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# NY passes students who get wrong answers on tests

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posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:10 AM
NY passes students who get wrong answers on tests
By CARL CAMPANILE and SUSAN EDELMAN

Last Updated: 11:32 AM, June 6, 2010

Posted: 1:40 AM, June 6, 2010
When does 2 + 2 = 5?

When you're taking the state math test.

Despite promises that the exams -- which determine whether students advance to the next grade -- would not be dumbed down this year, students got "partial credit" for wrong answers after failing to correctly add, subtract, multiply and divide. Some got credit for no answer at all.

"They were giving credit for blatantly wrong things," said an outraged Brooklyn teacher who was among those hired to score the fourth-grade test.

State education officials had vowed to "strengthen" and "increase the rigor" of both the questions and the scoring when about 1.2 million kids in grades 3 to 8 -- including 450,000 in New York City -- took English exams in April and math exams last month.
But scoring guides obtained by The Post reveal that kids get half-credit or more for showing fragments of work related to the problem -- even if they screw up the calculations or leave the answer blank.

Examples in the fourth-grade scoring guide include:

* A kid who answers that a 2-foot-long skateboard is 48 inches long gets half-credit for adding 24 and 24 instead of the correct 12 plus 12.

* A miscalculation that 28 divided by 14 equals 4 instead of 2 is "partially correct" if the student uses the right method to verify the wrong answer.

* Setting up a division problem to find one-fifth of \$400, but not solving the problem -- and leaving the answer blank -- gets half-credit.

* A kid who subtracts 57 cents from three quarters for the right change and comes up with 15 cents instead of 18 cents still gets half-credit.

* A student who figures the numbers of books in 35 boxes of 10 gets half-credit despite messed-up multiplication that yields the wrong answer, 150 instead of 350.

These questions ask students to show their work. The scoring guidelines, called "holistic rubrics," require that points be given if a kid's attempt at an answer reflects a "partial understanding" of the math concept, "addresses some element of the task correctly," or uses the "appropriate process" to arrive at a wrong solution. Despite flubbing the answer, students can get 1 point on a 2-point problem and 1 or 2 points on a 3-pointer.

The Brooklyn teacher said she and peers who had trained to score the tests were stunned at some instructions.

"Everybody in the room was upset," she said.

The teacher had scored tests with some "controversial questions" for several years, but "this time it was more outrageous," she said. "You feel like you're being forced to cheat."

Scorers joked about giving points to kids who wrote their names, brought a pencil or shared gum.

However, score inflation is not funny, the whistleblower said.

"The kids who really need the help are just being shuffled along to the next grade without the basic skills to have true success. They are given a hollow success -- that's the crime of it. The state DOE is doing a disservice to its children."

Some testing experts are also troubled.

Ray Domanico, a former head of data analysis for city schools, said kids deserve a little credit for partial knowledge but agreed the scoring system "raises some questions about whether it's too generous."

State Education Department spokesman Tom Dunn defended the scoring.

"All teachers who score exams receive clear training and rubrics that detail scoring criteria for every question on the tests," he said. "Students who show work and demonstrate a partial understanding of the mathematical concepts or procedures embodied in the question receive partial credit."

But a few extra points can let a failing kid squeak by.

A year ago, Chancellor Joel Klein boasted that the city was making "dramatic progress" when 82 percent of city students passed the state math test and 69 percent passed in English, up sharply from 2002. And fewer kids have been left back in recent years.

What officials didn't reveal was that the number of points needed to pass proficiency levels has, in most cases, steadily dropped.

The state Board of Regents, which oversees the tests, has postponed the release of results until late July, but let the city Department of Education set its own "promotional cut scores" to decide which kids may be held back. The DOE will release those scores in the next two weeks, a spokesman said.

carl.campanile@nypost.com

Is this for real? People of ATS in New York, Please this is your future leaders, you know, like Obama.
Here are some concerned comments / responses from concerned citizens.
"The public school system has fallen victim to the triple threat of immigration,AFDC,and Roe v Wade." End Quote.
"Hey, but they all know who Paris Hilton and Britney Spears are." End Quote.
"Evidently our state leaders who handle the budget went to the same schools...." End Quote.
Source: MichaelSavage.com June 07, 2010

[edit on 7-6-2010 by guohua]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:26 AM
The school system is a joke...

