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Do the people of the U.S. have what it takes?

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posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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Is it time to refresh the tree of liberty?
Is there a non-violent solution?
Or is it too late?


"PRESIDENT KENNEDY ONCE SAID THAT A DINNER FOR NOBEL LAUREATES WAS THE GREATEST CONCENTRATION OF BRAIN POWER EVER GATHERED AT THE WHITE HOUSE, EXCEPT WHEN THOMAS JEFFERSON DINED ALONE."

"One of the most brilliant men ever! Obviously, he was a man ahead of his time."

"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe."
Thomas Jefferson


Washinton DC, New York, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc...


"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
Thomas Jefferson

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson


Would not, or Will not --- Not Can not.
Welfare etc...


"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."
Thomas Jefferson


How many generations will it take to pay off the current national debt?


"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
Thomas Jefferson


Big Government by both Democrats and Republicans.


"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
Thomas Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson


Tyranny in government? Are we there yet?


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson


Do the people of the U.S. have what it takes? Are there enough that are fed up with the games they play in DC?


"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property - until their children awake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered."




posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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As answer to your question, I take this quote from the declaration of independence; emphasis added is mine.


"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

The problem with the question you ask is that it is tantamount to one's child in the back seat repeatedly asking "are we there yet?" when they clearly can see outside themselves - they simply do not recognize the road they travel for what it is, nor are they familiar with their destination. In other words, the fact and evidence surround them, they simply cannot see it for what it is.

Unfortunately, without strong leadership, the peoples of these united States will continue to quietly slip into the night, for it would seem this is how it has been planned for, since it would do TPTB no good to aquire all the worlds wealth and resources if the people "caught on" while they still had a chance to resist.

I have often wondered though, how many acquaintances, neighbors, and friends have been doing as I have; that is, retaining a calm, composed veneer and making plans for the future while secretly stocking up on food, water, and ammunition....



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by blood0fheroes

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."


I believe this to be part of the problem in that "we the people" are too comfortable with our panem et circenses (bread and games) modernspeak: Services and Entertainment.


The problem with the question you ask is that it is tantamount to one's child in the back seat repeatedly asking "are we there yet?" when they clearly can see outside themselves - they simply do not recognize the road they travel for what it is, nor are they familiar with their destination. In other words, the fact and evidence surround them, they simply cannot see it for what it is.


Precisely why I used it, we do not know where we are being lead, and we do not recognize the road we are on. We are in "uncharted Waters" here and have no plan that will lead us to shore safely.


I have often wondered though, how many acquaintances, neighbors, and friends have been doing as I have; that is, retaining a calm, composed veneer and making plans for the future while secretly stocking up on food, water, and ammunition....



Many are doing just that, some are moving in another direction.
www.lincolncountywatch.org...
While most do nothing because they see no need.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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What is your source for all these alleged Jefferson quotes? Some of them are of questionable authenticity. They didn't happen to come to you by way a forwarded email message did they? The reason I ask is because the order in which you posted these "quotes" is with one exception the same as that of a sample bogus email forward.

The Writings of Thomas Jefferson-Truth! & Unproven!

Is this how you get your information, from chain letters!??



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 





What is your source for all these alleged Jefferson quotes? Some of them are of questionable authenticity. They didn't happen to come to you by way a forwarded email message did they? The reason I ask is because the order in which you posted these "quotes" is with one exception the same as that of a sample bogus email forward. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson-Truth! & Unproven! Is this how you get your information, from chain letters!??



While very sarcastic and emotionally charged to bring about the desired reaction, your post is highly suspect, and misleading at best, Lilitu. You say "all these alleged Jefferson quotes", cite a "bogus chain e-mail", then offer a link. One can only come to the conclusion that this is intended to "debunk" the OP, however according to your own source, 70% of the quotes are entirely 100% accurate, one is mis-quoted, and the remaining two are simply un-confirmed.

Regardless, who did or did not say ANY of these, does that negate their inherit wisdom?
Further, your post contributes not one iota to the OP's topic......Is this how you debate, by not even acknowledging the question that was asked while attempting to illicit an emotionally charged, pre-programed response!??



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by blood0fheroes
 


Thank you for your opinion. I would still like to know the source of these quotes.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 


Quite welcome. To try to answer your question, again seven(technically eight) have been confirmed by the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia, while two remain unconfirmed. Truly, I can understand the all-encompassing desire to Know, however we may never know who originally spoke the remaining two. That being understood, again i ask - Which is more important, the person who said "it", or the inherent wisdom of the message?

