and being afraid of suicide bombers to empathising and endorsing martyrdom and calling an 'ally'; Nazis, Murderers, Rapists, Pedophiles and wanting Israel to cease to exist.

Think about it.... Then think about it again.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:02 PM by Flatwoods

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
I can not believe the level of ignorance from some contributors ....

" they should stop strapping bombs to themselves, and stop sending over missiles"

You do understand they are not allowed to have a structured Armed Force like other countries or people. So they can not go to war to fight for their freedom in normal military fashion, their ONLY option is terrorism.

Just like U.S. citizens did against the British for years. Just like the IRA. Just like the resistance in WW2 etc....

The founding Zionist made it perfectly clear their intention was to displace and kill Arabs to gain Israel. They were not shy about it. I would love to know what you guys would do in that situation, just roll over and take it like the French did in WW2 ?

" Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees "

So what you're saying is that strapping bombs to yourself and blowing up civilians is not a war crime, as long as your army is small. Is that what you're saying? I just want to be clear on this.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:04 PM by Peruvianmonk

reply to post by Flatwoods

Hamas has not launched a suicide bomb attack since 2005. 5 years ago.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:04 PM by thedeadtruth

reply to post by Flatwoods

The reason why they did not take that land is WATER. The land is not that good.

They had to pull out of actually occupying the area because it was costing them too many men. A guerrilla war is very expensive in all kinds of ways. It had nothing to do with humanitarian reasons.

Think about it, they had to put 1.5 million people somewhere. Bit too risky to put up gas chambers to exterminate them I suppose. Might be a bit obvious.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:07 PM by Peruvianmonk

reply to post by monkeykillingmonkey

It does look different, but it still basically looks like him to me just in an extremly distressed situation.

The main differences being the beard and abuse to the face.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:09 PM by Hulk Hogan

Israel has and will always harbor terrorism, and yet the united states turns a blind eye to it.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:11 PM by Skellon

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by Flatwoods

"Think about it, they had to put 1.5 million people somewhere. Bit too risky to put up gas chambers to exterminate them I suppose. Might be a bit obvious."

Sorry friend, but I think that statement is slightly 'jumping the gun'.

By this logic, why have the Israeli government not sent Mossad to exact revenge on the German population?

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:11 PM by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Flatwoods

Really? Would you fire a rocket at a housing development, not caring who got hit? Would you do that? Only if your goal was to kill the people that lived there.

Would you go into a cafe with a vest loaded with explosive and kill college students, like Hamas does? Would you board a bus full of schoolchildren and blow them up to, like the Al-Aqsa Maryrs brigade did? And if you did do that, how do you think the people on the other side would respond? Do you think they would just shrug their shoulders and say "that's alright, I understand."? I would think they would drop an atomic bomb on you if you did that. And they'd be justified.

A blockade is the mildest goddamn response I can imagine.

i dunno, it depends on if I had held my 5 year old son as he died in my arms after being shot by an IDF soldier or not.

A blockade is the mildest response? Good thing you havent heard about the Apaches with Hellfire missiles and predator drones and bulldozing far,s and homes and...well you get the picture.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:13 PM by Flatwoods

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by Flatwoods

The reason why they did not take that land is WATER. The land is not that good.

They had to pull out of actually occupying the area because it was costing them too many men. A guerrilla war is very expensive in all kinds of ways. It had nothing to do with humanitarian reasons.

Think about it, they had to put 1.5 million people somewhere. Bit too risky to put up gas chambers to exterminate them I suppose. Might be a bit obvious.

I disagree. The Israeli settlers who built homes there thought it was good land.

The settlers who fought their own soldiers with fists and clubs to stay in their settlements thought it was good land.

They had to be forcibly removed by their own countrymen, because apparently they thought it was pretty good land.

Israel, in the interest of peace, gave it back to the Palestinians. Now the Palestinians chant "death to Israel" and shoot rockets and Israeli homes because they see good land over there too. Wonderful.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:14 PM by orangutang

reply to post by Eagleheart56

o'keefe is a real man.

he and his colleagues could have harmed the israelis in their custody but turned the other cheek and attended to the israeli's wounds.

this is powerful and will not go unnoticed by the soldiers. it will be remembered a long time. it will challenge the way of the butcher thug mentality that the IDF indoctrinates their own with.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:15 PM by Flatwoods

Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by Flatwoods

"Think about it, they had to put 1.5 million people somewhere. Bit too risky to put up gas chambers to exterminate them I suppose. Might be a bit obvious."