82nd line?

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Republican08]

^^^^ I got a star even though it wasn't the 82nd line, but I knew it was a number!!! If I put a letter I would of only received a partial star

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Republican08]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:27 AM
This truly is very sad. What's even more crazy, is that we are going to be forced to hire these kids over more qualified applicants because of Affirmative Action and other restrictive hiring measures.

To me, this is just another example of the huge "dumbing down" effort that seems to be going on in America. Our children deserve better than this. This should be absolutely unacceptable. Not only will this screw the children in question, but it is going to wind up screwing the entire country and possibly the entire world. This affects all of us, not just these children though these children are the ones who will lose out the most.

--airspoon

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Republican08
The school system is a joke...

82nd line?

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Republican08]

Yes it is. One Big Joke.
How much do we pay in taxes to our education system every year?
I mean, They had to raise our sales tax 1 cent in Phoenix for three years.
They claimed it was for the children. B. S.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:36 AM

You said a mouth full right here."over more qualified applicants because of Affirmative Action and other restrictive hiring measures."
That is the Truth, Sad isn't it? (Yes, Samuel, order enough 25 lb bags of salt to equal 50 lbs. So you get 4 bags of 25 lbs each)
.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:38 AM

Originally posted by airspoon
This truly is very sad. What's even more crazy, is that we are going to be forced to hire these kids over more qualified applicants because of Affirmative Action and other restrictive hiring measures.

To me, this is just another example of the huge "dumbing down" effort that seems to be going on in America. Our children deserve better than this. This should be absolutely unacceptable. Not only will this screw the children in question, but it is going to wind up screwing the entire country and possibly the entire world. This affects all of us, not just these children though these children are the ones who will lose out the most.

--airspoon

Alas, not only are the children going to be incapable of basic math skills and understanding for jobs of substance, they won't even be able to turn over and join the military because we already are worried that they weigh too much to fit the lowest standards in the military!!!

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:43 AM

There is no point in schools for people with IQs below a certain point. Maybe thats about 85. Thats about half of the new people.
This snowball is rolling up the hill.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:48 AM
The really sad part is that this is happening everywhere in the U.S. not just NY. It's probably happening in your child's school too but no one's telling and the kids, well why would they tell, they passed.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 12:55 AM
Well I can't speak for most of this, but partial credit is given at pretty much all education levels depending on the assigned task. Heck even professional certifications can give partial credit. That's a fairly standard practice all around, even while I was in college partial credit could be given for certain questions. Obviously not every question can apply for partial credit, true/false questions for example. However multiple choice questions with the possibility of multiple answers being correct could result in partial, being given a list of 7 answers and asked to find the 3 correct, giving 2 out of 3 would result in partial credit.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:09 AM
Well,I would not doubt it.

I heard just recently about a 18 year old in Detroit in front of a judge for a crime.

She was told by the public defender that they were waiting for a Spanish interpreter to show up to translate.

The judge asked where the defendant was from.

He was born and lived his whole life in the U.S. and had graduated from high school and could not speak English.

Public schools are not teaching institutes anymore.

They are places for liberals to indoctrinate children in the socialist way.

We as a society are doomed.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Oneolddude]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 01:12 AM
My brothers ol' lady is in college right now and this is what I think about when reading the thread. She is going for nursing which I am sure she will become a great one eventually. On to the meat of my post.