Sadly, it is "bed time for bonzo" (quarter till midnight on this side of the world) so for now I must adjourn. Intelligent discourse is always a pleasure, so please dont take my absence for spite.




posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Lilitu
reply to post by blood0fheroes
 


Thank you for your opinion. I would still like to know the source of these quotes.

The Quotes with my sources Gathered over several weeks of surfing.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
www.quotedb.com...

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson
www.freerepublic.com...

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson
www.brainyquote.com...

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
www.brainyquote.com...

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
Thomas Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson
www.c4cg.org...

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson
www.quotedb.com...

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property - until their children awake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
www.federalbudget.com...

Does this satisfy your curiosity? As a side note they are posted in order by subject.
The chain letter you linked to I have never seen, I have seen similar though.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by RedmoonMWC]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by RedmoonMWC]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by blood0fheroes
That being understood, again i ask - Which is more important, the person who said "it", or the inherent wisdom of the message?


Accurate and authoritative sourcing is more important so that the quotes may be read in their original context if so desired. What does it say of the character of someone who makes up aphorisms and then attributes them to one of our founding fathers? He is either a deceitful liar or unstudious, perhaps both.

Anyway you "patriots" love to hold yourselves up as true Americans and keepers of the flame of liberty, so providing the little information I asked for ought to be easy for you since you are so well educated in American History. On the other hand if it did in fact come from a "chain letter" of all things... well...



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by RedmoonMWC
 


Great thread and Great Quotes. Thomas Jefferson was a deep thinker and I would have to assume others as well.
And we all know how Liberals like to bash Freedom Loving Patriots when confronted with things they can not read and understand or comprehend.
You know like the Bill of Rights or our Constitution.

S&F


[edit on 6-6-2010 by guohua]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by guohua]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by guohua
 


Thank you,
She is correct in that I should have posted my sources and I usually do, my mistake, won't happen again.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by RedmoonMWC]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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i found this an interesting thread and i must say i firmly believe the side who fires the first shot loses, i dont want to see a militant means
to fix this problem. im a pacifist at heart and dont think i could take anothers life the thought of a violent revolution is chilling as it is depressing.id like to think there is another option , im not one of these" new age i can ascend and become G-D people"
but i do believe there is an awakening going on that can only be described as "Positive" and im optimistic although not a fool...

that said here are two quotes i found highly interesting:

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. – Thomas Jefferson

and


This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future! – Adolph Hitler [1935] The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany




i dont want to need a gun but i like the idea of a right to own one..



~meathead



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by RedmoonMWC
Is it time to refresh the tree of liberty?
Is there a non-violent solution?
Or is it too late?

Tyranny in government? Are we there yet?



No, its not time to start shooting people.

Violence does not resolve problems.

Yes, there is a non-violent solution.

Yes, it is too late to save the dollar, and with it, our current system of government.

Yes, there is epic tyranny in government.




They have destroyed the dollar, there is no way for them to stop the debt spiral. Soon the dollar will be worthless. The violence will come from the drooling public school educated idiots that government has enslaved with its welfare programs.

When the dollar implodes, the idiots will no longer be able to feed themselves with their welfare checks; thus, violence will ensue.

The military will be used against the people to suppress riots and to hand out rations.

Price controls will be put in place and all public services will be rationed.

At that point, armed rebellion will be a very real possibility.

This could all be prevented if people like Rand Paul and Peter Schiff are elected because they would eliminate the Federal Reserve and liquidate the debt. However, our current crop of criminal politicians will not do that.

Thus, chaos will ensue.



[edit on 6-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Mike Stivic
i found this an interesting thread and i must say i firmly believe the side who fires the first shot loses, i dont want to see a militant means
to fix this problem. im a pacifist at heart and dont think i could take anothers life the thought of a violent revolution is chilling as it is depressing.id like to think there is another option , im not one of these" new age i can ascend and become G-D people"
but i do believe there is an awakening going on that can only be described as "Positive" and im optimistic although not a fool...

that said here are two quotes i found highly interesting:

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. – Thomas Jefferson

and


This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future! – Adolph Hitler [1935] The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany




i dont want to need a gun but i like the idea of a right to own one..