That is not my quote.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:15 PM by thedeadtruth

reply to post by Flatwoods

Note: My answer is based on logic, it is not meant to be emotive.

For the Palestinians there are no "civilians" They are all voluntarily living on stolen land ( no-one is forcing them to stay unlike the people of Gaza who are not allowed to leave ) And everyone serves in the IDF. So the whole country is either active military or reservists.

If you want to bring up a family on stolen land, while supporting the drawn out starvation and genocide of it previous occupiers, it has its risks.

Weather those risks are acceptable is the only question.

Remember unlike the Holocaust for the Jewish people, this has happened in most Palestinians lifetime. It is not History or passed down anger. It is raw and ongoing.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:15 PM by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Flatwoods

I disagree. The Israeli settlers who built homes there thought it was good land.

The settlers who fought their own soldiers with fists and clubs to stay in their settlements thought it was good land.

They had to be forcibly removed by their own countrymen, because apparently they thought it was pretty good land.

Israel, in the interest of peace, gave it back to the Palestinians. Now the Palestinians chant "death to Israel" and shoot rockets and Israeli homes because they see good land over there too. Wonderful.

I believe this is called "revisionist history".

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:18 PM by Gakus

So because he is a ex Marine I'm suppose to believe him? How about the hundred or so ex marines committing crimes across our country. Just because you served doesn't make you a saint or a credited source.

They ran a blockade and got what they deserved. Next time HEED THE WARNING MORONS.

The moment a "Peaceful" protester arms them self they are a threat and deserve what they get.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Gakus]

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:18 PM by Dr UAE

reply to post by Peruvianmonk

to me its an honor to star and flag this thread
for i do have a video clip but unfortunately in arabic describing what happened over there and clarifying every single incident but unfortunately in arabic and from a witness who was on that ship and its difficult for me to translate it and post it here , and even if i do so nothing will change.

BIG STAR AND A BIG FLAG

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:18 PM by thedeadtruth

reply to post by Skellon

Because the Germans would fight back.

Better to stamp on a smaller weaker population. No risk of losing then.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:21 PM by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

Originally posted by Masterjaden
Give me a freakin Break, If I ever ran into this former marine, I would call him a big fat lying pussy to his face.

Jaden

Would you be willing to take a beating like that for your convictions? I believe he was willing to die to follow his and bring aid to the people of Gaza.
Since Ken O'keefe is obviously a peaceful person and would not stoop to physical violence over an insult why don't you find another Marine to say that to?

I am a former marine and I say that to marines that are pussies all the time. In fact, just last week I did. I told a marine major who's a chopper fighter pilot that he was a big douchebag and a f'in pussy.

I'm willing to give a beat down for my convictions, and if necessary take one.

Jaden

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:23 PM by Flatwoods

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Flatwoods

Really? Would you fire a rocket at a housing development, not caring who got hit? Would you do that? Only if your goal was to kill the people that lived there.

Would you go into a cafe with a vest loaded with explosive and kill college students, like Hamas does? Would you board a bus full of schoolchildren and blow them up to, like the Al-Aqsa Maryrs brigade did? And if you did do that, how do you think the people on the other side would respond? Do you think they would just shrug their shoulders and say "that's alright, I understand."? I would think they would drop an atomic bomb on you if you did that. And they'd be justified.

A blockade is the mildest goddamn response I can imagine.

i dunno, it depends on if I had held my 5 year old son as he died in my arms after being shot by an IDF soldier or not.

A blockade is the mildest response? Good thing you havent heard about the Apaches with Hellfire missiles and predator drones and bulldozing far,s and homes and...well you get the picture.

Let's face the facts: The Palestinians do what they do because they, and the Arab world, will not let an Jewish state exist in the region. Arabs are racist, as are pretty much everyone in the world outside of the West. In fact, I don't even think there is a term for "racist" in Arabic, or any other language besides English and a few other European languages. The concept hasn't arrived there yet.

No other Arab nation has offered the Palestinians a homeland, because it's really not about them. It's about Israel, and the fact that Israel is not Arab, and is not Muslim. Therefore, they call for the death of Israel. That is why they try to murder Israeli children and babies.

reply posted on 7-6-2010 @ 05:25 PM by Skellon

reply to post by thedeadtruth

You think an intelligence agency cannot covertly overthrow the people of another nation? You think it cannot 'assassinate' people without official accountability?

Do you really?

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Skellon]