Originally posted by virgom129
reply to post by nenothtu
The crucial fact to this whole debate is,
who were the initial aggressors...
If the IDF landed peacfully then the activists had no reason to attack as they did...
If the IDF shot first, before landing, or threw grenades of any kind, then they should have expected resistance.Lets face it,even tear gas will cause
I'm going to try to reconstruct that last post...
Tear gas will cause more than panic, it will cause disability. I was hit with CS once, and spent the next 20 minutes crying, choking, gasping, and
puking. I was in no shape for counter-attack, as I was far more worried about my next breath, and whether or not it was coming.
That situation would have been reversed if I had a gas mask handy at the time. This is why I question the presence of gas masks aboard the Mavi
Marmara in the quantities they appear to have been. It indicates to me a premeditation, that the activists on THAT ship (not necessarily the others)
went into it spoiling for a fight. I say APPEARS, because I don't know what the normal compliment of gas masks and ballistic vests are aboard a
freighter in the Med. It's possible that it's entirely normal, I suppose.
Then there is the fact that handrails were cut down and cut to length ahead of time. As I've said before, that's not a spur of the moment operation
to be accomplished while under the pressure of an assault. That also indicates to me a certain premeditation on the part of the activists.
I'm not even mentioning the slingshots, which until recent activist video surface showing them in use, were alleged to have been planted by the
These are things that, to me, indicate the activists went in spoiling for a fight.
By contrast, the IDF went in with pepper-ball crowd control guns (same category as teargas grenades - nasty, but not life threatening). IDF video
shows the commandos being snatched off of the fast ropes, beaten with pipes, and in one case being thrown over the deck. This would be before THOSE
commandos fired any shots. Firing while sliding done a rope is a tricky business, with pretty poor results. Still no video of any shots fired prior to
Further, the IDF should be aware that Israel has been under close international scrutiny since before Operation Cast Lead. Going in hot and
intentionally initiating a massacre would be met with severe resistance and rebuke internationally. One would think the IDF would be aware of that and
plan accordingly. Bad press is one thing Israel DOESN'T need.
On to the video evidence presented thus far by the activists. While it has been widely CLAIMED this evidence 'proves' IDF went in hot, an actual
viewing doesn't bear that contention out. All of the alleged gunshots I hear on the video are AFTER people have already been shot, and are being
carried into a makeshift infirmary. Only one possible burst indicates any 'machine gun' fire, and it's not at all certain. It's cut off by the
sound of a ship's klaxon (I note, however that it sounds like a pretty high rate of fire - like from a mini-uzi). None of the other 'shots' have
anything approaching a full auto rate of fire, and so if they're shots at all, are likely pistols. Most sound more like sticks being slapped, but be
advised that loud, sharp sounds are often truncated due to overload limiting qualities of most video equipment - so that is by no means conclusive on
Now, logic dictates that if gunshot wounds are present, shots MUST have been fired previously. Why is there no video or audio of such shots prior in
the activist video? What ELSE may have been on that video, which surely must have been filmed, for it to NOT be released?
I can't say that I buy it's "because the IDF confiscated it", since the activists themselves claim that the hour or so of video that HAS been
released by them was uploaded via a redundant satellite link that the IDF didn't get jammed. Thats' what the ACTIVISTS (specifically Ms. Lee) had to
say about it, so where is the rest?
So far, the preponderance of the evidence presented is weighed in favor of the IDF version of the story. If the activists expect to prove their
version of the story, all they have to do is release the rest of the video.
This was not a perfect reconstruction of my post, but it will have to do.