(Solution) Free Energy + 20 Hr Work Wk + Zero Taxes = Freedom

Working less and making more is a nice concept, but would drive the costs of everything you buy up in order to compensate for businesses paying more to more employees (20 hr weeks = twice the number of employees needed).

It will never, ever happen.

Free energy is a pipe dream - should have happened around 1900 but JP Morgan killed Nikola Tesla's dream.

No taxes will also never happen. While the IRS should be scrapped, the whole government functions on taxes only, so income tax would have to be replaced with a 25-30% sales tax in order to bring in the same revenues.

No taxes is also a pipe dream.

Originally posted by psychederic
And i see that there must be different money : one for the contribution in the society ( and for us buying goods ).

What I had in mind was for a digital credit system (like credit cards) in which a certain amount of credit, based on your contribution to society, is placed onto your account. Rather than "spending" the credit itself to acquire necessities -- the value of the credit gradually diminishes based on time.

There would be perhaps 3 or more levels of card/account standards, such as credit cards that exist today, "gold", "platinum", etc.

As long as you contribute the minimum for the basic necessities you'd have a 'basic' card/account on which the credit will provide you with those basic necessities, everyday, for as long as there is credit on your account.

Of course, If your contribution to society is on a much higher level, then you'd also have the option of upgrading to a higher standard of credit, in which provides longer lasting access to basic necessities, and as well, access to "luxuries".

And so on.

[edit on 6/6/10 by Navieko]

reply to post by For(Home)Country


I don't think it is possible for humans to exist without some form of organised society. So yes, I do think it's possible. Your fathers will automatically form some sort of hierarchy that works to achieve goals for the society within a decade.

It is amazing how narrow-minded and brainwashed people are that they cannot imagine life differently. Anything is possible and to think that our society cannot be drastically improved upon is naive and blind. There is always a better way to do things. And we don't need taxes, if the "REAL" government had the control to produce their currency there would be no need for taxes. All our taxes go to pay the interest on the loans the government has received from the central bank (ie the Federal Reserve)

Nice idea on the credits, but you'd get lots of bleeding hearts complaining that the welfare state would be eradicated.

Of course, I like this idea, but people seem to have a huge sense of entitlement that they should still get something out of society even if they don't contribute.

People would prefer to sit on the couch rather than contribute to a utopia.

Originally posted by slane69

... the scarcity question it does exist, to think it doesn't isn't realistic.

If you want to design a better system, the idea of scarcity and allocation of that scarcity needs to be dealt with. Capitalism isn't great and it has major problems but it is the best system of dealing with scarcity and allocating resources.

The basics aren't scarce.

Free energy is all around us and is more than abundant all over the planet.

Free energy would go far towards making the 20 hour work week a reality.

There will always be people who are willing to work smarter or better than thier neighbor. Such people would be rewarded for thier efforts by being able to purchase improved services and products that many, who were happy with the basics, would not be able to.

What is the purpose of paying taxes into a system that refuses to operate by it's own rules?

Eliminate taxes - Taxes are an outdated concept that have no bearing on reality. The reality is that government can operate perfectly well without spending what it collects. America has been doing it for almost 100 years now.

Eliminating taxes would do wonders for improving economic growth.

What they (Those who live off of taxes) fear is that they will no longer be able to live off of a system that collects zero revenue. This is incorrect becuase as long as they have something of value to offer to the people, or even if they don't, the system will continue to operate and provide them with the basics.

They would be able to earn more based upon thier willingness to work harder and smarter just like the rest of us.

Effort = reward

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

we would have Free Energy , Medical Cure's by now if the Power that be AKA NWO , Illuminati , Freemason the Evil ones , Secret Society's ETC.... would Stop killing off the Scientist and Engineers that Had plausible Idea's or Have made the Ideas become a reality ! Dead Scientist Do tell tales !

I have Threaded but i was a Newb Poster at the time

Dead Scientists DO Tell Tales

www.stevequayle.com...

from ATS better than mine mine was a double thread LOL
www.abovetopsecret.com...

List of dead Scientist form Steve Quayle's site
Some Accident, some Murdered, some by a rapid diseased death stricken with cancer and die less than a year for example , a few with natural causes





www.stevequayle.com...

These are goofball ideas that could never fit into the world as we know it. The 20 hour work week is counter productive to the needs of society and the zero taxes (I read someone post just print the money) is beyond the pale. Just print the money ?!? inflation ring a bell? One need only look at the lax lifestyles shortened work weeks and ridiculous expectations that european nations have set up and look where they are today.....for the most part doomed. They are a blueprint in some respects to the OP's proposals and a shining example of how bad things can get.

brill

[edit on 6-6-2010 by brill]

The solution is really quite simple: cap wealth a $1,000,000,000.00 and mandatory economic retirement at that point.

If some folks are so addicted to wealth-building they can't handle having only $1 billion, well, too bad; they really need psychological counseling and rehab.

No one has a "right" to unlimited wealth.

Originally posted by brill

The 20 hour work week is counter productive to the needs of society and the zero taxes (I read someone post just print the money) is beyond the pale. Just print the money ?!?

I disagree the 40 hour work week is an outdated concept that does little to improve the needs of society. Look at all the wasted resources that are used getting to and from work.

Look at all the empty office buildings and stores. What purpose do these vacant buildings really serve?

Do we really need more plastic crap from 3rd world countries to fill up our landfills?

If all we are gonna do is waste the worlds resources on stupid stuff to make the time pass faster. let's do it at 1/2 the speed and enjoy life a little more.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by Freedom or Death

Originally posted by brill

The 20 hour work week is counter productive to the needs of society and the zero taxes (I read someone post just print the money) is beyond the pale. Just print the money ?!?

