(Solution) Free Energy + 20 Hr Work Wk + Zero Taxes = Freedom

someone said getting rid of money would take geniuses. to think of money took geniuses, true. but thats because its nearly the greatest scam ever. nearly. but i'm under the impression reasoning like that is why mankind hasn't gotten anywhere. 90% of our technical progress in less than 1% of our existence on earth? america the great was founded allegedly by normal men and women not geniuses. we can accomplish anything by just doing it. "how this works is, you do the thing that you're scared of, and you gain the courage after." forget what movie thats from.

taxes? we don't need no stinking taxes! how much is government and state payroll? you mean to tell me we can't build roads? we're too feeble to run space programs and sewage plants and conduct international matters? last i checked it was us. now they've quite brilliantly coerced us into believing we can't do it ourselves. we need them? no my friends, this country is supposedly great because they need us!

if we worked for ourselves for gold or valuables or services, even paying for any optional things such as roads and sewage and police which we'd opt into, you're correct. the number of hours we'd have to work would be appallingly low. appalling when put into relation with how many we pump out now. and these real "taxes" would fund so much more than now. this is what we (those of us here american) have been hoodwinked with.

but wait, none of you are safe anyway cause if your society is debt based then we could hang out, cause yalls r my brutherz hehe

and don't get me started on free energy. its sold as a dream or just beyond our reach but its here and getting better. people act like those who pumped oil can't learn how to build turbines or panels. so many lies everywhere... and whos idiot assesment was it that only 2 billion people would live off the suns energy? i'd like that link to see who he works for. i'm calling shenanigans on that horse hockey. what power percentage panels? where? how many? thats such a load cause i can live on 10'x10' 20% with my girlfriend forever and sell energy back. what happens when they absorb 90 or 100%? they've just accomplished 70% or some crazy number. don't hate. don't be scared. it's coming



peace

Just an aside...

The only thing man ever did was remove himself from the food chain.

There is nothing wrong with natural elimination,and because he has removed himself from natural selection,he fails to be eliminated at a reasonable rate.

There is nothing wrong with balance,a bunch of people don't have to die...

We don't need alternative energy,the perfect source of all we have needed to survive has always been there.

And as far as 7 billion people driving SUV's at 90mph,chucking fast food wrappers from their windows?,already happening,just not that many yet.

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders


I disagree with you that natural state of things is anarchy, in a way. True anarchy is always a temporary solution, until the most powerful force in a society ends this anarchy and establishes the only true natural system - dictatorship. Because that is what "survival of the fittest" truly means.

There will be less freedom in an anarchist society than in current one.

On the other hand, minarchism is a plausible system, and many anarchists are in fact minarchists. Maybe that is what you advocate?

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by mav0360


Everything was more localized once,separate townships maintained their own infrastructure in the past,but now it has become centralized.

It is true that those who make decisions are not concerned,the local greedy politicians tell them what is needed by their localities for their own gain,and the gain of those who elected them.

Nevermind those stupid peasants who have to wade through the mess they have made,...

This country is a joke.

reply to post by mav0360

I find it humorous to see the locals here all excited about having city sewer and water hooked up out here in the sticks,they already had everything they needed,and are just relinquishing more control to others.

They already have septic systems,and are not thinking ahead,realizing that eventually they will have to pay someone to dismantle them.

They are not considering the fact that they will be paying taxes forever for the services,and the service provider doesn't guarantee anything.

They surrender a piece of their freedom for not having to be responsible,as a septic system only costs a few hundred dollars every few years to have pumped out,and city water and sewer will raise their taxes that much every year forever.

....

reply to post by slane69

The communism-vs-capitalism argument is someone else's argument.

There is something somewhere in between that would work better than either.

Extremism,communism,capitalism,catholicism,racism,sexism,terrorism..ism-ism-ism-ism-ism-ism.

Isms are almost always extremes.

The tree that does not bend,breaks.

yes sir. we're wards of the state now. unable even in our opinions, to speak on our own behalfs.

we need something done, but we're too weak or feeble to do it, so we pass legislations and create agencies. what do those agencies do? they hire us to do what we origionally were made to believe we couldn't!!! we still do it all!

what in whomevers idea of gods name are they even there for?

it's already us. they're just palms getting greased

reply to post by mav0360

I have solar panels too,I use so little power that I don't even have them connected right now.

If you do not disconnect from the grid entirely,you are still hooked into their system,see if you can disconnect completely,you can't, code enforcement will come down on you like a ton of bricks.