She said last year she was in Anatomy and failed. I told her that I thought that that sucked but maybe she will get it next time. She went on to tell me that even though she failed she "participated" in a fundraiser for her teacher or something like that and the teacher gave her 10 points to pass. I poke fun at her all the time and just kinda shook my head, laughed, and said, "Sure, what the hell do you need to know the human anatomy for as a nurse?" She giggled and said "don't worry it is only the first anatomy." The thing is on this particular thing I really don't care. If she was going to be a doctor, I would, but I believe nurses should be apprenticeships which she will get eventually as an intern. Eh, that's a different discussion though.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 09:31 AM

We get taxed enough to pay for a really good education to our kids, I mean, if you can't pass this year, shouldn't we keep you another year?
I know when I was in school, I was nearly held back for math, went to summer school and had to stay after class and get one on one help from the teacher.
Now don't they do that any more? All my kids are grown in their 30's and I remember them staying after for help and going to summer school when necessary.
What's with our education system now?
Teacher working 8 to 3 only.
I know we have teachers on this site. Come on whats up with all the stupid kids.
Hell I truly believe, If that cash register didn't tell them how much money I get back from a purchase,,, They'd never figure it out. Am I Lying?

I know this is happening in every state, I think this is one reason so many parents have started to home school.
True or Not?

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 09:48 AM

I know we have teachers on this site. Come on whats up with all the stupid kids.

Standardized testing is what is up with all the stupid kids. The entire education system needs to be revamped from the floor up. I made a decision not to go back into "the system" as it were until things get fixed, or they collapse. It's sad that it has to come to that because the kids deserve a better education than they are getting, but the collapse needs to happen. State/Federal standardized exams need to go away. Grades need to go away. We need to take an approach like Japan:

They go to school until 8th grade. If they don't pass their high school proficiency exam, they go to vocational school. There's no shame in that. The world needs ditch diggers too.

The problem with this country is that everybody feels entitled to the best of everything. I disagree. You are entitled to what you work and study for. For the kids that just don't want to be in school, great, let them go. Find out what interests them and send them to vocational school. Shoot, some factory button pushers make more money than I did as a teacher, because of the powerful labor union.

The point I'm making is that standardized exams are the problem and not the solution. They are used to rate how much state/federal aid a school district is going to get for the following academic year. The higher the scores, and the higher the passing rate, the more money your school district gets. They are being paid for mediocrity, and it makes me sick to my stomach. There are people that I know in their early 20's that can't even do basic division, addition, subtraction, and multiplication in their heads. Some of them cannot even write a coherent letter. The bar is being lowered every day, and it's about time that the system gets changed.

Anyway, just my \$.02

Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 10:31 AM

I want to thank you for your service to our children, I mean, It sounded to me like, you gave up because no one cares about education. I'm sure you do and it must of been frustrating to you to know there is a way to fix our problem, but it is not going to happen until the system collapses on it self.
Can you just imagine, how many other teachers, educators, mentors like yourself, could see the light at the end of the tunnel, but knew in their heart, know one except a few like yourselves cared.
It reminds me of a conveyor belt, rolling along just pushing them out and to be what? Ditch diggers are a dying breed, my first job before I was drafted, I had a wife and baby on the way, I remember getting payed 1.25 an hour.

I'm going to Rant a little more, OK?
You stated, "We need to take an approach like Japan."
YES, we do, or like China. Little do people know, kids in China Commit suicide because they can't attend college. Or they are dismissed from college because they failed a course. They are embarrassed to return to their families.
But then again, Japan and China don't have a Great Social Welfare System to fall back on.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 10:35 AM
NY definitely does this,
I know allot of people from NY,
Do you know... I know 4 of them who got "GED's" in NY also..
3 of the 4 of them, (all friends, went at the same time)..
They only put down 'real answers'.. for maybe half of the test,
one or two of them said not even that much..
and then just filled out the rest quickly without even reading the questions.
They had something to do apparently and whatever it was, was more important i guess.
lol

anyway...
every one of them, passed with scores I dont think they would have gotten even if they really tried.
They think the same so Im really just agreeing, not talkin smack. lol

Also,
When I went to school in NY as a child..
I was passed to the next grade twice/[maybe thrice],haha
just so they wouldnt have to deal with me for long...
and my grades then did not permit it, I assure you.

