You’ve All Heard Of The Berlin Airlift.... But

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Here’s something the fascist swine you call public school history teachers don’t cover in their communist indoctrination classes:

It's odd that you'll label the public school system fascist while then labeling history teachers as communists. I could go into the argument of the plight of teachers at various levels of education and their requirements for teaching various topics but I digress.

Textbook publishers want to avoid controversy (so, apparently, do many school systems), so they feed students a white-washed, non-controversial, over-simplified version of this country's history and its most important historical figures.

That is from a reviewer on Amazon for the book Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong

Not only am I outraged at what my country did to these people, I am outraged that this is the first time in my 34 years of life that I have heard about this being done to the German people.

How much time do you remember in your school-age days being focused on the internment of Japanese-Americans? Or the breeding of stronger African-American slaves? Or the 'trail of tears'? You may be interested in A People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present by Howard Zinn, but he's a socialist so you might not be that interested.

This is so disgusting I am at a loss for words.

Have a gander at what this ass-clown proposed; here's the Morgenthau Plan. This guy wanted to wipe out 25,000,000 civilians. Is it sheer coincidence that he was a banker? I think not.

I take a little issue with your idea here. I don't believe that Morgenthau believed his plan would exterminate 25 million civilians, that was a quote from Roosevelt regarding the plan.

According to S. P. MacKenzie, "callous self-interest and a desire for retribution played a role in the fate" of German prisoners...

I would venture a guess that, if anything, Morgenthau was far leaning in his desire for retribution against the Germans. I'm sure a lot of people were, seeing as they were blamed for World War 1 but just two decades later they're seen at fault for World War 2, not to mention the genocide that took place during that time.

Not all people felt this way, as General Patton put it

"I’m also opposed to sending POW’s to work as slaves in foreign lands (in particular, to France) where many will be starved to death.” He also noted “It is amusing to recall that we fought the revolution in defense of the rights of man and the civil war to abolish slavery and have now gone back on both principles”.

This feeling from military and civilian leaders resulted in the more 'humane' Nuremberg trials.

I don't want you to believe that I'm attempting to defend what we did during that time period. I will gladly point out atrocities this nation has done both in the government level and the social level.

To the OP:

Why does this surprise you? The only thing about it that surprises me is that ANY details about it are allowed to "survive" (which means that some people were extremely sloppy in covering their tracks!).

To state the obvious, after the Warren report, nothing related to the US government surprises me anymore!

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Maegnas]

I'm in the UK and my grandfather (who was my most respected and favourite adult) served in the British forces during WWII in what he always called the secret service but we were never able to draw him out further apart from he used to parachute behind enemy lines and was working with the partisans at one point.

He hated anything to do with war, wouldn't have a war film on the tv at all, as he said that they glorified the brutality and horror of what had to be done.

He went into the war as a young chapel going husband and came out an atheist as he always said on the rare occasions we could get anything out of him that any god worth knowing would never allow the stuff that he saw.

One of the things I always found upsetting as an idealistic youngster was that he said that both sides committed atrocities in the war, this was when I and my cousin were talking about what we had learned about concentration camps. He had been there when one (I don't remember which) was opened but he still said that the allies did stuff almost as bad.

Not had much sleep here the past couple of days so not sure what point I'm trying to make and I'm rambling. but this thread just brought back memories for me.

Yep, damn those Americans....damn them all to hell!!!!!!!



Hmmmm.....memories are a bit selective here.

The Soviets didn't release any of their German POWs until 1957. That is, the ones that weren't executed outright, or died mining coal or in a logging camp in Siberia.

Funny that's not brought up here. Just how horrible the US and UK were.

So much for "Denying Ignorance". I guess it's easier just to cherry-pick history.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Have a gander at what this ass-clown proposed; here's the Morgenthau Plan. This guy wanted to wipe out 25,000,000 civilians. Is it sheer coincidence that he was a banker? I think not.

Uh, no, it's not. Sorry about that.

The Morgenthau Plan was to take away Germany's ability to wage war and pretty much turn it into a giant farming community. Hoover said that they only way they could do that was to exterminate or move out 25,000,000 civilians. So, the plan was dropped.

It wasn't a plan to exterminate civilians. Get the facts straight.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
1,300,000 Allied controlled German POWs are listed as missing.

And where are you getting that figure?

Please don't tell me from "Other Losses".

en.wikipedia.org...

Opps. Looks like the author, James Bacque, fudged the numbers a little and presented some shoddy research.

Its kind of sad, really (in my opinion), that none of this is taught in our (American) schools. All we receive is this cookie-cutter fairy tale image of WWII (let alone everything else). It wasn't really until college that I had a teacher dare tell me something different than what the public school system had shoved down my throat for 12 years (and that was about the Civil War).

I don't understand why people find it so hard to believe that their country might have done something wrong during a war. Every country does something wrong during a war, no one is excluded from this (I'm not talking about just WWII here).

I don't think that we as a species will ever make it very far if we never learn to accept things that happened in the past, learn from them, and move on.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
I want a German civilian Holocaust memorial stuck in the middle of the White House front lawn.

Every day the president of this criminal country wakes up, he should have to look out his window and see a reminder of the genocidal actions our criminal government engaged in.

Every time a photo-op takes place on the White House grounds, the press should have to see an image of a starving German child staring them in the face.

Every time a visitor comes to greet the president, they should get to see a reminder of just how evil and criminal our government is.

Geez, Louise, your "rage" against the US is pretty funny. As I said, you seem to be cherry picking your history lessons.