Check it out,bet ya can't.

Originally posted by Maslo

2. Working less and making more? I somehow fail to see the connection.
Allowing people to work less when they do not need lot of money, making the system more flexible, and ending current exploitation of employees (Foxconn..) are the way to go. But 20 hour work week is not enough in many cases.

I say let the people decide how much they want to work, but working less will always mean making less.

Depends what you define as work...

Do you think creating gardens is not work? It is work for the rest of your life if you want to...Taking care of animals and to design nature accordingly to the human creativity, means constant awakening...
In a world without stress - Work would be much more efficient. Workers won't be ANGRY at each other because they feel they WORK more than others..And that they feel the need to punish.

Today we live in a world - If you fail to see the absolute meaning in working for money - Others have learned through the school system, and through punishment by others on them, to hate and having fun to see people go down mentally, while they themselves rise... You don't see the pain inside of others... Because the system tells you to give pain to others, if they fail to live up to the "standards"..

Who is really the cynical? these days?

-
In my opinion - People are not themselves any more - they are part of the money system, and they cannot see the evil they emit, because it is seen as good... But in fact it is without soul...(a program)

And the reason people are angry at others who think there is a point in a free society - They live in delusion unknowingly killing the planet in Fear... Fear of not having money. Fear of falling outside the herd instinct..To be an outsider is NOT easy - You fail to understand the concept of passion and hobbies.

And your Gobbermint loves that..
They love to see people hate each other.. IMHO..
I know they smile on TV - And there seems to be a culture - But it is not reality...!

I am a hated person - Because I fail to see the connection between the system and nature... But I definitely see the connection between man and nature..

---
People quote all the times when the word of freedom failed - The 60's was a fail...
Well - Most of the ideas was destroyed by the monetary system - and fear...

And many people say - human nature is to kill each other. Again - You fail to understand they where under order, and they where brought up in fear... - And that money don't grow on trees...

Apples do...

I Am the apple man...Basically.
Hated by man - loved by nature. And this is not whining about it, I look death strait into the eyes - I know I will die and perhaps leave something to make people recognize the stuff within...

I have been on this path my whole life - And still people can't get over it...They feel they must hate, they give in to hate.. And whine In blindness that NOTHING is possible...And say that people like me are whiners...

Well - In all secrecy - I call them Robots...(don't tell anyone)

I still believe though.. But I don't believe in the monetary system - Because it is a fantasy-world that will keep destroying the planet till the day there is no hope left... Then maybe - you will understand...

Just Maybe.

reply to post by mav0360
Originally,money was created in order to make it easier to carry around,from place to place,than toting around your years harvest of,say,corn..

It has it's place if there is something of substance it represents,it was originally created to prove one actually had something of substance in their possession.

A certificate kinda thang,a warehouse receipt.





[edit on 6-6-2010 by chiponbothshoulders]

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders


really? that sucks! haha they're freakin smart. a worthy adversary indeed. i still love this country though. these days the idea a little more than the reality

it really needs to go back to "of the people, by the people, and for the people." if, of course, it ever was

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders

heck yeah that why i said gold, goods, and services

and oxford commas

reply to post by Freedom or Death

Bout time someone could see the selfishness angle.

I think refrigeration has a lot to do with how people act today.

Back in the old days,if you didn't share with your neighbor,you could look forward to watching what you produced in excess rotting away in the "back 40".

I watched a warehouse burn down in the town where I am from,it burned for over a week,it was completely full of butter and dairy products of all sorts,but mostly butter.

I could not help but wonder how many people were going hungry while some guy had the things they needed not to be hungry,stored away,waiting for a better price to sell it at on the stock market.

There is no real scarcity,it is only contrived to drive prices up.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders


There is nothing wrong with natural elimination,and because he has removed himself from natural selection,he fails to be eliminated at a reasonable rate.



We do that by going to war.( not that it's a good thing)





[edit on 6-6-2010 by SSimon]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by SSimon]

reply to post by Ram


I agree. My example was about money, where working less will in fact mean making less. It is possible to work less and make more - maybe not money, but not living a stressful life, doing what you like, spending more time with your loved ones is making more for many people.

The system should be somehow set up to let both the workoholics and "lazy people" live in dignity and harmony. Because when an employee has to work for 50 or more hours a week (Foxconn..), while many unemployed are doing nothing and are ready to take his place, you know something is wrong.

reply to post by Ram

I can relate,I have a lot of hate spewed my way from people in cars,who resent the amount of freedom I enjoy riding my bicycle around....

