Turkish PM mulls Gaza Strip visit , says Lebanese newspaper

reply to post by TheCoffinman


Israel only reason to fight is for their own survival.And allow me to beleive
that this is more powerful reason than fighting for someone else.Because
in the end...Turkey, if Erdogan pushes it, will fight for palestinians.

Yes, turkey have more planes, and more soldiers, and more warships and
their army is on par with other NATO armies.However, i can safely assume
that considering the lenght of borders of Israel and of Turkey, israeli
planes have far more bigger chances to enter Turkey air space and do
their job.Turkey planes, on the other hand, have only a small portion from
where they can penetrate the israeli air space, and its easily to assume
that Israel have a better AA coverage on their borders than Turkey.

But this is not the point, because if there will be a sole Israel vs Turkey,
Israel will be the winner.The point is what Hezbollah, Hamas an Syria will
do if SHTF between Turkey and Israel?
Its logical to assume they will instajump against Israel...and at that point,
Israel will face a bigger threat.So big, that they will unleash everything
against their foes.

And since in 2006 Israel only used 10% of their capabilities...i for one,
based on their combat experience (turks last combat experience was in
WWII, the Cyprus invasion in '74 was just landing and grab some land)
and multiply Lebanon '06 with 10, will only hope that anti-Israel coallition
will surender asap...or face utter destruction.

reply to post by Recollector


if turkey goes to war with israel, it will not be just the 2 countries.
the us will get pulled in and so will other moslem nations like iran.

Originally posted by DangerDeath

Food, school books and utilities, cement, medicine...

You have a huge blind spot there in your eyes..

The goal of blockade is genocide.

Keep counting rockets. They all coming from Israel.

I am not defending the blockade but the reasons behind it are not simple. Of course, Israel say that aid gets through to Gaza, although I would prefer to believe the UN and the WTO that it does not. The blockade in this situation punishes the population of Gaza because Hamas exists and the armed conflict between Hamas and Israel persists.

The goal of the blockade is to weaken Hamas, to prevent the importation of arms which would be used against Isreal and to free Gilad Shalit. These are stated objectives. The goal is not genocide.

Rockets flow both ways. Suicide bombers are one way.

Regards

Edit to correct typo

[edit on 5/6/2010 by paraphi]

Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by DangerDeath

Food, school books and utilities, cement, medicine...

You have a huge blind spot there in your eyes..

The goal of blockade is genocide.

Keep counting rockets. They all coming from Israel.

I am not defending the blockade but the reasons behind it are not simple. Of course, Israel say that aid gets through to Gaza, although I would prefer to believe the UN and the WTO that it does not. The blockade in this situation punishes the population of Gaza because Hamas exists and the armed conflict between Hamas and Israel persists.

The goal of the blockade is to weaken Hamas, to prevent the importation of arms which would be used against Isreal and to free Gilad Shalit. These are stated objectives. The goal is not genocide.

Rockets flow both ways. Suicide bombers are one way.

Regards

Edit to correct typo

[edit on 5/6/2010 by paraphi]

The reason for blockade is genocide. Same as, for instance, siege of Leningrad. You can always pull out some argument like "rockets", but Israel is counting on those rockets and doing everything to NOT destroy Hamas, or it will run out of excuses for imposing this cannibalistic blockade.

Israel, from the very beginning, denied existence of Palestine and Palestinians, and it sticks to the plan. Israel has been growing ever since it was established. At one moment it possessed the whole Sinai peninsula. They didn't mean to retreat. But were forced to.

I understand that Israelis or Jews, want to have their own state, but must it be on the graves of other nation? They have done everything to antagonize everyone in this world but those who have conceived them in their criminal minds to be like this.

Fascist state is not a solution for this problem. It must go down.

Originally posted by letscit
reply to post by Recollector

 

do you think israel can bomb turkey without turkey bombing back? they can and they would. they also have some mighty firepower and is natos #2 military behind the u.s.

The US is part of NATO, just like Britain and most of Europe. Without the US, the rest of NATO is still the most powerful alliance. With the US nothing on earth can surpass it, not even a China/Russia alliance. Nobody will go to war with NATO, except terrorists. Although Israel are behaving like terrorist regimes, so there you go...

Originally posted by FuGGer
reply to post by Recollector

 

if turkey goes to war with israel, it will not be just the 2 countries.
the us will get pulled in and so will other moslem nations like iran.

The problem is if Iran/Syria backs up Turkey, that will prevent the US from ever being on Turkey's side. I think if Israel are the aggressors then the US would have to back up Turkey, but Iran getting involved gives them an excuse to kick Turkey out of NATO and side with Israel.

Israel seem to be great at shooting themselves in the foot, but I don't think Iran will be as stupid as to get involved.

Although Israel could force them into the action by use of their Dolphin class nuclear-armed subs parked off Iran's coast, and thus keep US backing. Maybe the Obama regime is plotting this with the Israeli's all along.

reply to post by Recollector


As others have rightly said, Turkey outguns Israel in every facet - Planes, tanks, troops and ships (especially ships - Turkey has proper Warships, not the suped up gunboats the IDF use).

Turkey is NATO's second largest Army and 3rd largest Navy and Air Force. Israel is what?

