MV Rachel Corrie being boarded NOW

Originally posted by hungrydirt
reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

I absolutely do. To say though that Hitler did not incinerate Jews, old and young, for ulterior motives outside of the economy and popular sentiment however, would be untrue.

He had his self-hatred, but it was a means to an end, not something that drove everything. Power and wealth drove everything. I it was hate and a grudge the other groups would have been left alone.

reply to post by D377MC


I've actually never asserted that there isn't a more grand conspiracy unfolding in the West Bank. All I was trying to do was garner a more informed, objective response to the current situation from posters.

reply to post by hungrydirt


Sorry then, my fault for skimming the thread.

Just heard on Aljazeera that in Gaza Hamas is NOT going to let ANY of the goods that were on the first ship that was attacked, and blood was spilled, into Gaza.They said they did not want it now because it was "Blood Tainted". How stupid is this? Organized religion is going to finish off this world if people don't wake up and see it for what it is, a control mechanism, for the powers that be. They are going to let the lives of these 9 people serve no purpose. Hell, everything that comes in in some way is blood, sweat and emotional stains on it. Hell, take this stuff, rebuild your country....Dam the religion rederick right now.Hell, if you have to calm your mind, say a prayer over it, bless it, and USE it......If Hamas still says that it isn't going to let the goods in tell them that your bringing your families and your going to move in with them. They probably have nice brick built homes with plenty of room.......

Originally posted by Caji316
Just heard on Aljazeera that in Gaza Hamas is NOT going to let ANY of the goods that were on the first ship that was attacked, and blood was spilled, into Gaza.They said they did not want it now because it was "Blood Tainted". How stupid is this? Organized religion is going to finish off this world if people don't wake up and see it for what it is, a control mechanism, for the powers that be. They are going to let the lives of these 9 people serve no purpose. Hell, everything that comes in in some way is blood, sweat and emotional stains on it. Hell, take this stuff, rebuild your country....Dam the religion rederick right now.Hell, if you have to calm your mind, say a prayer over it, bless it, and USE it......If Hamas still says that it isn't going to let the goods in tell them that your bringing your families and your going to move in with them. They probably have nice brick built homes with plenty of room.......

It's not stupid, it's ruthless and rather effective. Read my previous post and it might make sense..... who controls Hamas?

reply to post by D377MC


I have read many blogs/articles claiming what you are implying and I must admit I find it plausible, but for the sake of objectivity, can we not go into conspiracy theories to defend one's belief?

[edit on 0101:6 5/06 by Charly111]

Originally posted by Caji316
Just heard on Aljazeera .......

And I "just heard on such and such" .... a video or print source would help... and even after that it would still need to be verified from other sources.... sources like Hamas themselves.

reply to post by backwherewestarted


dont forget... The worst teeth on the planet. 90% could chew through a pepsi can without incident!

I think this is a good example of cameras keeping people honest, and an advantage of modern technology giving people a view from all over the planet, enabling them to respond accordingly.
We are truly living in a "live coverage" world, for better or worse, and I say better in this case.
Thanks for the post!
Peace

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


Until communications are jammed.

It is pretty easy to point fingers at either party in the age-old palestinian / Israel debate.

Just play it out in your own head and try to be objective. Lets say the U.N. decided that a huge chunk of your country will now be forfeited to a minority group without that countries say-so. So they move in but then decide to build walls and start occupying space that was not initially part of the deal.

All the sudden you are going to the grocery store down the street but it is blockaded. Bulldozers are tearing down your neighborhood and armed soldiers are threatening anyone from trying to stop them. Over the years it gets worse and thousands are turned homeless and poverty is running rampant.

A group forms that has had enough and pledges to stop this inhumanity before it destroys their people. Of course the people will want that kind of protection. Someone willing to fight the "man". So they responds with "terror" attacks because they would be retarded to go up against this invading nation which in turn is supplied by the worlds largest military.

Now every time this rich nation is Retaliated against for their transgression against these poor people who are fighting for their right to live it is spun to be "anti-semite" and undeserved for this peace loving occupier. After all they only plow schools , bomb commercial districts, and treat their neighbors like a roach infestation. Surely, these people should not be able to defend themselves from this great humanitarian nation of Israel.

Israel on the other hand has good reason to be afraid. Every nation surrounding them has wanted their nation to wither. They should be on the lookout, but taking over territories forcefully and with impunity is not helping their cause. It is only making it worse for them. Just like policing the Middle East is doing for American popularity there. They will only end up hating us more.

Long story short. You can call Hamas a "terrorist" organization just as well as you can call Israel one. Just because one doesn't worship "Allah" and condones jihad doesn't make its actions any less of a form of terror. Terrorism isn't bound by religion or by race. It is by hatred, actions, and intent.

Why can we do air raids on a country and it not be terrorism? Because our weapons are more advanced? Well shame on the others for not having the billions we spend as a "civilized" society to blows us up with.

As I think about it more and more it is hard not to condone any act of war between two countries with such a spread in power as not being terrorism.
Whether it be rickets or tank , air raids to IEDs in truth they are terrorizing each other and convincing us they both have good intentions.

reply to post by Mr Objectivity


Good point!
That is kind of like shooting oneself in the foot though, because that action only draws more criticism and leaves room for crazy accusative conjectures.
True though, if they don't want something seen, they can still control it, but it is tougher to hide these days, imo, until they start jamming you tube

Peace

[edit on 5-6-2010 by speculativeoptimist]

this by far, is the most undeniable, credible and honest account of what went down on the flotilla's.