I disagree the 40 hour work week is an outdated concept that does little to improve the needs of society. Look at all the wasted resources that are used getting to and from work.

Look at all the empty office buildings and stores. What purpose do these vacant buildings really serve?

Do we really need more plastic crap from 3rd world countries to fill up our landfills?

If all we are gonna do is waste the worlds resources on stupid stuff to make the time pass faster. let's do it at 1/2 the speed and enjoy life a little more.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Have you considered that perhaps a lot of office locations are vacant due to things like telework, or the like? Just because there is a 40 hour work week doesn't imply there is waste, that is a personal observation on your part. There will always be waste but the business models in place would suffer as a result of reduced work week.

brill

Originally posted by avatar01

We should put '___' in the drinking water instead of fluoride.

Funny you should say that.

I was thinking just the other day that there is '___' already in the water supply.

Originally posted by Freedom or Death

Originally posted by avatar01

We should put '___' in the drinking water instead of fluoride.

Funny you should say that.

I was thinking just the other day that there is '___' already in the water supply.

Ok. That explains a lot then about this post.

Originally posted by slane69

I must be missing something, I am trying to understand. If the government takes none of your labor, who pays for the government provided basic benefits and education? Food, clothing, housing, human capital i.e. teachers, are all "scarce" resources.

If the government wants to provide these to everyone it would either have to 1) produce them 2) or buy them from the market.

Both of these options require resources, also called taxes, without taking any labor there would be no taxes to support these actions and the system would collapse.

The government would still control the money supply and would just print up whatever amount is needed to aquire these basic services.

Why must they collect money that they created in the first place, in order to redistribute it to another person?

Why not improve the efficiency of the system and just cut out the taxation part?

THere is only a scarcity of food, clothing and housing (And by the way there is no scarcity of these things in America) becuase we perceive that these things need to be scarce.

We have the technology to provide food (Through mass hydro-ponic farms) for the entire world. We have the technogy to provide clean, renewable energy to the entire world. We have the technology to provide basic shelter, clean water and sanitation to the entire world.

What it really comes down to is we really don't want to do anything, besides play Nintendo, watch TV and drive up to the store to buy more plastic crap from 3rd world countries to store in our garage until it comes time to throw them into the landfill. The 20 hr work week would allow more time for such activities by the way.


[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

reply to post by Navieko


I think we have to get rid of the old economy : and try to go further.

Let say : you think the opposite way in economy :
1) you get money (ok)
2) this money will loose its value if you don't use it, after X for a ratio of Y ( in the real economic world : the economy for human being ) ( today is opposite you need to get loan etc )

So : in this kind of society the market for houses should be VERY VERY low ( or null ): Why working 10 or 30 years of a house ? You just "need" it : and after your death this is for child or other people that need it.

A free economy where there is a "free place" for you to live, as been theorized by Silvio Gesell in 1916. ( and proudhon )

[edit on 6-6-2010 by psychederic]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by psychederic]

Originally posted by Freedom or Death
Funny you should say that.

I was thinking just the other day that there is '___' already in the water supply.

Your kidding, right?

Had '___' been in our water supply, I'm quite certain the need for this sort of thread would have been completely unnecessary in the first place. '___' in the water supply would work completely against TPTB, not for them!

Originally posted by randomname
most slaves have trouble adjusting after freedom. they are used to working hard for little pay that when they have free time they go stir crazy. the first generation will have it tough.

I think Americans are greedy for holding onto the concept of working for 40 hours a week.

If we do all the work what will other people do, sit around and wait for your labor to be redistrbuted to them by the government?

Give a little.

Work less and give 1/2 of your job to another person.

The scarcity that exists is that there isn't enough work to go around for all.

How bizarre.

We got this great big planet and we can't think of new jobs or things to do with our time?

We must be stupid.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

reply to post by Freedom or Death


Do you really have any concept of what money really is?

If the government can just print all they want to cover any situation, then why can't you? Or why can't I? Because that money is fake and worthless.

Try exchanging a dollar into a Euro if we can just print all we want. You might as well say everything will be free inside he US. If we think we have an immigrant problem now, what do you think will happen then?

We barely work. We can just print money.
And there are no taxes to allow the federal or state governments to secure the borders to keep anyone else out.

Even true socialism and communism doesn't work like this. You work. You work for the government. They get most of your money, then they provide you with what you need.
That is the theory anyways.

Your theory is a Utopian dream. It might work in a commune situation with under 50 people living in it. We live in a world of almost 6 billion people.

There are almost 200 countries. There would be absolutely no economic exchange between any country that adopted this psychobabble suggestion and any others who live "in the real world."

the goverment would never go for no taxes, they would rather eat thier own #.
As for the work hours, they wouldnt go for that either, work less get more, they lose alot something that would be unaccecptable to them

Free energy is possible, but hydro companies would lose billions, or trillions...so that is also unaccecptable to them, and freedom...well just as long as we "think" we are free that is okay

As long human beings are in controll, such a world will never exist, as it saddens me

The free economic system
* free money
o All money is issued for a limited period by constant value (neither inflation, nor deflation).
o Long-term saving requires investment in bonds or stocks.
* free land
o All land is owned by public institutions and can only be rented, not purchased (see also Henry George).
* Free Trade (for innovation, in a separate money )
o Free Trade has long been a mainstream position now, but the anti-globalization movement largely opposes it.

I add that basic public ressources : MUST be owned by public institutions. ( this must not go on an economic market : what human need SHOULD NOT BE TRADE IN WALLSTREET , or share in big firm with their trusts )

I add that the "free trade" is the market for innovation. In my vision, if you want to get rid of systemic crisis : just separate TOTALLY this innovation / investment economy, from the economy for the real people.

Thank you for reading.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by psychederic]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by psychederic]