So yeah, most of them dont care about actually educating people,
There's still allot of great teachers out there,
But not nearly enough.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:06 AM

Originally posted by guohua

I want to thank you for your service to our children, I mean, It sounded to me like, you gave up because no one cares about education. I'm sure you do and it must of been frustrating to you to know there is a way to fix our problem, but it is not going to happen until the system collapses on it self.
Can you just imagine, how many other teachers, educators, mentors like yourself, could see the light at the end of the tunnel, but knew in their heart, know one except a few like yourselves cared.
It reminds me of a conveyor belt, rolling along just pushing them out and to be what? Ditch diggers are a dying breed, my first job before I was drafted, I had a wife and baby on the way, I remember getting payed 1.25 an hour.

I'm going to Rant a little more, OK?
You stated, "We need to take an approach like Japan."
YES, we do, or like China. Little do people know, kids in China Commit suicide because they can't attend college. Or they are dismissed from college because they failed a course. They are embarrassed to return to their families.
But then again, Japan and China don't have a Great Social Welfare System to fall back on.

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, the suicide rates among school aged children are noticeably higher in Asian countries than others. Why do you think we have so many Asian foreign exchange students? They come to the US because they feel that they can get an "easier" education. Believe me, I know this first hand. I had many friends in my University that were exactly like that. They barely made it through high school and could not make it into college in their home countries so they came here. While I think that the problem is over-exaggerated, the numbers are indeed there to support what you said. In countries such as those, however, every job is given some sort of reverence. They are all contributing to their communities and making their homes a better place. I would consider Japan much more civilized than China in that respect. In China, they have no choice. I am still learning about Asian history as a whole, but from what I know, bringing honor to the family doesn't have to mean that you are at the top of the corporate ladder, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. I think it means more so that you can support yourself and make a living at what you are doing. I do think sometimes that their schooling system is too tough, but is that really that bad? There is a reason why they are one of the top countries in the world in the way of math, science, and even music. I think implementing a schooling system similar to Japan in the US would have a very different effect. Our culture isn't based on giving honor to our families. It is based on pursuing our own happiness in whatever way we see possible. If everybody was granted an education to the 8th grade, and then had the choice of going to high school or going to vocational school, I think we would solve many of our problems overnight. The kids that don't want to be there (which makes our jobs even tougher than they already are), shouldn't be required to be there. Find out their interests, and if they like cars, or motorcycles, or just plain working with their hands, send them off to learn to be an electrician, or an engine worker, or whatever. Many of those careers make more money than many other "middle class jobs" out there. My friend is a Master Electrician (started when he was in 9th grade) and he makes well over six figures a year---and for something that he loves doing.

What some fail to realize is that our country was built with blood, sweat, and tears. It was built with the callused hands of blue collar workers. Many of them (like my grandfather) didn't complete high school (although my grandfather got his GED while he was in the Marines during the Korean conflict), however, they built our country from the bottom up. Manufacturing was the corner stone of our country....not math, science, or academic type pursuits.

I think that at the microcosm level, our education system is a reflection upon the loss of our original values: hard work, sweat, blood, etc. By changing the system to reflect our original values, there will perhaps be a huge change. Of course, it has to go all the way to the Federal and Commercial level (I put them in the same category, because we all know that they are bed partners). We need to bring manufacturing back to the US. We need to stop the crime of outsourcing the very cornerstone upon which our country was created.

