The 40 hour work week conspiracy

reply to post by AidanK

the unemployed would be put to work, those that are just sitting around drawing welfare would be forced to work.
and well, maybe we could take some quality time and find a spot in the work force for many of the "disabled" as well as the elderly....

sure we'd still have to financially help some, but there would still be alot of savings within the unemployment, welfare, hud, and other social programs...

I would divert that savings right beck to the companies, through tax cuts, credits ect, so they could afford to give the employees a decent wage for the reduced hours.

Originally posted by Looking_Glass

40+ hour work weeks are pointless and ridiculous considering our technology level.

The entire point of human advancement is to make our lives less difficult and the work less time consuming.

We have all become slaves to an outdated concept, that is limiting the full potential of the human race.

Originally posted by jpmail

If people worked less hours they would be happer meaning you get more work out of them I still doubt it will be double but a happy worker is a productive worker.

There would probably be less accidents and lawsuits in the workplace as well.

Originally posted by abecedarian

So, let me see if I have this correct:

1) Cut hours in half.
2) Double salaries so employees take home as much as they used to.
3) Double employees so companies make as much product as they used to.
4) Prices for goods remains the same.

Explain how that works again?

Current plan
Employee A works 40 hrs per week and produces 4 widgets and earns $4
Soon to be employee B is on welfare and recieves state benifits of $2
Employer sells 4 widgets for $40

Employee A is unhappy, stressed out and is more likely to die of a heart attack and suffer social problems (Like divorce, bankruptcy, pay child support, commit crimes and be incarcerated, become dependant on drugs or alchol, etc) which cost the state $4 to deal with.

New plan
Employee A works 20 hrs a week and produces 3 widgets and earns $4
Employee B works 20 hrs a week and produces 3 widgets and earns $4
Neither employee A or B pay taxes which increases thier take home pay by 25%
Employer has 6 widgets to sell for $60

Employer must pay out $4 more, however the employer has increased productivity by 33%. Since productivity has increased there is no need to increase prices. Employer should be happy with this because they are making more money than in the current plan.

Because employee A and B no longer pay taxes thier buying power has also increased by 25%.

In addition, becuase the government is no longer redistributing earnings from employee A to employee B there is really no reason for to continue collecting taxes. The government is free to do it's own thing without having to bother the citizens. They can print up as much money as they need and implement whatever social programs that benifit the citizens as they deem fit.

Employee A, Employee B, Government worker A and Business owner A all enjoy the benifits of improved social services and employee A and B are free to work less and earn more.

This will likely lead to new business growth as employee A and B now have both more money and time to spend on hobbies and vacations.

It would also lead to fewer social problems for the state to deal with. (i.e. little Johnny showing up at the school playground with an AK-47 wacked out on crystal meth or his little sister showing up on the streets as a prostitute spreading STD's or uncle freddy being incarcerated after fleeing a bank robbery in a stolen car and causing a high speed crash on the freeway, resulting in an innocent being paralized)

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

The ideal work week is like that in the medical industry as a nurse, mri/sonography tech

3 (12) hr days

4 days off

Pay

$50-100,00 with excellent benefits-medical-leave time-etc


+Real dental insurance...not just a cheesy discount plan.

Root canal- 150 bucks not 600-900
Crown 150 bucks not 600-900

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Freedom or Death

Originally posted by virgom129

People need to unite against the "money men", Rothchilds etc..

This is what we have now.

Socialism for the rich, Capitalism for the poor.

People need to get mad and they need to unite to crush Capitalism.

We need Socialism for the poor and Capitalism for the rich.

Unite against the money men, yes, but nobody needs socialism. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Why do we need capitalism?

It doesn't work for most people.

Explain to me why we the people don't need socalism. Wall street, the banks and the corporate fat cats don't seem to have a problem accpeting free money.

Capitalism has lead to the corruption of America. Washington is under the influence of evil spirits and demons.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

... the 20 hour work week idea is stupid. You're basically wanting everyone in the country to work part-time and employ twice as many people.

At one time the employers of America would have said the same as you have said about the 40 hour work week.

It's a free country if you want to work more than 20 hours go right ahead. If you don't want to hire more employees then don't. But for the majority the 20 hour work week is a better plan.

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

reply to post by Freedom or Death


I am all for a shorter work schedule. Our society really made life too diffiuclt for the average person. Prices need to lower and we need to depend less on that green paper.
Prices needs to be based on people's income not the other way around. We should be able to enjoy the lives we are given at the time. Sure we come around again but I believe it is best to enjoy every life. (Yes I believe in reincarnation.)