~meathead

Very well said.
I do not want a violent revolution either. I am by no means a pacifist, the Marine Corps Trained me very well. I can and have used violence in the past, it is not something I enjoy or want to do again.

There is a corollary to the right to keep and bear arms, it is the responsibility to learn how and when to use them.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Yes there is some hope if enough people are willing to step up and send a strong message by voting all incumbants out.
Ron and Rand Paul may be exceptions to this but they're only two people.
I have noticed that our "neutral"media only recognizes two parties.
And that the differences between those parties is minimal at best.

The majority of "Survivalist", for lack of a better word, are stocking up on food, water and ammo, and I am not saying that is a bad thing, but there are some who are taking a different approach also.
www.lincolncountywatch.org...



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by blood0fheroes

I have often wondered though, how many acquaintances, neighbors, and friends have been doing as I have; that is, retaining a calm, composed veneer and making plans for the future while secretly stocking up on food, water, and ammunition....



Sadly, I think it is very few. There are only a handful people I know who are as concerned as I about what is happening in this country, and even they are not taking it seriously enough to get prepared.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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Has there been a time that Americans have lived a better life than today? We are freer than we ever have been, and that is because in the past we were ignorant and couldn’t see the chains for what they were. I’m not saying we still do not have a long way to go, but it is kind of hard to up rise during a time that we have never lived a better life.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 





What does it say of the character of someone who makes up aphorisms and then attributes them to one of our founding fathers? He is either a deceitful liar or unstudious, perhaps both.


Wow...You speak as if the OP designed these quotes while attributing them to someone else, then turn around in the same breath and say the only other possibility is that they were taken out of context? Please, help me understand; are you accusing the OP of plagiarism, or libel? Which is it?

The fact remains, that these quotes, all of them, have been attributed to Thomas Jefferson for a very, very long time. Most likely before either of us were even born.
Not sure if you're aware of this, but Thomas Jefferson has been dead for about 184 years, so whilst our recorded history can confirm almost all of these, none of us can truly KNOW if he said any of it...We simply were not there.




Anyway you "patriots" love to hold yourselves up as true Americans and keepers of the flame of liberty, so providing the little information I asked for ought to be easy for you since you are so well educated in American History. On the other hand if it did in fact come from a "chain letter" of all things... well..


This is worded it seems, to be nothing more than inflammatory bait. As pointed out above, no it is not easy. In fact impossible since no one alive was there. Because no one who is alive was there at that time, we can only take what history tells us at a sort of face value, while seeking the deeper inherent wisdom.

You have the word patriots in quotations, alluding that you believe me to be otherwise. Tell me, why is this so? What brings you to question my patriotism, or my love of my country? More-so, what does that have anything to do with how well I can perceive the past? Do you think me a seer?

Once more I would like to point out that since you question the validity of these quotes, FROM YOUR OWN SOURCE....all are attributed to the man, one has been mis-quoted, and only two remain unconfirmed. Unconfirmed is not the same as false.....it is just that, un-known. Un-known, as in not knowable...you see where I'm going with this?

On a side note, if you cannot proceed from here, and begin to debate without being sarcastic, inflammatory, and/or derogatory, then I will have no choice but to conclude our little debate, as I have no desire to feed the trolls.....


[edit on 6-6-2010 by blood0fheroes]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:51 PM
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Excellent OP. Jefferson was in certain respects a true "seer", who had a remarkable grasp of social systems and the forces that both nourish and corrupt them.

Regarding your question: like others here, I feel we are on the verge of a major transformation, which will intially be brought about by a general financial collapse, resulting eventually in total social chaos, i.e., the collapse of all major corporations, governments, and social institutions--like a runaway chain reaction.

However, i also feel that these troubled times will be the birth pangs of something very good--at least for future generations, and like all forms of natural birth, the babe is usually born covered in blood. I have zero desire to be instrumental in this, but i fear lots of blood will be shed all around, from both natural and man-made causes.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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S & F Red. I have seen all of these quotes many times attributed to Jefferson. He was truly a prescient man.

The quote on the right to bear arms sort of settles the liberal BS of 2nd Amendment = militia only, don't you think?

After these last 2 years it seems he was also "spot on" on the bankers. Wonder if he and Alexander Hamilton had some colorful debates on this subject. TJ must have turned over in his grave when the Fed was born.



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