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim
reply to post by BillRose

 

There is great irony in accusing those who disagree with you of 'hate' and 'mental laziness' when you are essentially dismissing opposing arguments with a wave of the hand. I happen to disagree with you but I've supported my perspective with concrete facts. I strongly oppose Israeli policy but I am not 'anti-Israel'. Frankly I find it rude and condescending that so many members feel comfortable dismissing my carefully thought out perspective by accusing everyone critical of Israeli policy of unmitigated hatred. Further, doing so harms the overall dialog. There are reasoned people on both sides of the debate and it's short-sighted to think that short-changing the ones who happen to disagree with you here is going to result in more clarity of discussion.

Clearly you are having a knee jerk reaction to what I posted. You have let your emotions guide your post.

I stated in a previous post, one you cite, that I have an open mind to a different arguement and am willing to change my mind when presented with legitimate facts that are contrary to what has been presented.

So far all I have seen from a MAJORITY (not necessarily you) is that Isreal is wrong for EVERYTHING she does. Period. They should just die.

Not direct quotes but close.

All of the so called facts that have been presented to my by the "blockade runners" side have been flimsy, or with large portions of evidence left out. Period.

What I get from this incident is that this ONE ship of a floatilla of six wanted to cause trouble for Israel. There were a group of people on board the ship (not all) that wanted to confront the Israeli commandos as soon as they set foot on the ship with the intent of killing as many of the commandos as possible. These men that attacked the commandos knew that their primary weapons would be paint ball guns thus giving them the ability to close with their enemy and inflict harm. Even being able to steal a few of the commandos side arms and use the guns against them.

These attackers knew that they were going to eventually be shot at. It appears that is what they wanted in the first place. They know what the response would be from the Israelies. Hence the gas masks and bullet proof vests.

Now, as for the "illegal" blockade. If it were so illegal as MANY here claim then why is Egypt assisting the Isrealies with the enforcement of it? This is a LARGE point many here miss when they insist that it is illegal. Again, if it were an illegal blockade I am more than certain that there would be some sort of legitimate forceable response from other countries to end the blockade.

Now about the intellectual lazyness comment of which you are upset with me about, I don't direct this at you per se as you are trying to have a honest conversation with me and whomever else you think disagrees with you and I respect that. You may not change my mind but I am open to your point of veiw.

That comment I made was directed towards those people that claim they wish that the Israeli commandos would all have been killed or that some how what Isreal did was illegal or that they are pirates on international waters, or the people fighting the commandos were unarmed... ect, ect. You know the posts of wich I speak. The ones filled with abject hatred for Isreal for ANYTHING she does.

Those people are full of hate that are lazy and just let their anger take control.

I am sorry if I offended you but that is just how I feel.

Ahmadinejad described the Israeli navy's attack on the Gaza-bound Freedom Flotilla, which left several activists dead, as a sign that the regime has lost its "common sense."

here is a madman rcognizing another. takes one to know one, as the saying goes. and they both are.

www.sott.net...

reply to post by Skellon

Thanks for the links. Lots of reading/educating of myself thanks to informed people such as yourself.

On the first link I found this...In 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, which stated that the government viewed favourably "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" but "that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". The Declaration was issued as a result of the belief of key members of the government, including Prime Minister Lloyd George, that Jewish support was essential to winning the war; however, the declaration caused great disquiet in the Arab world.[11] After the war, the area came under British rule as the British Mandate of Palestine. The area mandated to the British included what is today Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza.

In same link I found this...Jewish immigration to Palestine increased. By 1931, 17 percent of the population of Palestine were Jews, an increase of six percent since 1922.[12] Jewish immigration increased soon after the Nazis came to power in Germany, causing the Jewish population in Palestine to double.[13] Palestinian Arabs saw this rapid influx of Jewish immigrants as a threat to their homeland and their identity as a people. Moreover, Jewish policies of purchasing land and prohibiting the employment of Arabs in Jewish-owned industries and farms greatly angered the Palestinian Arab communities.[14] Demonstrations were held as early as 1920, protesting what the Arabs felt were unfair preferences for the Jewish immigrants set forth by the British mandate that governed Palestine at the time. This resentment led to outbreaks of violence.

From the start to what is in the news today is child being neglected of discipline by parent, IMHO.

Has the State of Israel ever humbled herself and extended gratitude toward the British Government for enabling her to even have a land to call their own? Now, I'm off to learn when, and why has America allowed herself to become a stepping-stone/doormat to this nation of "hooray for us and screw everyone else."

Originally posted by hungrydirt

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by hungrydirt

 

The topic of this thread isn't about history.
Enlightened yet?

I feel very sorry for you. History has e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g to do with what is taking shape in the Middle East currently. I would be shocked to find many people that would agree with your assertion.

I agree with your assertion hungrydirt.

These men that attacked the commandos knew that their primary weapons would be paint ball guns thus giving them the ability to close with their enemy and inflict harm.

reply to post by BillRose


a former U.S. ambassador saw nothing wrong with trying to defend, yes DEFEND, a ship that was under attack, yes under ATTACK, in international waters. would you like me to post where they have been heard to be backpedaling on their stance? because they were wrong! why didnt they attack/board the rachel corrie in the international waters as well? because they now they were wrong. every report coming in outside of israel is to the contrary of israel's. how about a partial international investigation? ohh thats right everyone hates you, even though the ones you accuse of hate have made it possible for you to even survive. also what does that say about you, if most americans apparently hate you but you still have no problem taking americans money in aid/welfare every single year?

Yeah, this is such ground breaking news! ROFL

who cares?