After all,if I have time to ride my bike all hours of the day or night,any day of the week,I must be a low life jobless dirtbag....

Or maybe well off enough where I don't have to work,or maybe just really,really thrifty on perpetual working vacation.

People tend to think the worst of others....

Or maybe it is an expression of their resentment of my freedom,which they do not even realize they feel,like the way people kill animals "just cuz they can",those critters may be parasite infested,covered in fleas and ticks,living and dying at the whim of their environment.....

But they're freer than you and me.

reply to post by Maslo
Working in this world for others amounts to humiliation,I have had many jobs in my life,and the most rewarding one was digging ditches by hand.

I was treated respectfully because I was willing to do the work,and was able to do it,and willing to do it for less than anyone else.

I am a qualified surgical technician (yup,scrub nurse),but never really pursued it because of the terrible treatment,and requirements during the probationary period,which basically stole my whole life away.

I don't care about money,I realize that chasing my tail is a waste of time,I don't wanna drop dead while chasing my tail.

T'would look pretty foolish now,wouldn't it?,"while chasing his tail,the dog dropped dead",silly dog....

Woof.

Originally posted by abecedarian
Is it necessary to have two, simultaneous threads about primarily the same topic?

We might achieve `free` energy

We might achieve a 20 hour work-week

We might even achieve no taxes

..... but simultaneous threads will always be with us .


=========================================

1) Free energy
2) 20 Hour work week
3)No taxes


1) Free energy will surely require infrastructure and some maintenance .
no.1 will need no.3 to pay for it.

2)
In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell
"The road to happiness and prosperity lies in an organized diminution of work"

3) Some contribution may be necessary for communal projects/services etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




[edit on 6-6-2010 by UmbraSumus]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by UmbraSumus]

So basically, you are promoting laziness and freeloading while at the same time advocating creating and using alternative energy forms.
I assume you also mean nuclear fission instead of nuclear fusion. Nuclear fusion is still in the experimental phase. And is still consuming more energy to produce than it is worth to make it put out.

While the potential is there to make nuclear fusion a reality, with people only working 20 hours a week on the problem, it's probably gonna take several hundred years to actually make that a reality.

The same with all the wind, solar and hydroelectric power stations. There aren't near enough power stations and if we all sit on our butts all day long, we ain't gonna accomplish nothing and build new ones.

By the way, how do you propose to pay for all of this? No one in the private sector is going to have enough money by being lazy to make this happen, and if we aren't paying taxes, the government sure as hell isn't gonna have the money to pay for further implementation of this.

We might as well all go back to living in caves and drinking water straight out of a river or lake for our water. Give up all of our possessions. No TV. No power in general at all. No internet to spend your time on. At 3 in the AM when your power goes out, who is going to fix it? Sorry dude, my 20 hours have already been worked this week. It isn't my problem....

Oh yeah. With around 6 billion now on the planet, where is the food gonna come from? Do you have any concept of how many hours a day a farmer, or cattle rancher puts in each day so you have enough food to eat?

I think you mean actually YOU just want to sit around all day starting multiple threads on the same topic on ATS all day while others do all the work and support you.

Sure, I think we all would like to work less and play more. But that is not how society works. Ignore my earlier comment about living in caves. They spent their WHOLE days hunting and gathering for food and just basically just trying to survive. They had no time to screw off.


[edit on 6-6-2010 by webpirate]

Gee,I don't suppose a 4 hour working day for all would remedy our unemployment issues here and now,Eh?.

Traffic problems are cause by those who benefit from them...

(-there would have to be some improvements made regarding public transportation,but that is one of the first things to be slashed during hard economic times,since those in power just can't relate to the fact that real people may not drive or fly around....)

Technology,and it's implementation in the workplace to save people from doing laborious manual labor should make everyone's life easier.

People are just not mature enough to see using technology to benefit others,they are too selfish to comprehend anything that approaches true freedom...

Because they are so selfish,and enslaved in the system as they are,they refuse to allow anyone to go free.

That is why the homeless are frowned upon,they are more free than those happy frowning people driving around in those motorized recliners with their windows closed,and closed minds.

OOh,good name for a band "Closed Minds In Paradise".

The only real freedom is death,but this doesn't have to be hell on earth as it is for so many.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by chiponbothshoulders]