Originally posted by Maslo

Real problem is the lack of flexibility in current system.

Ideally we would all be independant contractors and recieve our benifits from the state instead of the employer.

Originally posted by Moonguy

Originally posted by AidanK

We have the technology to decrease the 40 hr work week to a 20 hour work week, without a theoretical loss in quality of life or income.

All it would take is a congressional act to enact such a scheme.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

So would this mean a doubling of wages? I just can't see employers doing this. Pay twice as much for half the work just doesn't make sense for the employer. I would love it I could work just 20 hours per week for the same pay but it's just not going to happen. Nice thought ====

This concept is an Idea I realized that could benefit humanity and the economy! there would be no or almost no unemployment BUT there is another piece to the puzzle!

Its the COST of living, the cost of living has been artificially inflated to prevent people from working 20 hours a week and then spend some quality time to better themselves.

The KEY element to lower dramatically the cost of living is FREE ENERGY, 90% of the cost of good in the world is related to...OIL!!! get free energy and you lower the cost of good by 90% think about it! free transportation! free heating, free cooling, free light, free manufacturing, free production, free testing, the only cost would be labor!

There for if we get the free energy device = new civilization and better overall quality of life!, including the 5 -10-15-20 hours a week works schedule!

I agree Moon, Free energy is the key.

Free energy, 20 hr work week and zero taxes = Freedom

Why anyone would really oppose such a scheme is beyond me


[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Freedom or Death

Originally posted by AidanK

So would this mean a doubling of wages?

Yes wages would have to double, but prices would not increase because productivity would double.

Inflation would remain in check.

I just can't see employers doing this. Pay twice as much for half the work just doesn't make sense for the employer.

It would make sense to employers if they understood that thier profits would double because productivity would double.

Un co-operative employers could be forced to capitulate if they refused to see the logic in the argument.

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Increased productivity rarely equals increased profits. If you are selling something only so many people want, can afford, need, can use, will become aware of...producing twice as many will just load you up with expensive inventory and a limitless supply of expensive stored goods.

Well in that particular case it sounds like prices might decrease as productivity increases.

If you are a service provider, you will have twice as much productivity how?

Improved efficiency

The major cost to a service provider is in office support, transportation, advertising and complying with regulations and taxation authorities. Why every local municipalty must insisit on thier own little special sub-set of rules, taxes and fees is beyond me.

Technologal improvements would decrease the amount of time wasted on the beck end of transactions.

Better engineering of products on the front end would also increase productivity. Seems like products these days are designed to fail.

It's kinda like how the anti-virus companies have two divisions: Department of Virus production and the Department of Anti-virus protection or like how Goldman sachs has two departments: One for selling stuff and another for buying the same stuff.

What we're not stupid enough already, now we have to make sure that stuff fails so that we can make money?

Why not embrace the 85 hour work week and everyone ride a bike to work?

Explain how this would work in a restaurant, bar, grocery store, pharmacy, etc.

There would be a learning curve to every unique situation, but it would all work itself out in the end and if it didn't that particular industry might disappear.

Pretty much every job I have ever had would go bankrupt by doubling productivity because there is no mechanism that would coincidentally double the customer need.

Marketing and Sales (The creators of illusions) does wonders to increase customer needs and wants.

Don't you think people in China and India would like to drink bottled water or drive SUV's just like Americans?

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

The point of a business is to make money, not employ the unemployed. If we cut the 40 hr week to 20 hrs and employ twice as many people, the overhead of managing the HR end of the employees doubles..therefore the cost of operating goes up...how can you not raise your selling price and not cover your costs.

It is cheaper to have a 40hr schedule with one person than 2x20hr shifts with 2 people. My costs for medical, dental, vacation all go up. Plus it takes the HR person twice a slong to process twice a smany peoples payroll and benefits.

$0 hour weeks are too much...are you for real? I work 50+ hours a week in management and also have a farm, sell firewood in the fall, and livestock in the spring.Somedays I work from 5:30am till 8pm...but the rewards are great too.... have a farm, investments, and a place at the coast. And yes, I spend a lot of time with family and enjoy my life.

Socialism, you get what you get and nothing more....I want more for my family and myself...captalism works for me. I will probably retire at 62, my daughter is in college, and if the oil spill doesn't wipeout everything...will retire to the beaches of NC.

