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U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

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posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by signal2noise
 


Read what Smedley Butler had to say before you criticize my regard for his words. I am a staunch supporter of troops. I cannot give away personal information regarding it, but i am sound in my own resolve regarding that. What I am not a supporter of is corrupt politicians. And you should not be either. They are the ones that keep you away from your family and Christmas.

God bless you, and thank you for serving my country. I do appreciate the love you show me, whether you believe me or not.




posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Siddharta
You want to see that virtual person dead or at least hard wounded?


Obviously, you have no sense of humor and missed the pop culture reference to my quote. Oh well, you killed the funny.


Originally posted by Siddharta
Nobody can help you out of this.

You should play World of Warcraft and tell us your scores than.

I hoped, there is some human with intelligence behind that username, I could talk to. Obviously, there is none.


It seems you have zero frame of reference for what is being discussed here and have resorted to personal attacks. I'm quaking in my boots.



Originally posted by Siddharta
Congrats again, since you make your country look stupid - again.


Really? Well, whatever. You're making someone look stupid, and it sure ain't your country.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Nothing ever good has come from leaking classified or sensitive information.

Aldrich Ames? Worked for the CIA, sold info to the Soviets. Lot of sources in the Soviet government were executed because of his actions.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by signal2noise

Obviously, you have no sense of humor and missed the pop culture reference to my quote. Oh well, you killed the funny.


Sorry for killing the joke, but indeed my knowledge of American pop culture is limited.


It seems you have zero frame of reference for what is being discussed here and have resorted to personal attacks. I'm quaking in my boots.


That is always true, when I read about invisible threats to the USA and the call for killing people. For my lack of humour, I read your joke like this.


Well, whatever. You're making someone look stupid, and it sure ain't your country.


Fair enough. So we are even now.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by signal2noise
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Nothing ever good has come from leaking classified or sensitive information.

Aldrich Ames? Worked for the CIA, sold info to the Soviets. Lot of sources in the Soviet government were executed because of his actions.


I want to see what the information is before determining its danger.

Ames was selling nuke secrets. That directly relates to our security. If this guy gave away (if he didn't sell, then it lends credibility to his intentions, at least until we have more info) info regarding troop safety, etc, then that is one thing entirely. But if what he is leaking are illegal actions at high levels within governance, then no matter how bad it is for Americans it is right and needs to happen. Allowing the corruption to continue is just as bad as anything else that could happen.

Even if the end result is WW3. We will have a WW3 regardless. I would rather we fight to make things right, than continue fighting to make things more wrong.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 08:46 AM
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There is an update at wired.

They publish some parts of the chatlogs:


1:45:00 PM) Lamo: what kind of scandal?
(1:45:16 PM) Manning: hundreds of them
(1:45:40 PM) Lamo: like what? I’m genuinely curious about details.
(1:46:01 PM) Manning: i dont know… theres so many… i dont have the original material anymore
(1:46:18 PM) Manning: uhmm… the Holy See and its position on the Vatican sex scandals
(1:46:26 PM) Lamo: play it by ear
(1:46:29 PM) Manning: the broiling one in Germany
(1:47:36 PM) Manning: im sorry, there’s so many… its impossible for any one human to read all quarter-million… and not feel overwhelmed… and possibly desensitized


So this is the big thread for the USA... I would like to know about the broiling in Germany.

The only concrete thing he mentions, is a cable from the US Embassy Rykjavic, which had been published by wikileaks in January.

There is also an interview with Lamo at RiskyBiz. When asked about the dangers, that could come from these cables, it turns out, that Lamo had no idea.
He also is asked about the contradiction, that Lamo donates to Wikileaks and asks others to do so, too, but then reports a leaker.

Here is another contradiction:


(04:45:59 PM) Manning: spies dont post things up for the world to see (04:46:14 PM) Lamo: Why? Wikileaks would be the perfect cover
(04:46:23 PM) Lamo: They post what’s not useful
(04:46:29 PM) Lamo: And keep the rest


Source: Wired.com



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


It's not a straw man - it's on point with what we're talking about but taking the discussion all the way down the rabbit hole.

You say we need the information on our elected leaders to make informed choices...