Try this on for size:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

web.archive.org...://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Krieg/Nemmersdorf.html (this is in German)

Yeah, I'm willing to bet that the Allies weren't really playing with kid gloves on after the war, but you seem to completely forget how the Soviets treated the German POWs and Civilians.

Try reading "Armageddon: The Battle for Germany 1944-45" Max Hastings.

The real history of the 20th century is a fascinating, but morbid, subject. The problem is that this history is not, for the most part, taught in high school or college--even if you are a history major, much is left out.

This is by design. Immediately after the first World War, the Carnegie Foundation, in coordination with the Ford Foundation and the Rockerfeller Foundation, decided that the "value system" of the American public needed to be reshaped. After due consideration and committe study, it was determined that the best way to accomplish this was through the education system--specifically the history departments at all the major universities.

For details, see the 1982 interview with Norman Dodds, who was in charge of the Senate investigative committee into the un-American activities of these major Foundations in 1954--an investigation which never saw the light of day because it was quashed at the highest levels. Dodds gave the interview six months before he died, and at a time when he was out of the political gama and had no agenda to push.

www.youtube.com...

Although there is much more to the interview, he disclosed that the Carnegie Foundation set out to find the brightest undergraduate and graduate minds in the field of history, which were then given a special scholarship to study in England, where they were indoctrinated into the "value system" they wanted them to have.

About 20 young historians were then given a grant to re-write the definitive history of the United States, which a view to inculcating this new value system. Afterwards, they formed the American Historical Society, which became the defacto authority on all historical subjects. All textbooks used in American schools have to have this organization's stamp of approval.

This Society, which still receives its funding from the major Foundations, and is thus controlled by those foundations, is still the authority on all things historical, and has thus had the ability to "filter" all historical information regarding Americal Society and its international affairs. That is why you have never heard of these atrocities in your 34 years of existence on this earth. Its part of the hidden history that has been filtered out.

Of course, non-establishment historical works have been written which document the hidden history, but these are not taught at the universities, and require extra-cirricular research. The internet has opened a lot of this up to lay readers, who otherwise arent prone to searching for rare books in library shelves.

The so-called charitable foundations and other NGOs (non-governmental organizations) are actually the hidden puppet masters who pull the strings in our society. They currently controll about 12 trillion in assets, and fund all of the think tanks that write the legislation that is then given a rubber stamp by Congress. Do you think our dear representatives and senators had the time to write the 2000 page health care bill, or the 2000-3000 page financial reform bill that is currently before Congress? Nope. These pages are written by NGO think tanks--and then handed to Congress on a silver platter for minor political adjustments and rubber stamp approval.

Like the hidden history, the NGOs represent the hidden shadow government. And guess who they serve? The megawealthy who set them up and who still control them through the Wall Street Lawyers that serve on their boards.

Btw, General Patton was infuriated at the treatment of the Germans by the Allies after WWII, and raised a big stink about it with his superiors. Basically, he refused to cooperate in the slaughter of the German citizens, who were being starved and worked to death after the war. That is the reason he was publically disgraced and possibly killed.



[edit on 6-6-2010 by Angiras]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Angiras]

reply to post by signal2noise


You keep pointing out attrocities committed by the Russians as if this somehow pertains to this topic at all.

The Russians were a bunch of communist totalitarian dirt bags.

Everyone knows what they did.

What the people don't know is that US policy after the war caused the death of 3 million German civilians needlessly.

What the people don't know is that the Treasury Secretary proposed a plan to level the German cities into farm land.

What the people don't know is that their government enslaved German children.

If you want to talk about Russian war crimes, start your own thread.




[edit on 6-6-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
You keep pointing out attrocities committed by the Russians as if this somehow pertains to this topic at all.

I dunno, I just have this thing about history being viewed from all sides, not just one.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
The Russians were a bunch of communist totalitarian dirt bags.

Everyone knows what they did.

Yeah, but here on ATS, it seems like everyone just loves to bring up any crime the Allies (especially the US) did during WW2, while forgetting anything that Axis did, simply because "everyone knows what they did".

I know that not everyone knows of the massacre of civilians in Eastern Prussia.

Or how about this little factoid:

en.wikipedia.org...

After the Communists left East Germany, they did a little digging there. Found the bodies of 12,500 people, mostly elderly, teenagers and kids.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by signal2noise


Russian war crimes have no bearing on American war crimes.

If you want to talk about Russian war crimes, start your own topic.

There's lots to talk about.

They were some evil savages.

double post


[edit on 6-6-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by signal2noise
Yep, damn those Americans....damn them all to hell!!!!!!!

Hmmmm.....memories are a bit selective here.

The Soviets didn't release any of their German POWs until 1957. That is, the ones that weren't executed outright, or died mining coal or in a logging camp in Siberia.

Funny that's not brought up here. Just how horrible the US and UK were.

So much for "Denying Ignorance". I guess it's easier just to cherry-pick history.

Speaking as one of German descent, whose Grandfather never returned from Stalingrad, it was the Allies who went in painted as the forces of good. Never mind the Russians, what is expected of the Americans is that they took the high road. That fervent hope extends to this day.

That explains why this revelation is a disappointment to so many.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


It should be a wake up call. After all, WWII was supposed to be the "righteous war", when America still had some degree of innocence and a desire to do good. But now we see, in hindsight, that those who made the decisions (at the end of the war) were as bad as Hitler or Stalin, while hiding behind sanctimonious masks.

Unfortunately, those in positions of power, who pull the strings, havent improved since then--they have gotten worse, and if you think for a second that they would hesitate to sacrifice or slaughter millions to achieve their goals, then you may have a rude awakening coming.