If you honestly think the IDF can beat the Turkish, I'd happily take a bet with you on that. I think it will teach Israel some humility to actually fight a worthwhile enemy.

Originally posted by Recollector
And since in 2006 Israel only used 10% of their capabilities...i for one,
based on their combat experience (turks last combat experience was in
WWII, the Cyprus invasion in '74 was just landing and grab some land)
and multiply Lebanon '06 with 10, will only hope that anti-Israel coallition
will surender asap...or face utter destruction.

No actually, you're quite wrong. Turkey has extensive combat experience going back decades and regulary makes forays into Northern Iraq to fight the Kurdish rebels there, as well as on their own territory.

They also carry out regular exercises with other NATO nations, so their training is up to scratch.

Turkey is a sleeping giant, I wouldn't want to wake it up myself.

reply to post by john124


The US will most likely, in the event of a Turk-Israeli spat, do exactly what they did in the Falklands. Sit on their hands and play the diplomacy game, as they want to maintain cordeal relations with both. Any conflict between Turkey and Israel will likely be brief and confined to a small area, so not worth US or NATO involvement.

However, that depends entirely on the manner on which either Israel or Turkey initiate any conflict.

Also, I doubt Iran will get involved, that's just a silly notion and if Israel tries to force them with a nuclear strike from their little German subs, then the world will forever be against them, so unless their really stupid, it is worth their while.

IDF women ready for action

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fd8b6a56e123.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4f1b1ec8f90e.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a92c5b687be7.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6630f37db9d3.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/136c09fd2ec8.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by john124


Hmmm...

I could think of worse people to kick my door in, that's for sure..

Good looking they may be, but the nation they fight for has very questionable morals.

Incidentally, does the IDF allow women on the front line?

reply to post by DangerDeath


While I am not an Israeli apologist nor am I a supporter of some of the policies they have introduced and uphold – the settlements in the Occupied Territories being one such area, I do think the simplification of the issues does not help. Israel is not a facist state.

The reason for blockade is not genocide. The siege of Leningrad is not a parallel to what is happening in Gaza. The blockade is all about Hamas and the politics thereabouts which have a direct implication to the locals in Gaza which is intolerable. It about the continued threat to Israel from Hamas rockets, terrorism (suicide bombers, inc. child bombers), the weakening of Hamas and Gilad Shalit.

Israel has got to where it is because of conflict and the refusal to relinquish lands, much against repeated calls for them to do so – including many UN SC resolutions et al…

I agree that they have done much to antagonize the local Palestinian populations and the surrounding nations. They lack sensitivity and empathy which you would have thought their history would have given them a unique insight into having.

However, in context of the last sixty years, they have been the target for numerous aggressive ventures - both ways. They continue to be diplomatically isolated by most of the Muslim world including the refusal to accept their right to exist as a nation. All this is blackened by the blabbering of those who want Israel destroyed e.g. Hamas (Hamas Covenant, Article 7) and that nut-job Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (“anybody who recognises Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury”).

I am merely trying to point out that it takes two to tango. Israel has blood on its hands, but so does everyone else in the vicinity. While I don’t agree with much of what Israel does, it is often a knee jerk reaction to unfolding events and manipulative politics from all around.

I find much of the hatred against Israel on ATS unresearched subjectivity. We all talk about "propaganda", but I just wonder what some people are reading!

Regards

news.antiwar.com...

Turkish officials have been suggesting that they would dispatch a military escort with future aid flotillas to the Gaza Strip in response to the massacre of aid workers on board one of their ships by Israeli commandos earlier this week. The scope of the operation was never disclosed.


Turkish PM ErdoganBut now it looks like this may come to fruition in the near term and in very high profile fashion, as security sources within Turkey are reporting that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is not only planning to dispatch the Navy on the next flotilla, but that he is considering accompanying them personally.

Israeli officials dismissed the possibility of Erdogan visiting the Gaza Strip with the flotilla, describing it as unrealistic. The United States has reportedly asked Erdogan to delay the aid operation in light of rising tensions with Israel.

I fi were a Erodgan and i was taking this gaza thing as serious as Erodgan is, i'd be insulted that Israel called it "unrealistic" it would just make me wanna go even more... GO TURKEY!!! and yes, Turkey is very up to date and combat tested. this isnt the ottomans of world war I were talking about here. the turkish armed forces are more than capable of defeating Israel.

"but Israel has kicked a$$ in every war its been in defeating many amries on several fronts at once!" yes true but those armies were poorly trained, poorly equipped, poorly led and fight mainly with thier backs turned. they're arabs and im not saying they cant be good soldiers, its just for the most part they arent. The Turks are turks, not arabs, different people, different fighting spirit and different leadership...

reply to post by paraphi


If Israel wants to get Hamas, they have to cooperate with Palestinians, that would be easy then, because Hamas has imposed itself over Palestinians. But, they don't want to recognize Palestinians. Sorry. You are wrong. So they go against Hamas, Hamas is mingled with Palestinians and uses them as a shield, and Palestinians get killed and starved and exterminated. That's what Israel is doing, that is a fact, and no nice talk will prove otherwise.