I don't understand why so many don't like the opportunities laid out in front of them. Things are hard, but nothing is free and you have to work for it. My brother and I both got new jobs in the last 3 months, and we weren't unemployed...I guess my parents that grew up dirt poor during the Depression did a good job in this oppressive capitalists society.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone

The point of a business is to make money, not employ the unemployed.

If we cut the 40 hr week to 20 hrs and employ twice as many people, the overhead of managing the HR end of the employees doubles..therefore the cost of operating goes up...how can you not raise your selling price and not cover your costs.

Efficiecies in HR managment would decrease your cost. Remember thier doing what you are doing at the same time. Cutting costs and increasing productivity.

It is possible to not raise your cost by offering more value.

You give more stuff away and you cover it with increased productivity and decreased costs.

I don't understand why so many don't like the opportunities laid out in front of them. Things are hard, but nothing is free and you have to work for it.

I used to think like you did.

Yeah Go Capitalism

Now I've switched sides.

No one hates opportunities, what they hate is stupidity.

We've had our fill of it.

1099 everyone, government provides all benifits.

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

"Give stuff away and cover it with increased productivity"...2x20 schedules =1x40hr schedule. Where is the increase in productivity? 40 hrs =40 hrs.

And give away free energy...where does the free solar cells come from? Who digs the free geothermal wells? Who produces and builds the free water turbines and installs them? Who provides the free maintainance and replacement parts?

What employer is going to double salaries and pay 40 hrs wages for 20 hrs worth of work? Then double his/her payroll and overhead to get 40 hrs worth of production?

If you produce 400 units in 40 hrs with one person, why get 2 people with 2x20 hr shifts to produce 400 units? If production is going to go up...how? With robotics, computers, more efficient production...guess what, now we have one person producing 400 units in 20 hrs. My costs go down and I don't need the other person... market...supply and demand.

... if the market dictates 400 units, then that is all I need...if demand goes up, then I hire another person for a 40 hr shift...not 2 more people for 2x20 hr shifts...unless I can do it with a reduction in wages and classify them as part-time.... which defeats the whole premise of your 20hr week theory.

A good example is Walmart... hardly any full time 40hr week people there. Do you really want that model of industry?

i am all for the 20hr work week - and it will increase productivity, i know that if i am getting paid by the job i will get it done faster, more efficiently and correctly; where as if i am paid by the hour i will "milk it" and take frequent "safety meetings" and a "long lunch"......

and i usually operate on the barter system, bring me what u want fixed and pay me with a case of beer, some herbs and ciggs and we got a deal!!!!

Gratitude

Good message

5 of 7 days in the week is drastically disproportionate ratio of work to family, or free time

Of course we are thankful to have jobs...rather, to do something and receive income

The system requires labor for basic survival; essentially amounting to indentured servants

Allowing the system to exist in the assumed absence of better alternatives is acquiescence

If the world is to change - we must change

We can silence the sirens of servitude by simply sowing the seeds of LOVE

This is two-fold...
everywhere there are people and Nature we can express LOVE
and anywhere there is soil, seed and water, we can grow our food
LIVE FREE ~ BE FREE


∞LOVE∞

Originally posted by Freedom or Death
Well in that particular case it sounds like prices might decrease as productivity increases.

I am not sure you are understanding what you are saying.

If I now have twice as much inventory but the same customer base, how would lowering prices help me?

You now have me paying twice as much, making twice as much, selling for half, and only moving the same number of units. Explain to me how this does anything other than destroy any company that would follow this insane practice.

Improved efficiency

Means nothing with no increase in customer base. Maybe you can explain to me how efficiency combats overpaying, overproduction, and no increase in sales.

The major cost to a service provider is in office support, transportation, advertising and complying with regulations and taxation authorities. Why every local municipalty must insisit on thier own little special sub-set of rules, taxes and fees is beyond me.

What kind of service provider are you talking about exactly? Do you know what the service industry actually means?

Technologal improvements would decrease the amount of time wasted on the beck end of transactions.

Really? How so. At least one example would have been nice. What technological advances will help the local family restaurants increase sales again?

Better engineering of products on the front end would also increase productivity. Seems like products these days are designed to fail.

That has nothing to do with anything being discussed here.

It's kinda like how the anti-virus companies have two divisions: Department of Virus production and the Department of Anti-virus protection or like how Goldman sachs has two departments: One for selling stuff and another for buying the same stuff.