But what info? Who says which info is ok to release and what's not? When are you satisfied you've gotten enough info?

Who gets the info? How is it disseminated? What if the info has ramifications to other subjects? What if the answer to one question just leads to another that they can't answer without putting lives in danger?

This is where I think you're not doing your due diligence in following the process through it's entire logical life-cycle.

You're stopping where it's convenient and not where the train actually stops.

Example: The atom bomb you brought up. Sure we tell everyone now we have it. But should we have told the public we had it before we used it?

Wouldn't that have impacted our ability to use it correctly? Would anyone even really grasp what it was until they saw it?

Would we also then have a right to know how long it took to build it, what uses we had in mind for it?

I think your argument is looking just as "straw-man" here. You're saying we deserve to have information about what our leaders are doing but then not identifying which information you should have that wouldn't jeopardize the American people. You're saying on one hand that we don't need to reveal state secrets that could have ramifications but then saying you need to know state secrets to make your decisions.

???

You can't have it both ways. Transparency is a great ideal... unfortunately it's a realistic impossibility.

If I'm wrong - please elaborate one instance of information that we know now - that was kept from us - that should have been released. Then show me where the release of that information would not have had ramifications that would have jeopardized the interests of the American people.

* Note: don't bring up criminal activity that was only kept secret by a person/group to keep them out of trouble (i.e. Watergate).



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Siddharta
 


Excellent post. Starred.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by gncnew
 


No. Its not. When you claim that my saying that voting for our representatives is somehow my saying that every citizen should be able to vote on every issue, (pure democracy) you are arguing against a point I did not make.

Which is a straw man.

I dont mind discussing anything with anyone, but I am not going to be manipulated into defending a position I did not take. Anytime you want to argue against MY point, (that we have a right to know the facts about what our representatives do so that we can make good judgments about whom to hire and fire) Im all ears.

If you just want to have a monologue on your own about the evils of "mob rule" you can do that without hitting the "reply" button and confusing the issue.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by gncnew
 


No. Its not. When you claim that my saying that voting for our representatives is somehow my saying that every citizen should be able to vote on every issue, (pure democracy) you are arguing against a point I did not make.

Which is a straw man.

I dont mind discussing anything with anyone, but I am not going to be manipulated into defending a position I did not take. Anytime you want to argue against MY point, (that we have a right to know the facts about what our representatives do so that we can make good judgments about whom to hire and fire) Im all ears.

If you just want to have a monologue on your own about the evils of "mob rule" you can do that without hitting the "reply" button and confusing the issue.


Again -
You say we need the information on our elected leaders to make informed choices...

But what info? Who says which info is ok to release and what's not? When are you satisfied you've gotten enough info?

Who gets the info? How is it disseminated? What if the info has ramifications to other subjects? What if the answer to one question just leads to another that they can't answer without putting lives in danger?



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by gncnew
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


But we can't govern our country by mob rule. True democracy is nothing but anarchy. The more people you allow into the equation the longer and more complicated EVERYTHING becomes.

If we followed true democracy - and informed everyone of all the evidence - so that we could make a collective decision - we'd have already been annexed by Canada or Mexico because we wouldn't even be able to make the simplest of decisions.

We're a Republic. We elect officials to govern in our name. In this system we trust in their judgment and prudence to make sound decision on information and experience.

You have no inherent "right" to information as a citizen of the country. You have no right to know what deals are made in your name.

You gave those up to the congress and President. This is the way our Founding Fathers intended it. Find a single functioning country in the world - throughout history - that has operated in any other fashion?


.


Incorrect.
Govt elected officials are representatives of the will of the people.
Mob rule has no meaning here.
each local govt is within a district that is governed byt state and then ferdal administration.
By utilizing the eleted representatives in each city, district and state, a ferderal REPRESENTATIVE can then express the majority will of the people he/she represents.
That's how this country was set up.
MSM and power hungry politicians brainwashed you into acepting them as political LEADERS who are DECIDERS.
wake up.



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by Bad Ninja
 


Ok - you are aware that I was saying we DON'T govern my mob rule right? And you are aware that we are establishing a trust in our elected officials to DECIDE what the will of the people is on issues they vote on in congress right?

