How far does judgement go?

By naming something are we judging it?

If i see something i see it right? Now if i see something and i name it, what implication does that have? I'm generalizing math and language together on this.

Example -

If i see an apple, by saying it is "an" and "apple", have i chosen to judge it as just 1 apple, and have i chosen to judge it as, an apple?

Language manipulation is probably the biggest hurdle in my eyes. Overcoming this hurdle is far greater then anything else i have encountered. I am going to think of language as the name of a demon from now on. Adam ate the fruit and he began to realize speech and language.

reply to post by onequestion


Interesting thoughts.. perhaps I shouldn't be reading or responding to such threads at 3:30 am, ey?

Meh..

By using the word 'judgment', are you expressing the thought that naming is negative in and of itself? Or is that me just manipulating and giving negative meaning to the word judgment?

Good conversation starter.. S&F.

It is the actual thought of having to name it that places it within the spectrum of ego, or judgement.

If i don't think about the apple and i just observe the apple, then it is just an apple, but then again if i stop and think of it as an apple then what does it become? Without the application of thought is it an apple, or not an apple? It can only be an apple if i name it and think of it as an apple, but if i don't think of it as anything and just observe it, it remains apart of me.

Consider this thoroughly when reading please.

reply to post by broahes


I believe i synchronized with your post and typed a response as you typed the question! lol.

I am expressing that by thinking of it, your are expressing judgement, which of and in itself is negative polarity. I think i expressed my point more clearly in my second post.

reply to post by onequestion


Yes, I agree, your second post clarified your point well. It was a perfect response to mine, although it wasn't meant to be.

I agree, word manipulation is a barrier.. and I'm not sure it is one that will ever be overcome.

Everything that we know has a definition attached to it, and I believe that our experiences would be more full if we were not limited by those definitions.

Maybe I should wait until tomorrow before discussing this further..

I may confuse myself.

reply to post by onequestion


By naming something, we are placing our beliefs on that item, but we are not judging.

Naming and judging are different. If you say an apple is an apple, you are naming, not judging.

Are you studying philosophy? For example, if a tree falls in a forest and no-one witnessed it, did it happen? (Well, the answer is yes, obviously, because you could go there next day and see it).

And if one hand is clapping, is that clapping because we do not hear the noise of clapping? But the hand is applauding anyway.

I studied philosophy at university, and I hear a lot of people saying "Oh, that explains it" - and the study of philosophy can go too far.

I wouldn't worry - just try and explain the process of living, and come to terms with that. And do not try and explain it, actually, because no-one can.

reply to post by onequestion


My philosophy...when just oberving the apple as an object, the apple is merely just a thought form, no different than a orange. It is your perception of the thought concluding that it is an "apple", and your feelings about said apple, where the judgement arises.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Good Intentions]

reply to post by catwhoknows


I don't think that were judging it as much as we are claiming it. In our ego, we think that we KNOW. We do not. Can we actually say we know what an apple is? I don't. An apple is a figment of our own definition.

We have no knowledge to say that we KNOW what is. Almost all of our opinions will be different. We see as them as different, you may see it as a form of nutrition, but I am allergic (truly) and I see it as something that will make me ill.

So take what you will the communication that we have with others, not as a form of truth, but as a form of their wisdom, because it may be different from yours.

Peace to you...

reply to post by catwhoknows


Yeah, but if that tree fell andt there was no one to hear the sound, did it make a sound?

I'm not sure about all this judging and naming.

I guess just color me confused.



I guess if I see, an apple and call it an apple, because that is my reference to it, and someone else says it's an orange. Well, it's all just words, right? I dunno. Philosophy was never my strong point and I am probably drowning in this post right now.

But the other person sees the same thing as me, a sort of round thing with a smooth skin and, depending upon the outer color, it's green or yellow or red, then aren't we seeing the same thing? But just have different names for it?

But if I see a red apple, and the other guy sees an orange with bumpy skin, and calls it that, then there is a problem here,,,,,,,or not. lol

Like I said, philosophy is not one of my strong points, Never took a philosophy class or even a logic class.

But, if I see an object and say, I bet that will taste sweet, and the other guy says, I see the same object and it will be sour. I guess then there is some sort of judgment.

Oh, gosh. It's late, but it probably won't make a difference. I'm just out of the loop.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


An apple is not a figment of our imagination - it is a fruit, that some call an apple. But it exists independently of our beliefs.

Sorry, I don't get your point.

reply to post by kyred


Yes, it is totally confusing, and we should be focussing on the meaning of existence - our own - because are we going to last much longer?

And if so, why?

reply to post by catwhoknows


Hmmmmmmmmmmm... no, in my mind, we are not going to exist much longer as we are. But I believe we will continue to exist.

Why won't we exist much longer in this current form? Because we are mucking it up big time. And we have worn out this current reality. And this reality was intended to be worn out.

Of course, I have no links or such things to back up my ideas. I just have the ideas in my head that I have been exposed to, from not of "this world sort of sources". If you can understand that, and I think you can.