Not really keen on what service industry means at all, are ya?

What we're not stupid enough already, now we have to make sure that stuff fails so that we can make money?

ok.

Why not embrace the 85 hour work week and everyone ride a bike to work?

ok.

There would be a learning curve to every unique situation, but it would all work itself out in the end and if it didn't that particular industry might disappear.

So you have no answer at all but took the time to reply? Yes, I am sure people will stop needing food sometime real soon.

Marketing and Sales (The creators of illusions) does wonders to increase customer needs and wants.

That only applies to certain areas of the economy. Advertising does not make more people need basic needs. They need them regardless. The drug store two towns over is not going to advertise in any manner that will draw people from this town to drive past two drug stores to patronize that one. No matter how flashy the ads are.

Would they be able to halve their prices? Well sure, all they have to do is get the people that make the things they sell to halve their prices first. Easy enough, right? I am sure the drug, cigarette, cosmetic industries are dying to cut their prices in half. After all, after they pay people twice as much to work half as often making double the stuff, suddenly twice as many people will need to buy those things, right?

Make this make sense to me.

Don't you think people in China and India would like to drink bottled water or drive SUV's just like Americans?

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Yes, I am sure that without considering feeding, clothing, and housing themselves and their families, all they think about is driving SUVs and drinking bottled water. You did not mean that to be serious did you?

I work in the construction industry...

I could never imagine a 40 hr work week....nothing would get done.

I myself work 50-60 hrs a week...yet i feel I need more time to get things done.

maybe a data-entry job would be more productive...but any job that carries responsibility...forget it..

If you get paid by the job, and there are those industries that do,,ie car mechanics, HVAC service guys..etc, how do I cover the needs of my business.

If I run a small store, and you get everything done in 4 hrs out of an 8 hr shift scheduled...who covers the store and meets the needs of my customers?

If I run a restuarant, and you cook all the steaks allocated for the dinner rush, do I send you home? What happens when the busload of unexpected tourists show up?

What happens when I see that you can produce 40 hrs of units in 20 hrs... and all I need to make a profit is turn 32 hours of unit production...so I schedule you 16 hrs ?

If as a small business owner I have made my sales for the day by 12 noon, and send the guy home that over produced and pay him for his 8 hrs work in 6 hrs.... will you come in to cover the rest of the hours we are left open? Do I close my doors as I have made my projections and turn away business....will they seek me again not knowing if I will be open or not?

As a business manager, your biggest controllable expense is labor/payroll. I have to pay refridgeration, cooling/heating...lights..but I can ammend the schedule.

If costs go up on items produced in 20 hrs instead of 40 hrs to cover the shortfall in pay, (cut hours make twice as much)...then won't you need more hours to pay for the stuff?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
"Give stuff away and cover it with increased productivity"...2x20 schedules =1x40hr schedule. Where is the increase in productivity? 40 hrs =40 hrs.

Yes 40 hrs = 40 hrs

Productivity gains comes from technology improvements and workers who work harder, faster and better than before. (Increased Morale)

where does the free solar cells come from? Who digs the free geothermal wells? Who produces and builds the free water turbines and installs them? Who provides the free maintainance and replacement parts?

20 hours a week in labor

What employer is going to double salaries and pay 40 hrs wages for 20 hrs worth of work? Then double his/her payroll and overhead to get 40 hrs worth of production?

An employer that wants to continue his contract with the federal government or an employer that engages in inter-state commerce.

If you produce 400 units in 40 hrs with one person, why get 2 people with 2x20 hr shifts to produce 400 units?

With same logic applied.

Why not get one person to work 80 hours to produce 80 units?

If production is going to go up...how?

Magic

Just kidding

... if the market dictates 400 units, then that is all I need...if demand goes up, then I hire another person for a 40 hr shift...not 2 more people for 2x20 hr shifts...unless I can do it with a reduction in wages and classify them as part-time.... which defeats the whole premise of your 20hr week theory.

Where did you come up with your 40 hour a week belief?

I mean seriously, you have mentioned 40 hours a week several times.

Why do you believe that a person must work 40 hours a week?

A good example is Walmart... hardly any full time 40hr week people there.

Do you really want that model of industry?

Whats wrong with Walmart?

They have done wonders to improve efficiency.

The only change I would make is 1099 all Walmart employees and all benifits come from the government.