What would you choose as livestock if the SHTF??

Originally posted by UberL33t
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

So they're going to Survive the Apocalypse? Is this your official prediction Sir?

TPTB have just informed me that I've said too much already!

GULP!

IRM

reply to post by star in a jar


Interesting read, definately makes me second guess my first choice in rabbits, perhaps a few on the side wouldnt hurt though...i wonder too how vegetarians dont seem to suffer this consequence?

~meathead

Excellent thread!!

I'm busy with similar plans. Rabbits still get my first vote, cheap and easy, and i can sell them easily at the nearest informal settlement. Money/goods barter would be priceless, if you have food to share, you'll score in ther ways too.

Chickens are a close second, but they are dirty (smell) and noisy. I'm on a normal size hous stand, ok maybe fairly large, but neighbours are a consideration.

Geese are great if you have a plot, double as security, and you don't have to worry as much to feed them. Pheasants are also great.

With a large piece of land, several goats are a definite!

IN light of many of the UN laws that are going around, wrt the registering of various animals (icluding chickens and rabbits), you may also want to enhance you natural wildlife. If police arrive and "confiscate" all your animals, you'd want as many as possible wild animals to come to your land.

Great thread idea..but..two things come to mind.
1. Any animal you keep must also be fed. This uses up precious resources that could be used to feed yourself.Not only that, but depending on the SHTF scenario, food for anything including livestock might be in limited or non- existent supply.Personally I'll feed my family before I'd feed a bunch of livestock.
2. Keeping ANY animals makes you a target for those who have not had such foresight.
How far are you willing to go to protect a few rabbits in cages? Is it worth your life or the lives of your family should things get really ugly?
Personally..I'd rather be opportunistic. If I can hunt/ snare/ trap..then so be it.
At least there is no anchor of keeping livestock that ties me down from being nomadic..and in a SHTF scenario..you may NEED to be on the move.
Not to burst any bubbles, but should I happen upon any one of your little rabbit farms...I'd help myself.
Be prepared.

Kunekune pigs, sheep, chickens, a few cows and perhaps a bull, mebby some horses would be good too. Deer but fencing is easy to see... Trout ?

reply to post by AccessDenied


i dont think anyone believes that you can have livestock and not provide for them,if you read the entire thread you would see i am talking about 20 acres of land 30 miles south of canada at the end of a mile long dirt road..we know everyone on the mountian, my sister owns an adjoining 17 acre plot.im not worrired about intruders as much as providing a sustainable meat supply. growing vegetables is a must and we intend to feed the livestock with that( although the more i think about it the more im leaning towards goats).this is not a city or suburb scenario obviously.

~meathead

Chickens make my list for sure.

I've owned them before and they are an animal that just keeps on giving.

Firstly they lay eggs, and grow fast.

Secondly you can eat them.

Also they make plenty of chicken manure, which is great for compost and gardening. And they basically feed themselves by scratching around in the soil and eating bugs.

My only gripe with them is they can actually fly a short distance. But that's enough to get over the fence. And trying to catch them when they don't want to be caught is exceedingly hard and very frustrating.

I wouldn't rely on livestock personally.

My reason for this is simple, it's a burden to manage them.
I need to worry about ME and mine, not livestock.

But what about food alexander?!

I'll probably just forage, fish, hunt, and grow.

But If I HAD to choose something to bring, I would probably go with cats.
Because I live in a populated area, so during an event such as this thread describes, I probably wouldn't want to attract attention, so cats are very quiet. Chickens, goats, ect are to noisy for my area.

But then again, I know nothing of the nutritional value of cat meat, and could potentially screw my plan up pretty bad.
Like if I decided to bring wabbits.

reply to post by Alexander the Great


I've heard cats can be a good source of vitamin C.

I've never actually read or seen a recipe for a cat mind you. But I'm sure they'd be very similar to a chicken in taste. Most things are.

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
reply to post by AccessDenied

 

i dont think anyone believes that you can have livestock and not provide for them,if you read the entire thread you would see i am talking about 20 acres of land 30 miles south of canada at the end of a mile long dirt road..we know everyone on the mountian, my sister owns an adjoining 17 acre plot.im not worrired about intruders as much as providing a sustainable meat supply. growing vegetables is a must and we intend to feed the livestock with that( although the more i think about it the more im leaning towards goats).this is not a city or suburb scenario obviously.

~meathead

I didn't say it was a city scenario.
Do you really think when the food runs out in the city that people won't spread out?
And I did read the entire thread, do not assume otherwise.
You do things your way, I'll do things my way.
Good luck to you.
BTW, start feeding goats out of your garden, and good luck keeping them out of it.Not to mention other wildlife....

Cats, republicans, and alligators. Interesting. Why not go with snails, need a reeeeeeal small fence to keep them in?

Goats are the obvious first choice. Much easier to raise than cows, milk is a bit different to work with, but not any more difficult. Easy to raise, eat everything, dont taste real bad.