They don't take polls before every vote in congress - and the executive branch doesn't ask the citizenry what they think before making executive decisions.

Bottom line - like it or not - voting for an official is establishing a trust between that person and the public that they will do their best to represent the interests of their constituents by making decisions inline with the will of their voters.

What exactly are you trying to argue with?



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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Talking about contradictions before, here is another one.

On June 10 Patrick Grey said after the interview with Lamo, that he also had told him, that Lamo sent the chatlogs to wikileaks and that they can decide, wether to pubish them or not.

Now wired.com published an email dated June 11, which allegedly is from Assange, who demands to get the chatlogs for the lawyers to defend Manning.

And now they quote Lamo, that he was not willing to share them with those people.

I posted the quotes and sources in the Manhunt-thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by Siddharta
 


Lamo is scum. I cant even say what I hope for him, but where I am from, rats arent thought highly of.

I hope the guys he helped turn on him at some point.

From the transcripts, Manning seems like a genuinely nice guy. Its a damn shame he will most probably be jailed for a very long time. I doubt they will execute him, his "treason" didnt endanger the country. But I could be wrong.

Btw; I dont believe Lamo for a minute when he says he was worried about peoples lives. I think his past behavior, (hacking in and then reporting security leaks) shows a long standing desire to be considered important to important people. He is a suck up. He turned Manning in to aggrandize himself, not to save others.



[edit on 12-6-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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I would say if there was any justice in the world this young man would be commended for his vast amount of courage. imagine the pressure that has been placed in this man to risk everything, even his freedom, in the interest of truth and right. Very few of us ever have to make such an enormous decision in our lives.


If more good people would step forward in the interest of doing the right thing when they see wrongs have been commited, I would say that the world would be a much better place and we wouldn't be in the horrible state the world is in now.

And for the antagonists....Im not saying that the US government is the only one who commits war crimes or does awful things against humanity, but you cant turn a blind eye to evidence that is staring you in the face, regardless of how patriotic you are.

Just because it is OUR government commiting a heinous act and not China or Iran or whomever, does not make it right and does not make it ok. Our reputation as a nation has been dragged through the dirt by criminals who need to stand for their crimes, and maybe the honest actions of one young man can help repair the damage that has been done, and make those responsible accountable for their actions.

Please also remember, when our government sends our fighting men and women into harms way and asking them to do criminal, illegal things in foreign countries, it not only causes the victim to suffer but also demeans and harms our troops who have been placed into that situation.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by BlackOps719]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719


If more good people would step forward in the interest of doing the right thing when they see wrongs have been commited, I would say that the world would be a much better place and we wouldn't be in the horrible state the world is in now.
[edit on 12-6-2010 by BlackOps719]


I will agree with your evaluation, but one must consider how the general population perceives a good will given that they are limited or influenced from methods that have the sole purpose in distorting the facts so as to benefit the whole on a 50 year time scale to say the least.

So out of curiosity, how would you go about informing let alone hoping the public acknowledges what is involved in allowing the majority to live their social life indifferent of the real life dangers involved when one is considered a global player.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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This man if he has done what they are saying he has done os nothing short of an American hero the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time. We need to do all we can to support this hero.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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Cognitive dissonance. I agree with Rockpuck in that this story presents consideration for both sides. While I agree with whistle blowing, Manning could have exposed the very troops he serves with to unknown risks and dangers. For that he is treasonous and should be spared no mercy. On the other hand we all want to know the inner working and secrets of the NWO, world governments and the military. Tough call indeed.

I follow the hacker/cracker culture quite extensively. It is a fascinating world filled with critical thinkers. I have actually had very limited contact with Adrian Lamo a while back. He is an extremely bright and talented individual. Many of the posts here slamming him are poorly expressed. Lamo was in a very difficult situation. He knows full well the ramifications of betting caught up in something as big as this.

Manning is screwed no question bout it. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens to Lamo considering his past. This could make or break Wikileaks.

brill



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 08:35 PM
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Related thread here :www.abovetopsecret.com... , with link to transcript of email dialogue between Manning and Lamo .



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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It's all in this thread already. And it is not an email dialogue at all.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by Siddharta]




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