As far as me giving up the education field (for now), it was a hard choice to make. I was forced to leave my previous employer due to budget cuts. I hunted for six months for a new teaching job, but then realized how much I hated the day to day grind, the politics, and the children that just did not want to be there. So I stopped looking. I've been substitute teaching to keep my skills sharp, but to deal with the politics of a school district is just something that I do not want to subject myself to. I agree that there are probably many teachers out there that see things the way I see them, but they are much older, have mortgages, children, etc., and cannot just give up their profession. They are stuck in the middle of a cultural war, which I see no end. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, but in order to reach it, more teachers have to start seeing the bigger picture. When a staff meeting turns into a meeting of Parliament (including the name-calling, cussing, swearing, arguing, etc.), there needs to be a fix. Unfortunately, finding those teachers who haven't been indoctrinated themselves to believe in a system that is dying is a very hard prospect. Once you piss off one school district, you are blacklisted. People entrenched in the system will say that it doesn't happen, but it does. I was told by my union lawyer, when I was fighting for the younger teachers who were being cut, that I would not win a battle against the union, and that I should just "sit down and shut up" and salvage my career somewhere else. This is when I realized how corrupt even the education system is.

I still work with kids whenever I can. I tutor, teach private music lessons, work with college-aged education majors, and substitute teach. At the end of the day, the only people who are hurting are the kids.

Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:27 AM

"I still work with kids whenever I can. I tutor, teach private music lessons, work with college-aged education majors, and substitute teach. At the end of the day, the only people who are hurting are the kids." End Quote

I respect you and the decisions you made. Thank You for keeping that higher standard for our children and doing what you do best.

I truly believe the Teachers Union is one of the problems. But that is my opinion.

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:33 AM

I truly believe the Teachers Union is one of the problems. But that is my opinion.

Absolutely. But that is a different discussion for a different day.

Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:39 AM

Kind of harsh words coming from a professed educator. What makes you think vocational schools are just for "ditch diggers?" and "button pushers?"

Oh that's right, you seem to think it's necessarily important to go to an academic college, rack up student loans that will take you years to pay off, then realize the field you majored in got saturated last graduation and not only is no one hiring, but if you do get hired, the salary is only going to be half what you thought.

Higher education is a racket. Which is why the education system has failed at the base.

You see. Religious colleges specialize in education. They don't care if you're prepared to teach the youth. All they care about is that you will perpetuate their beliefs.

I know because I went to one of these colleges for a business degree. They stuck me in the most watered down classes. People like me who graduated taking calculus end up in algebra-I doing things we did freshman year in high school. Science class was from a man showing early signs of Alzheimer who could only manage to remember things when he would do magic tricks.

They make sure everyone can sleep through their basic courses, as long as you pass their insanely thorough mandatory religious courses and mandatory community service they'll give anyone a diploma. It waters down the system from the top down.

It shouldn't be any surprise that we are regressing in everything. We assess peoples abilities based on everything BUT how well they can perform. More and more success is based on social acceptance rather than what you know.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by PayMeh]

posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:50 AM

Kind of harsh words coming from a professed educator. What makes you think vocational schools are just for "ditch diggers?" and "button pushers?"

Oh that's right, you seem to think it's necessarily important to go to an academic college, rack up student loans that will take you years to pay off, then realize the field you majored in got saturated last graduation and not only is no one hiring, but if you do get hired, the salary is only going to be half what you thought.

I apologize if what I stated came off as insulting. My entire family has been in the manufacturing sector their entire lives and I am the first person in my family to go to and graduate from a four-year college and two years of grad school. I paid my way, myself, working crap jobs, putting up with horrible living conditions, because I thought I could make a difference in the end.

And I didn't say vocational schools were just for "button pushers" and "ditch diggers." Vocational schools, in my opinion, are better than higher education. Someone that goes through one of those programs learns real skills. Those skills can be applied to any number of sectors in the manufacturing/construction/HVAC/electrician world. My only point is that I think it to be ridiculous that students be force-fed information that they may not have a desire to learn. By affording them the opportunity to go into the vocational world, they might have a better chance than someone like me, with a six year college education, to get a sustainable and lucrative job. I'm in debt out my eyeballs, my position was cut, and now I have a Master's Degree and no applicable skills outside of the white collar world.

Blue collar workers are what made this country great, and that's what it should go back to.

So once again, I apologize if I sounded "holier-than-art-thou."

Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

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