Rabbits make a good deal of sense. However, as has been stated before, lots of protein, no fat. Eat only rabbits and die. They do reproduce well (obviously), eat little, easy to care for, taste great. But the one reason I like rabbits is for potential barter. A buck and doe rabbit would command a good deal of firewood.

Chickens/Turkeys/Fowl. Obviously eggs are huge if you ever plan on baking again. I like chickens as they are simple to work with, kill, and if you have a mobile pen, you can keep moving them around meaning more grasses and bugs, less feed. Same goes for turkeys, but those things are real dumb. If going with both, keep them seperate as disease can cross them and kill off everything. Another bonus is of course the down, for clothing, blankets, pillows, etc... Also along the line of fowl, dont pass on ducks. Yes, they can fly along ways. Clip their wings or have a pen with a fence for a roof (should have this for all fowl to deter hawks and owls) Duck meat is very good, so are the eggs.

Sheep. One of my least favorite animals. But they have their place. Milk, meat, and the important fleece. I had sheep a couple years back, posted about it on here, made my own wool thread, it was alot of work, but eventually clothing will wear out, and while wearing hides works, something about wool I like.

If you dont want sheep, Alpaca's make a whole lot of sense, I am actually thinking about getting a few.

Horses. We're going to run out of gasoline eventually. Plowing fields, getting to and from hunting and fishing grounds will be much easier with a horse. I hear they taste good, but I wouldnt know.

Pigs. Yup, should be a staple. Almost all game meat is lean to some extent or another. Have you ever eaten venison sausage that is only venison? The fat that you get when you harvest a pig can really stretch any game animals that you have taken. Good for working new areas to plant, as they will destroy everything, making plowing easier, the eat anything you throw to them, simple to keep alive, and pig manure is right up there with chicken.

As for being in a northern clime, I'm farther north than you are, I either do, have, or know someone who has successfully raised each type of animal listed above.

Also, as for fencing in deer, or any other wild animal for that matter. Wouldnt it make more sense to go with domesticated animals that are accostomed to human interaction than trying to domesticate a new one? Sure it can be done, but I would love to be there the first time to try to milk a black bear.

I have a small farm, and we have chickens, turkeys, goats, pigs, and a horse.

Chickens and goats are the best. Pounds harvested vs pounds fed...they have the best conversion to protein ratio of any of the animals I've ever raised.

Further, they are foragers...which means minimal feed provision on your part. Less costs and less effort. Pigs/hogs are good...but you do have to provide feed for them, as they will root up a pasture or acreage of woods in no time.

Goats are great for clearing land of kudzu, poison ivy, honey suckle, etc and in about 2 months will have the lower 4 feet of a lot cleared like a giant weed eater went through.

Chickens and goats can be kept in pens, pastures, and in mobile pens known as chicken tractors and goat tractors...I even have hog tractors. Basically, you build a 4x4 frame...wrap 4 sides and top with chicken wire, set it in skis-skids-sled and move around yard...a little bit everyday...fresh grazing, no poop removal, and good health...for goats or hogs...use a 6'x8'pen on skids. set them in your garden areas to be, and they till it for you....works like a charm...yes, I have done it and still do it.

The biggest predators to goats and chickens in clude opossums, dogs, coyotes, hawks, owls. For goats it is coyotes, dogs, bobcats. You need a good watch animal...a pyrrenes dog, mule, donkey, lama work well.

In return, you get out of 12 chickens about 10-12 eggs a day...you don't need a rooster unless you intend to fertilize the eggs and incubate and hatch them.

Goats are easy, taste like lean beef but have cuts similar to a small cow or pig....they reproduce about every 5+ months so you can have kids twice a year. One billy(male) will breed a large number of nannies ( females).

There are many varieties of goats, so consider your needs...are they for milk...the boer ansd spanish goats are good...for dairy, nubian are good...I have pygmies as they are small, easy to handle, cheap so I can sell many easily. Most nannies will kidd 2, maybe 3 kidd goats at a time. First time mothers may lose some or all of their kidds from inexperience. So try to pin point the birth date as close as can and watch for signs. Mine usually wait until the worst weather to have theirs.

Pigs are very easy also, but the costs of feeding them is not cheap...I figure from birth to slaughter, my hogs cost me about 2.26 a lb. High for the cheap cuts, very low for the expensive cuts like tenderloin or roasts. But they provide an excessive amount of meat and you need to know how to preserve it...in a shtf scenario...you will need to know how to cure and salt hams, fatback, tenderloin, back bone, bacon, make and cookout the lard..mix with lye from wood ashes and make soap...also you will have to cook the highly perishable parts immediately, the day of killing...brains, organs, chitterlings, etc. Anyway, one full size hog weighing about 300 lbs will dress out at about 200 lbs...thats a lot of sausage and pork chops.

But the thing with hogs, you use everybit of the pig...casings for sausage, fat for grease/soap/medicine/lard... hair for bristles...you use evrything but the squeal.

Again, I will turn you to my favorite resource books...FOXFIRE... for real life info and how to.