Philosophy and logic are not my strong points. Colors and shapes are.

And the colors and shapes were external that I have experienced, and I don't believe the were from inside my little brain. I cannot even reproduce them and I am an artist.

And with the colors and shapes come knowledge to me. Or else I'm just crazy.

No matter. I have fun and might be just blissfully unaware of WTF is going on.

I gotta get to bed. This has been interesting. Thanks, folks.
Secone line cuz, well, I guess it's habit.

Originally posted by onequestion
By naming something are we judging it?

yes, but in coalition with the very substances and energies that have any effect on us whatsoever, not to mention what we are constructed of.

however, if we ourselves cannot live up to the standards and expectations we place on others, this can be a detremental form of judgement, for both the one judging, and the ones being judged.

anythings "label" does not necessarily mean that it's truest potentials, our true selves, are confined to the labels others place upon us.

but these opinions i share may not be appropriate for all situations, all circumstances. just some of my opinions on the matter.

If i see something i see it right? Now if i see something and i name it, what implication does that have? I'm generalizing math and language together on this.

i think we put more into language at many levels, more than we may always know.

for instance, you may be conditioned to believe language only goes from left to right, and this is the absolute truth of it.

yet, sometimes when we reverse or mirror image the words, there seems to be a connection, sometimes phonetic connections as well, which produce more truisms in the word we named it when we judged it:

boots [mirror] stood
shower [mirror] rewash
effort [mirror] trophy

Language manipulation is probably the biggest hurdle in my eyes. Overcoming this hurdle is far greater then anything else i have encountered. I am going to think of language as the name of a demon from now on. Adam ate the fruit and he began to realize speech and language.

eden [reversed/phonetically] nude

don't feel alone all the time. i know my language pretty well, yet i still have problems explaining with words some experiences i have had, and what they meant to me.

Best wishes,
E.T.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

reply to post by onequestion

By naming something are we judging it?

math and language together on this.

If you assign the label of "a" to an unknown quantity, are you assigning a value to the quantity now labeled "a"?

reply to post by onequestion


i think....

the forbidden fruit....

may have been the banana


a short poem:

if infinity stood up it would be 8
what a cruel twist of fate
oh, for an unlucky primate
who would choose to create
a joke with no punchline for adam's mate?
we have some but to kick, hope we ain't late!
is ABBA TAB = 12212012, we'll standby till that date.
hope nothing wants to try to cast down too much hate

we cannot forget, firefighter will always remember
what happened to them on the 11th of september

Fire debt, i hunt ford
Fire Rift debt Hound


[edit on 6-6-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

I see it like this :

An apple is just an apple. Only at the moment we start thinking of it as food we judge according our previous experience that it is food.

Yet as a fruit it is intend to be eaten and so spread the seeds of the apple tree.

An apple can not be subjected to a negative judgment.


When you look ate people, you will find differences. Some people are black others are white, noticing and naming the difference is not judging it is the result of an observation.
However... and this is what I think you meant in the OP.

The moment you name one to be black, nothing wrong with that, right ? all is well.
When you present another label to that person because he or she is black, like any prejudice judgment, he is probably a thief, or dumb or scum. Then it is judging.

When that person is indeed a thief and you can proof it then it is again a result of an observation. When you think no wonder he's a thief cause he's black. It is judging again...

Well... That's all I got to offer.

PS.

This post is Not intended to be offensive to my fellow colored human beings.
I simply thought it was the best way to try and explain myself.

In order to exist in the most minimal way we must make judgements.

If we didn't use judgements we could find ourselves in a dreadful situation.

Let me address the apple first. An apple can be many things to me. They are:
1. food
2. a treat for my pet cow
3. a good source of vitamin C
4. If manipulated it can be a desert

Well, the list goes on but surely you get my point as I try to grasp your point.

Being of the Christian persuasion, I've heard"Do not judge". Is that what you are trying to get at?
If so, that verse of the Holy Bible is taken out of text and not a complete sentence or thought process .

The Author of that phrase said "Do not judge lest you be judged in the same manner."

That is a different slant on this word "judgement".

Is it a dirty apply or a clean apple. Is it a rotten apple or is it nice and tasty? If you don't make that judgement about that object and you eat it you may become ill.

We can also use a chicken as an example. Some of it's names can be:
1. fried leg quarters
2. a meat to add to rice or noodles
3. I have several chickens that are also called pets
4. My male chicken (rooster) is an alarm clock

If you ever turn in a person cheating on the IRS they will audit you as well in the same manner they audit the person you told them about.

There are some fine points we need to consider. One is how, what and why we are judging and what will the outcome of said judgement be.

Is this question of judgement a conundrum? It could be and maybe it isn't. That answer will take judgement by the reader before it can be answered.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by dizziedame]

..

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Jussi]

reply to post by dizziedame


I am more or less trying to understand the whole experience of an apple rather then the "do not judge" aspect of it. If i take the apple, i feel like i am describing a separation from a whole, rather then an experience within the whole.