Good luck

reply to post by AccessDenied


1. Any animal you keep must also be fed. This uses up precious resources that could be used to feed yourself.Not only that, but depending on the SHTF scenario, food for anything including livestock might be in limited or non- existent supply.Personally I'll feed my family before I'd feed a bunch of livestock.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree the animals will need to be fed, the premise here is you have a well established garden that you can use to not only feed yourself but also to maintian a sustainable source of meat. i dont think anyone here would feed the animals before thier family. the thread is about ideas in which livestock you would choose and why.




2. Keeping ANY animals makes you a target for those who have not had such foresight.
How far are you willing to go to protect a few rabbits in cages? Is it worth your life or the lives of your family should things get really ugly?
Personally..I'd rather be opportunistic. If I can hunt/ snare/ trap..then so be it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
And again yes i agree any property of value in such times would in effect make you a target. again i must reiterate i am talking 20 acres of land 30 miles south of canada at the end of a mile long dirt road..we know everyone on the mountian, my sister owns an adjoining 17 acre plot.im not worrired about intruders as much as providing a sustainable meat supply.of course foraging fishing and hunting would be employed whenever possible.that however has nothing to do with the LIVESTOCK ISSUE..

you say:
Not to burst any bubbles, but should I happen upon any one of your little rabbit farms...I'd help myself.

my reply:
as seems your nature, agressive and without forethought i wouldnt doubt you would try..

you say:
Be prepared.

imy reply
" and yet in this thread from what i have read you are only prepared to hunt oppurtunistically(sp) to pillage and take from those who are stockpiling.


you also said
I didn't say it was a city scenario.
Do you really think when the food runs out in the city that people won't spread out?

On the contrary i dont think that at all..i know they will be spreading out scavanging that is why my property is very unaccesable and litterally in the middle of nowhere.

You said
And I did read the entire thread, do not assume otherwise

my reply,
My deepest apologies i am sorry i jumped to that conclusion

you said
You do things your way, I'll do things my way.
Good luck to you




my reply
Thank you very much and best wishes to you as well,
however i am not stuck in a "My way" thats why i came here to ask advice and as i also mentioned in this thread i am seriously rethinking the rabbit idea and leaning towards goats and chickens.Ty for those of you who offered the lean rabbit meat info.

you said
BTW, start feeding goats out of your garden, and good luck keeping them out of it.Not to mention other wildlife....


my replky is this
Thank you for underestimating my intelligence ..no self respecting farmer would let a goat run wild in there crops, perhapsyou never heard of picking the veggies and putting them in to a penned up area with the goat?

I did not mean to argue with you and apologize if i came across rude sincerely, but i just dont think you really got the idea of this thread.perhaps thats my fault and i could have been more clear with the title this is actually my very first thread here on ats, so any pointer would be highly welcomed.

again ty all who have contributed to this thread i appreciate all the input and am taking the advice to heart.

~meathead

reply to post by Mike Stivic


Well another ludicrous thread.What do you think,there is going to be a announcement before anything happens?

If you have nothing at this moment you most likely are not going to have anything later.

What makes anyone believe that animals are all going to survive TSHF?

Maybe you are not aware that most of the issues with the planet is diseases that effect animals and are passed to humans.

Anyway,a persons best bet is to raise goats.

That is what the ancients did and they did it for a reason.

reply to post by Oneolddude


You are so right.

If you are seriously considering livestock, go ahead and do it. there is a definite learning curve and any experience gained is well worth the effort, BUT you need to do it now. Not when it has already happened.

First off, at the crisis point, no one is selling. Further, you have or develope the skills to manage a herd/flock. Then there is fencing, shelter, how to deal with injuries, sickness,

reply to post by Oneolddude


thanks for your comment.

using your logic i suppose there is really no use in trying to prepare for anything, yes the garden is established at the moment the shelter is not much more then a hunting camp, the builder for the cabin is hired the plans are layed and its being built this summer.

with your reasoning noone should bother planning ahead an d we should all run around dancing like crickets all summer?

i appreciate your input no matter how negative it might be but i dont think im the only one who hasnt just thrown thier hands in the air and given up. G_D bless you if that is your path, me and my family wont be walking down that road.

and yet another vote for the goat, i suppose its not such a silly thread afterall i mean at least one person (me) has learned something.

~meathead

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Again, I will turn you to my favorite resource books...FOXFIRE... for real life info and how to.

Good luck

I didnt realize anyone read the foxfire series anymore. I really wish they would re-release that with photos that arent out of the 70's. Same info, new photos.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Thank you for the extremely well put together reply. The goats are emerging as a clear winner here.

~meathead

Rabbits, Chickens, Pig, Goat.

Easy. Breed Fast Not picky.

reply to post by Mike Stivic


I get the idea perfectly.
As said..you do it your way, I'll do it mine.
Now who is underestimating intelligence?
You choose to grow a garden, and raise animals- so be it.
I choose a different path, and stated why.
Argue as you wish.